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Intro and High School

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    Intro and High School

    Hello! We're new to MP, but not to classical education. We just completed our 13th year of homeschooling! Our oldest is almost 17 and is graduating next year from a classical homeschooling program. Here's what I'm thinking for the rest of my kids for the 2017-2018 school year:

    14 year old daughter - I'm not sure! She's the one I have questions about!

    10 year old son (adopted from China at age 4) - MP Core 3, he'll be completing the state study and CC studies over one year. Latin - English form the Roots Up cards.

    6 year old son (adopted at age 4) - Undecided

    4 year old daughter (adopted at age 2) -SC A - Developmentally delayed, in the process of formal testing.

    2 year old daughter (adopted at 6 months, with us since she was 4 days old) - Tagging along with her 4 yo sister in SC A.

    My biggest dilemma is my 14 year old daughter. She's entering 9th grade. She's moderately dyslexic in reading, spelling, and math. She has difficulties with comprehension and composition. She's strong willed! She's very creative. We joined a co-op for next year. She'll be taking choir, drama, photography, world geography, physical science, and physical science lab. She struggles with math. She's completed the first two booklets of Key to Fractions and the first half of Teaching Textbooks 6. She strongly dislikes TT and does not feel there is enough review. She did the best with Abeka Mathematics. She can read and comprehend books like The Bronze Bow. She enjoyed the book, therefore she applied herself. She does not like to read and avoids it at all costs. She's capable of writing, but avoids it at all costs as well. She's been very difficult to educate. She asks to go to school from time to time. She thinks homeschooling has caused her to be behind. Her father and I feel her attitude is her biggest obstacle to learning.

    She really dislikes schooling. She does not see the point since she feels the majority of what she learns she will not use later in life. She and I have been discussing this. After our conversation I read a post where Cheryl Swope listed questions to ask your child. We had a conversation similar to that. It seemed to go well. She has not been pushing school for the past few days.

    I'm not sure where to go from here with her. She has 4 years left! I thought 8th grade would be a year of moving forward academically. It was not. Thankfully, she has grown in her faith! I would appreciate any thoughts about using MP for high school. I was thinking about Core 8, but am concerned it will be too much for her to keep up with. Math and composition are concerns as well. I was contemplating IEW SWI B and Fix It! Grammar Book 2. She completed Book 1 this year and it went well. I'm concerned IEW won't get done since it will take a lot of my time. She has a difficult time with grammar concepts. She speaks well and has a great vocabulary. She has a difficult time with writing a paragraph (topic sentence, supporting details, etc.), outlining, getting her thoughts down on paper, etc. She completed most of Prima Latina last year. She would like to drop Latin and take Spanish for two years.

    We have a busy household. I'm concerned about too many mom intensive materials.

    This is my second attempt at this message! My first disappeared. Maybe it will show up at some point! I would really appreciate your thoughts on my daughter!

    Angela
    God Bless,

    Angela

    DS 16: graduating from MODG in Spring 2018
    DD 14: 9th grade
    DS 10: 4th grade
    DS 6: 1st grade
    DD 4: SC A
    DD 2: tagging along in SC A, for fun!

    #2
    Re: Intro and High School

    Originally posted by AJM View Post
    This is my second attempt at this message! My first disappeared. Maybe it will show up at some point! I would really appreciate your thoughts on my daughter!
    Welcome to the forum! I'm sure you will receive wonderful advice soon. In the meantime, I wanted to let you know that I have made sure this post is visible and have hidden the old "duplicate" post so all feedback you receive is in one place.

    HTH!
    Michael
    Memoria Press

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Intro and High School

      Michael,

      Thank you! Where can I find the duplicate post? It's not showing on my end. I'm clicking on different posts and I keep receiving errors. Very strange.

      Angela
      God Bless,

      Angela

      DS 16: graduating from MODG in Spring 2018
      DD 14: 9th grade
      DS 10: 4th grade
      DS 6: 1st grade
      DD 4: SC A
      DD 2: tagging along in SC A, for fun!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Intro and High School

        Originally posted by AJM View Post
        Michael,

        Thank you! Where can I find the duplicate post? It's not showing on my end. I'm clicking on different posts and I keep receiving errors. Very strange.

        Angela
        That is odd that you are receiving error messages when viewing posts, as the forum should be working fine now. Can you email a screenshot of the error to michael@memoriapress.com?
        Michael
        Memoria Press

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Intro and High School

          Originally posted by AJM View Post
          Hello! We're new to MP, but not to classical education. We just completed our 13th year of homeschooling! Our oldest is almost 17 and is graduating next year from a classical homeschooling program. Here's what I'm thinking for the rest of my kids for the 2017-2018 school year:

          14 year old daughter - I'm not sure! She's the one I have questions about!

          10 year old son (adopted from China at age 4) - MP Core 3, he'll be completing the state study and CC studies over one year. Latin - English form the Roots Up cards.

          6 year old son (adopted at age 4) - Undecided

          4 year old daughter (adopted at age 2) -SC A - Developmentally delayed, in the process of formal testing.

          2 year old daughter (adopted at 6 months, with us since she was 4 days old) - Tagging along with her 4 yo sister in SC A.

          My biggest dilemma is my 14 year old daughter. She's entering 9th grade. She's moderately dyslexic in reading, spelling, and math. She has difficulties with comprehension and composition. She's strong willed! She's very creative. We joined a co-op for next year. She'll be taking choir, drama, photography, world geography, physical science, and physical science lab. She struggles with math. She's completed the first two booklets of Key to Fractions and the first half of Teaching Textbooks 6. She strongly dislikes TT and does not feel there is enough review. She did the best with Abeka Mathematics. She can read and comprehend books like The Bronze Bow. She enjoyed the book, therefore she applied herself. She does not like to read and avoids it at all costs. She's capable of writing, but avoids it at all costs as well. She's been very difficult to educate. She asks to go to school from time to time. She thinks homeschooling has caused her to be behind. Her father and I feel her attitude is her biggest obstacle to learning.

          She really dislikes schooling. She does not see the point since she feels the majority of what she learns she will not use later in life. She and I have been discussing this. After our conversation I read a post where Cheryl Swope listed questions to ask your child. We had a conversation similar to that. It seemed to go well. She has not been pushing school for the past few days.

          I'm not sure where to go from here with her. She has 4 years left! I thought 8th grade would be a year of moving forward academically. It was not. Thankfully, she has grown in her faith! I would appreciate any thoughts about using MP for high school. I was thinking about Core 8, but am concerned it will be too much for her to keep up with. Math and composition are concerns as well. I was contemplating IEW SWI B and Fix It! Grammar Book 2. She completed Book 1 this year and it went well. I'm concerned IEW won't get done since it will take a lot of my time. She has a difficult time with grammar concepts. She speaks well and has a great vocabulary. She has a difficult time with writing a paragraph (topic sentence, supporting details, etc.), outlining, getting her thoughts down on paper, etc. She completed most of Prima Latina last year. She would like to drop Latin and take Spanish for two years.

          We have a busy household. I'm concerned about too many mom intensive materials.

          This is my second attempt at this message! My first disappeared. Maybe it will show up at some point! I would really appreciate your thoughts on my daughter!

          Angela

          Welcome, Angela!

          Thanks for posting. You do have a busy household!

          While Michael helps you with the technical difficulties, here are some initial thoughts:



          There are many possible combinations. For high school, I do think you will want a good 9-12 plan, rather than needing to make year-by-year decisions (or negotiations). Even if you decide to change things midway, you will want to create an overview.

          Here is one idea:

          Language Arts

          9th Grade
          Writing, Grammar, & Latin -- Combine
          For her 9th grade year, combine your 14yo daughter and 10yo son to simplify your teaching. Then make a few tweaks.

          In the MP 3 Classical Core, your son would study outlining and composition in IEW ATFF and English grammar in EGR. They could combine for these to give your daughter the basics in grammar and writing with plenty of practice. You want to strive for mastery, mastery, mastery for her confidence and enjoyment. She already indicated a desire for built-in review, as with her preferred math program, so this would be the selling point.

          Recommendation: If you taught English grammar, language, writing, and Latin through the next level of Latin (Latina Christiana I), rather than teaching only vocabulary through the roots program, this might help you in a number of ways. You would be covering grammar, language, writing, and Latin with ecclesiastical studies (prayers, hymns, songs, bits of church history). If you can also persuade her of the truth that Latin will allow her to learn Spanish with infinitely greater ease, she could continue her Latin studies at least through LC 1. LC 1 is now spread out and provides a wonderfully predictable course in which good teaching is always followed by good review. All of this would work together to strengthen her language arts knowledge and abilities for the rest of her life. This would give her a richer classical education and would also consolidate much of your mom-intensive teaching.


          10th Grade
          With a year of ATFF, EGR, and LC 1, she would then be ready for MP Online Foundations for Composition. Here are the grammar requirements. You could make sure she knows and reviews these during her 9th grade year.

          The online academy will help create a healthy distance between her emotional reactions and her studies. Not only will she have accountability, peer companionship in her studies, and a capable teacher, but she will be removed from those default-mode "blaming mom" excuses.

          In 10th, she would continue the second half of LC 1's predictable pattern of teaching & review.

          11th & 12th Grade
          She could progress through the next level of MPOA's writing courses, or you could teach Classical Composition with your then-16yo and 12 yo separately or combined.

          With all of the above, you would add literature with the idea of studying a few books deeply, rather than overloading her with many books. You might choose one or two from MP 5 or MP 6.


          Math
          9th-12th
          Could she return to Abeka math, which she enjoyed? If so, they run through 12th grade, so she would not outpace it.

          If not, she might appreciate the mastery approach inherit in R&S Math. Whichever program you choose, you will want to give her the sense of certainty at the end of each set of lessons. In other words, "Now I KNOW this!"



          What do you see her doing at the end of 12th grade? No matter the answer, you will want her to be strong in knowledge and capable in her ability to communicate. Plan on returning to those questions you asked, so you bring her own mind around to the understanding that an education will benefit her no matter what she does in the future.


          As mentioned before, the above is only one scenario. Another would be to drop the level considerably to allow for more independent work completion. SC 3 American History with SC 3 Writing: Read-aloud edition would give her practice with main idea/details; nouns, verbs, writing adjectives & adverbs; sentence construction, and, by the end, paragraph writing. SC Writing is very incremental and provides daily, doable practice. All of this occurs in the context of learning the people, events, and themes of American studies. She could supplement with NAC Cursive: Famous Americans for penmanship.


          Written Spelling
          Whichever path you choose, she will need to work continually on spelling, even though she is high school age. She might like the progression in Core Skills: Spelling.

          If so, you could supplement any writing program with Core Skills: Language Arts.



          Follow up, and we will try to serve as a sounding board, as you map out the next four years for all of your children!

          Thanks-
          Cheryl

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Intro and High School

            Your daughter shares many qualities with my 14 year old son (he's the one that Cheryl's "questions to ask" post was written about). Have you looked into Smart but Scattered? It's a fantastic book on executive skills struggles and helped us understand our children better. One thing they point out is that if a child continually avoids a task it often points to a hidden struggle with that task. Basically, they end up with little to no confidence in being able to do it so they do everything they can to avoid it.

            When we started full MP last year I was going to put my son in 8th according to his age (with some things pulled from 5th due to needing to start at the beginning of the sequences for Latin, etc.) Instead, I put him in 7th with his brother and it was the best decision we could have made for him. He would not have been ready for MP8 at that point.

            This coming year he will be doing a combination of MP 6, 7 and 8. It will be a challenge expectations-wise, but I know he's ready for that next step. To get to this point, here is the track we followed:

            1. Did Prima (memory/exercises only; no quizzes/tests) and EGR I (all) at 12 years old. I was also showing him how to outline a reading to improve comprehension. The memory work in EGR boosted his confidence (working memory is an issue for him).
            2. Did First Form Latin, EGR II, Geography I (if your daughter is more visual, give her blank maps to fill in and then study from; my son's retention improved greatly when we did that) -- all from MP5; Did Fable Composition from MP3/4; Did Book of Trees/Biology, Literature and Famous Men of Greece from MP7.
            3. He is doing EGR III and Narrative Composition this summer and will continue the Latin and Composition sequence next year (from MP6), do pre-Algegbra (MP7) and do Literature, Novare Earth Science and Classical Studies from MP8. We're holding off on Geography for now and will pick that back up either next summer or in 9th grade.

            First Form was a struggle this year retention-wise so he is taking the First Form review class with MPOA.

            The biggest thing to remember is that MP does not put grade numbers on their books so you can use any book/course that your child needs without them feeling like they're behind. Yes EGR I is usually assigned in 3rd grade but, quite frankly, it doesn't matter. If that is where their grammar knowledge is, then that's what they start with because that is what they need. It's been wonderful and will build her confidence which will eventually lead to less avoidance.

            Definitely look into the executive skills issue though...it helped my son tremendously when I was able to tell him "We're 99% sure this is what is going on. It doesn't give you a pass, but now you know what is going on and can begin to overcome it -- and we're here to help you." It also helped get rid of the "us vs. him" mindset which our children can sense and makes them feel even worse/less interested in overcoming (especially when they don't know there is a bona fide issue in their brain and think that they're just a bad person).

            It's been a tough, long road but he really is overcoming (with the classic 2 steps forward/3 steps back of EF challenges) -- and MP's approach has been a big contributor to that.
            Jennifer
            Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

            2019-2020 Plans:

            DS16
            MP10 Lit, MP-Holt Biology, Light to the Nations II, Spanish
            MPOA: Algebra I, High School Comp II

            DS15
            As above, plus:
            MP Greek Tragedies; no Spanish
            MPOA: Fourth Form Latin

            DS12: 7M subbing Sea to Shining Sea for American history

            DS11: Simply Classical Level 4

            DD9: 3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

            DD7/8: Simply Classical Level 3

            DD 4/5: Simply Classical Level C (NT using SC for two-year PreK due to January birthday)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Intro and High School

              Cheryl,

              Thank you for your response! I tried to do quotes, but when I preview the message they disappear. What you wrote is in blue.

              I agree, I do need a good 9 - 12 plan. I prefer long term planning anyway!


              Language Arts

              9th Grade
              Writing, Grammar, & Latin -- Combine
              For her 9th grade year, combine your 14yo daughter and 10yo son to simplify your teaching. Then make a few tweaks.

              In the MP 3 Classical Core, your son would study outlining and composition in IEW ATFF and English grammar in EGR. They could combine for these to give your daughter the basics in grammar and writing with plenty of practice. You want to strive for mastery, mastery, mastery for her confidence and enjoyment. She already indicated a desire for built-in review, as with her preferred math program, so this would be the selling point.


              I would like to teach these two together, but that's not a possibility. My 10 yo will probably be working through both SC writing books before moving on to Intro. to Classical Comp. or ATFF.

              I like your idea of ATFF for my 14 yo. She'll enjoy the topics since they're different! Using an IEW product will help cement what she learned in Fix It! Grammar last year. Using the core skills books for Language Arts and Spelling is also a great idea. I'm not sure what level of either to start with. Do the 3rd grade books seem young as far as sentences and activities? We'll give EGR a try. Memorization of grammar concepts might help her understanding since they will be more firmly grounded, I hope!

              Recommendation: If you taught English grammar, language, writing, and Latin through the next level of Latin (Latina Christiana I), rather than teaching only vocabulary through the roots program, this might help you in a number of ways. You would be covering grammar, language, writing, and Latin with ecclesiastical studies (prayers, hymns, songs, bits of church history). If you can also persuade her of the truth that Latin will allow her to learn Spanish with infinitely greater ease, she could continue her Latin studies at least through LC 1. LC 1 is now spread out and provides a wonderfully predictable course in which good teaching is always followed by good review. All of this would work together to strengthen her language arts knowledge and abilities for the rest of her life. This would give her a richer classical education and would also consolidate much of your mom-intensive teaching.

              I think we'll continue Latin at a slow pace like you recommend. We'll wrap up Prima Latina and move on to the first half of LCI. What do you mean by covering grammar, language, writing, and Latin with ecclesiastical studies?


              10th Grade
              With a year of ATFF, EGR, and LC 1, she would then be ready for MP Online Foundations for Composition. Here are the grammar requirements. You could make sure she knows and reviews these during her 9th grade year.

              The online academy will help create a healthy distance between her emotional reactions and her studies. Not only will she have accountability, peer companionship in her studies, and a capable teacher, but she will be removed from those default-mode "blaming mom" excuses.


              I completely agree about the online classes. She's taken a few and isn't a big fan. I've talked with her about a writing class being a non-negotiable in the past. I'm sure we'll be having the same conversation next year!

              11th & 12th Grade
              She could progress through the next level of MPOA's writing courses, or you could teach Classical Composition with your then-16yo and 12 yo separately or combined.

              What would the progression of classes look like? Foundations, HS I, then HS II or Senior Thesis?


              Math
              9th-12th
              Could she return to Abeka math, which she enjoyed? If so, they run through 12th grade, so she would not outpace it.


              Yes, she can return to Abeka. My concern is she'll be starting at Arithmetic 4. She'll progress quickly through the level. I'm not sure how to address that on her high school transcript.

              What do you see her doing at the end of 12th grade? No matter the answer, you will want her to be strong in knowledge and capable in her ability to communicate. Plan on returning to those questions you asked, so you bring her own mind around to the understanding that an education will benefit her no matter what she does in the future.

              For the past few years her plan has been to take some time off to travel to various states in a small RV. She's applied for several jobs so she can start saving. She also has her own pet sitting business to help with funding her eventual travel. She would like to build a tiny house on our property and go to college. She's thinking of a degree in interior architecture. She's always been interested in designing interior spaces and decorating. She's very creative and has an eye for that sort of thing! She's also not afraid to get dirty and jump into the tougher architectural work. She'd also like to set up an abused dog rescue, training, and adoption program. She has excellent ideas.


              As mentioned before, the above is only one scenario. Another would be to drop the level considerably to allow for more independent work completion. SC 3 American History with SC 3 Writing: Read-aloud edition would give her practice with main idea/details; nouns, verbs, writing adjectives & adverbs; sentence construction, and, by the end, paragraph writing. SC Writing is very incremental and provides daily, doable practice. All of this occurs in the context of learning the people, events, and themes of American studies. She could supplement with NAC Cursive: Famous Americans for penmanship.

              I think SC writing would be too easy for her. I am contemplating the use of SC 3's read aloud package so she gets reading practice and a great overview of American History. She's very sensitive to things seeming too young. She's tends to be mature for her age. She also tends to feel 'stupid' as she gets older since reading, writing, spelling, and math are so much more difficult for her than other kids her age.

              Follow up, and we will try to serve as a sounding board, as you map out the next four years for all of your children!

              Thanks-
              Cheryl[/QUOTE]

              Again, thank you for your reply! I'm in the process of reading your book. It's wonderful to read something by someone who gets it!

              Angela
              God Bless,

              Angela

              DS 16: graduating from MODG in Spring 2018
              DD 14: 9th grade
              DS 10: 4th grade
              DS 6: 1st grade
              DD 4: SC A
              DD 2: tagging along in SC A, for fun!

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Intro and High School

                Originally posted by AJM View Post
                Cheryl,

                Thank you for your response! ... I agree, I do need a good 9 - 12 plan. I prefer long term planning anyway!

                I would like to teach these two together, but that's not a possibility. My 10 yo will probably be working through both SC writing books before moving on to Intro. to Classical Comp. or ATFF.

                I like your idea of ATFF for my 14 yo. She'll enjoy the topics since they're different! Using an IEW product will help cement what she learned in Fix It! Grammar last year.

                Good!

                Using the core skills books for Language Arts and Spelling is also a great idea. I'm not sure what level of either to start with. Do the 3rd grade books seem young as far as sentences and activities? We'll give EGR a try. Memorization of grammar concepts might help her understanding since they will be more firmly grounded, I hope!


                The Core Skills: LA book 1 looks young inside, but 3 does not. These are great little books, so even if your daughter balked for some reason, you could use it with someone coming up!



                I think we'll continue Latin at a slow pace like you recommend. We'll wrap up Prima Latina and move on to the first half of LCI. What do you mean by covering grammar, language, writing, and Latin with ecclesiastical studies?

                In LC 1, you cover all of these. The ecclesiastical elements include prayers in Latin, songs in Latin, and common sayings in Latin.




                What would the progression of classes look like? Foundations, HS I, then HS II or Senior Thesis?


                If you are interested, they also offer a pre-Foundations course for 1/2 high school credit entitled Composition I.

                Note also the tips under the FAQ about students with special learning needs.

                If she began this year, her progression might look like this:

                Composition I (1/2 high school credit)
                Foundations for Composition (1 high school credit)
                High School Composition I (1 high school credit)
                High School Composition II (1 high school credit) or Senior Thesis, to help her learn to write a research paper (1/2 high school credit)

                If you add an extra year before graduation:
                High School Composition III (1 high school credit) or Senior Thesis, if she has not yet had this (1/2 high school credit)

                Clarify all of this with MPOA. onlineacademy@memoriapress.com.







                Yes, she can return to Abeka. My concern is she'll be starting at Arithmetic 4. She'll progress quickly through the level. I'm not sure how to address that on her high school transcript.

                Given her challenges, it sounds like you will encounter this no matter which program she uses; however, it also sounds as if she does not intend to pursue a math-intensive college program.

                One easy option is to create a transcript by subject, rather than by year. Include only the courses at high school level. A college will want to know which courses she studied prior to entering college, more than which year she studies them. If her 9th & 10th grade years are lower than high school, sometimes they can be 1/2 credit; other times they will need to be omitted from the transcript. You might be able to indicate the remedial status or even a different "track." Check with your own state for requirements or with HSLDA High School for examples. One way to avoid too many "empty" spaces: extend her high school classes by one year.


                Sample to fill in ...


                ____ High School
                2017-20xx

                Foreign Language
                Intro to Latin ( )
                Latin I ( )

                Math
                General Math ( )
                Geometry ( )
                Algebra I ( )

                Composition
                Composition (1/2) A
                Foundations for Composition (1) B
                High School Composition I (1) A
                Senior Thesis (1/2) B



                For the past few years her plan has been to take some time off to travel to various states in a small RV. She's applied for several jobs so she can start saving. She also has her own pet sitting business to help with funding her eventual travel. She would like to build a tiny house on our property and go to college. She's thinking of a degree in interior architecture. She's always been interested in designing interior spaces and decorating. She's very creative and has an eye for that sort of thing! She's also not afraid to get dirty and jump into the tougher architectural work. She'd also like to set up an abused dog rescue, training, and adoption program. She has excellent ideas.

                This is so good to hear!! Pet sitting, working at a shelter, helping to train therapy dogs -- all of these should be in her "leisure time" list right now. Similarly, be sure she studies geometry, drawing, and other design-related subjects during high school.


                I think SC writing would be too easy for her. I am contemplating the use of SC 3's read aloud package so she gets reading practice and a great overview of American History.

                Good! You can obtain only the SC Writing Book Two, American History, Teacher Guide. (I only mention the Teacher Guide, because this will have the answers for any books you do not have time to read.) Conduct the comprehension questions orally, after she has read each book. If all goes well, you will only need to do this once a week. Just require a brief essay, summary, or report, if you do not utilize the writing exercises from each book. Most are in story form, so she can write the beginning, the middle, and the end with at least one key fact or theme in each report. Because she enjoys art, you can alternate a written report one week with one creative display the next. This might be the to-scale interior of the person's home or a painting of a portrait of the individual studied that week.



                Again, thank you for your reply! I'm in the process of reading your book. It's wonderful to read something by someone who gets it!

                Angela

                Thank you! You are well on your way. If you need help with that 6yo, feel free to ask.

                Answers in color above.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Intro and High School

                  Cheryl, I should have added my daughter would like to get her real estate license after she graduates, but before college.

                  Jen1134, I did some research on executive function issues and it doesn't fit my daughter. This really isn't an area where she struggles. It's just a real learning difference. She avoids work that's difficult because it's really difficult! It takes so much effort and she feels dumb because she knows it shouldn't be this hard. I really appreciate you sharing what worked for your son. My almost 17 year old son had many significant executive functioning issues that greatly impacted his schooling. We found a great psychologist that is really more of a life coach. My son responded by becoming much more self-aware which led to him finding and implementing his own solutions to his issues.


                  I'm still working through plans for next year. Thank you for your help!

                  Angela
                  God Bless,

                  Angela

                  DS 16: graduating from MODG in Spring 2018
                  DD 14: 9th grade
                  DS 10: 4th grade
                  DS 6: 1st grade
                  DD 4: SC A
                  DD 2: tagging along in SC A, for fun!

                  Comment

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