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Thread: Please say I'm not the only one...

  1. #1
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    Default Please say I'm not the only one...

    teaching Fourth Form on my own at home! Has anyone else done this? Online classes are not an option for us until high school for financial reasons, but it seems like that is the route most take for 4FL. I've worked through the first 5 lessons so far on my own in preparation for starting, and for some reason it just feels harder than TFL. I think it might be the massive recitation at the beginning of the guide, along with the lengthy Henle translations.

    How do you manage to get all the way through recitation? It is just so long by now that it takes FOREVER. I feel like I'm losing my voice by the end (and yes, we do break it up but each day's portion is still very long, plus grammar questions, plus vocab drills, etc).

    Have any of you successfully taught through all the forms yourself? Any tips for the process? We've made it this far, so we can do it, right??? Please reassure me !
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    I taught my son Fourth Form and we struggled through (no DVD either). Honestly, we didnít do Recitation. Should have. Would have been better to. But didnít. He then took Henle 2 with the online class andcearned an A.
    Iím in the middle of Fourth Form with my next one and its hard. We usually take six days per lesson. We still donít do Recitation. It got too hard for me without a list of actual words to say. I couldnít remember all the forms and flipping around to find them was too much. Oh well. We drill flashcards and do the drill sheets. It gets easier. The later lessons are pretty easy with the new material. Itís those Henle translations and reading passages that take us so long. So we just slowly muddle through.
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 23, graphic design and illustration major
    DS, 21, mechanical engineering major
    DS, 19, Dual chemistry and Philosophy major, considering Catholic seminary
    DS, 16, Kolbe 11th grade
    DD, 13, dyslexic, MP 8M
    DS, 10, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 5A
    DD, 4 (in Aug 2017), cutest little interrupter of school ever, some MP Jr K if we fit it in.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    How do you manage to get all the way through recitation? It is just so long by now that it takes FOREVER.
    Hello Angela,

    First of all, you've got this! You made it through the prior three Forms and you can make it through this last one. The challenge of 4FL is not so much forms but syntax and translation. We are really beginning to shift from the "grammar stage" of Latin to the "logic stage."

    For recitation, the massive review of all forms from FFL-TFL should only be required in it's entirety once, at the very beginning of the year. After that, you can begin to modify the review. For example, perhaps recite only the 1st and 3rd conjugation one week, and only the 2nd and 4th the next. Beginning in Lesson 11, only a small review section will be assigned each week.

    For translations, as always, it is better to go slowly and methodically, even if it means skipping parts of some exercises. With practice, translation fluency will increase. Just hang in there!
    Michael
    Memoria Press

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Quote Originally Posted by momgineer View Post
    I taught my son Fourth Form and we struggled through (no DVD either). Honestly, we didnít do Recitation. Should have. Would have been better to. But didnít. He then took Henle 2 with the online class andcearned an A.
    Iím in the middle of Fourth Form with my next one and its hard. We usually take six days per lesson. We still donít do Recitation. It got too hard for me without a list of actual words to say. I couldnít remember all the forms and flipping around to find them was too much. Oh well. We drill flashcards and do the drill sheets. It gets easier. The later lessons are pretty easy with the new material. Itís those Henle translations and reading passages that take us so long. So we just slowly muddle through.
    So glad to hear this! We're not using the DVDs either, which I was hesitant to admit since we already seem so odd. It's nice to hear that it gets easier. I've been so impressed by each Form and just love this series! I guess I'm just getting "syllabus shock" or something since 4FL is slightly different in appearance and layout (very slightly! nothing major).
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael View Post
    Hello Angela,

    First of all, you've got this! You made it through the prior three Forms and you can make it through this last one. The challenge of 4FL is not so much forms but syntax and translation. We are really beginning to shift from the "grammar stage" of Latin to the "logic stage."

    For recitation, the massive review of all forms from FFL-TFL should only be required in it's entirety once, at the very beginning of the year. After that, you can begin to modify the review. For example, perhaps recite only the 1st and 3rd conjugation one week, and only the 2nd and 4th the next. Beginning in Lesson 11, only a small review section will be assigned each week.

    For translations, as always, it is better to go slowly and methodically, even if it means skipping parts of some exercises. With practice, translation fluency will increase. Just hang in there!
    Whew! For some reason I thought we had to keep doing the full recitation every week and I couldn't figure out how to squeeze that in without overly fatiguing ourselves. This is good news! My dd will be relieved.

    Thanks for the encouragement! I hope the translation gets easier. I'm probably worrying more about it than I should, but my dd has always dreaded translation and this level will be quite the step up in that department. We'll take your advice and go slowly and methodically.

    I'll probably be back here next year saying how 4FL ended up being great but stressing out over Henle II . At least it will feel like such an accomplishment to have done all the forms. It feels like we're really close to the finish line now!
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

  6. #6
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    Sep 2009
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    My daughter finished Third Form last year after starting the year before. We had time to do two units of Fourth Form and we plan to finish Fourth this year (9th grade). When we finish we will start into Henle 2 on our own. My older son did Henle 2 online (his first online Latin class) but this daughter needs more accommodations than an online class can offer so we will go it alone. Solidarity! We can be each otherís FF buddies and Henle 2 buddies next year.
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 23, graphic design and illustration major
    DS, 21, mechanical engineering major
    DS, 19, Dual chemistry and Philosophy major, considering Catholic seminary
    DS, 16, Kolbe 11th grade
    DD, 13, dyslexic, MP 8M
    DS, 10, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 5A
    DD, 4 (in Aug 2017), cutest little interrupter of school ever, some MP Jr K if we fit it in.

  7. #7
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    Jul 2014
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    315

    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    I'm bringing this up again because I have a question. How much of the workbook exercises should a typical Fourth Form student do? There are the workbook pages, the long Henle readings, and then there are the Honors Exercises. I guess I want someone in authority to tell me the exact "right" amount I should be assigning . How much do MPOA students complete? HLS students? What is the normal expectation for these?

    We have always done every single portion of the workbooks, but now that is starting to seem like an impractical ideal with the workload increasing in other subjects as well. I want to prioritize Latin and would even consider dropping something else if needed (grammar? First Form Greek?). Or is it okay to do half of some of the translation exercises and not always do the Honors work?
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I'm bringing this up again because I have a question. How much of the workbook exercises should a typical Fourth Form student do? There are the workbook pages, the long Henle readings, and then there are the Honors Exercises. I guess I want someone in authority to tell me the exact "right" amount I should be assigning . How much do MPOA students complete? HLS students? What is the normal expectation for these?

    We have always done every single portion of the workbooks, but now that is starting to seem like an impractical ideal with the workload increasing in other subjects as well. I want to prioritize Latin and would even consider dropping something else if needed (grammar? First Form Greek?). Or is it okay to do half of some of the translation exercises and not always do the Honors work?
    Good morning Angela,

    The "right" amount will vary from student to student and throughout the academic year. Fourth Form continues the emphasis, begun near the end of Third Form, on translation. How much translating can successfully be done by a student at any time during the year will vary (hopefully by increasing). It is absolutely fine to assign fewer translations but expect them to be done slowly and well, e.g., parsing each word (Mensam is feminine accusative singular."), analyzing each word's role ("This word is accusative, so it's probably the direct object or an object of a preposition. Do I see a preposition nearby?"), and taking time to understand why the correct answer is correct ("How is Mary the indirect object? Oh! I forgot that -ae can be genitive or dative singular."). As the year goes on and fluency increases, add back more of the translations. Translating is hard, but it is not impossible. Students must simply practice, practice, practice. The inclusion of so many translations is to provide this practice, not to burn out students or force them to rush. Finally, the "Honors/Extra Practice" exercises should be used as (A) additional work for an exceptionally strong student, or (B) additional practice on a specific aspect of Latin with which a student struggles. If neither of those apply, skip them!

    Does that help?
    Michael
    Memoria Press

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    That does help, Michael, thanks! Translation has felt especially difficult to my daughter. Her mastery of vocabulary and grammar forms is great, but applying those to actual sentences has been a challenge. She is used to getting all of her Latin exercises correct, but this year she has had mistakes in almost every sentence. I think the main thing is for her to slow down and pay attention to every single word. I think I will assign fewer but expect her to spend the same amount of time just perfecting the sentences she is doing.
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    That does help, Michael, thanks! Translation has felt especially difficult to my daughter. Her mastery of vocabulary and grammar forms is great, but applying those to actual sentences has been a challenge. She is used to getting all of her Latin exercises correct, but this year she has had mistakes in almost every sentence. I think the main thing is for her to slow down and pay attention to every single word. I think I will assign fewer but expect her to spend the same amount of time just perfecting the sentences she is doing.
    You're welcome! Learning to translate, like learning to ride a bicycle, involves a lot of falling down and getting back up. Let each "crash" be a learning opportunity. You may want to remind her how hard it was to regularly recite her declensions correctly, or to regularly solve for X correctly, or (if she's musical) to regularly play a recital piece correctly. Translating is a new skill, and it will take time, but she's been given the tools she needs to be successful. She just needs to practice, trusting that just as previous mountains in her life were eventually climbed, so too will this mountain be climbed.
    Michael
    Memoria Press

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Please say I'm not the only one...

    Love it! Thanks. Those illustrations are helpful and will build her confidence.
    2018/2019
    Dd 12: MP 7A and First Form Greek
    Ds 10: MP 5M
    Ds 5: MP K

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