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Phonics Advice

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    Phonics Advice

    I am needing ideas for my 6 1/2 year old daughter. We've worked through MP K this year and hit a wall during phonics/reading. We finished enrichment, recitation, bible, math and copybook for K, but have not progressed past FSR book C.

    She has the concepts through book C, and can read the stories, but is still sounding out almost every word. I don't know where to go next.

    Before finding MP I had prepared all of the free Core Knowledge Language Arts units for K. I can work through the second half of those, which would be introducing blends/digraphs before long vowels, and have more hands on work with the words. I'm thinking this might help her have more time to practice with her fluency, but keep moving forward with new skills. She does good work, but does not have much internal motivation to learn to read.

    I have also been looking at jumping into some of the SC plans. I'm doing SC-B with my middle girl who was not ready for Jr. K yet, and I have SC-C also.

    I talked to Michelle T a few weeks ago via email, and we thought a pause and extra practice would help, but I feel like we both need actual plans of some kind to follow. I just don't know if we push forward and start FSR D, switch to the Core Knowledge plans and tackle blends, or look at SC.

    I was hoping to do only reading lessons from now until after 4th of July (about 6 weeks), then start full studies back up. For first grade, we could start the math, copybook, cursive and enrichment, but leave out phonics/spelling. Or would moving into one of the SC levels make more sense? Where would we be in SC if we've finished book C but may not be ready for book D/E? I like the looks of spelling/writing sentence books from SC1, but would those require us to be further in reading? For 1st grade would I just pull some things from MP1 and SC1/2?

    Sorry for all the questions! She's my oldest and I just don't fully understand what my expectations should be as far as her fluency/sounding out words at this point.

    Thanks,
    Laura
    2019-2020
    DD8, MP3/SC5-6
    DD6, MP1
    DD5, MPK

    #2
    Re: Phonics Advice

    Originally posted by ljallen44 View Post
    I am needing ideas for my 6 1/2 year old daughter. We've worked through MP K this year and hit a wall during phonics/reading. We finished enrichment, recitation, bible, math and copybook for K, but have not progressed past FSR book C.

    She has the concepts through book C, and can read the stories, but is still sounding out almost every word. I don't know where to go next.

    Before finding MP I had prepared all of the free Core Knowledge Language Arts units for K. I can work through the second half of those, which would be introducing blends/digraphs before long vowels, and have more hands on work with the words. I'm thinking this might help her have more time to practice with her fluency, but keep moving forward with new skills. She does good work, but does not have much internal motivation to learn to read.

    I have also been looking at jumping into some of the SC plans. I'm doing SC-B with my middle girl who was not ready for Jr. K yet, and I have SC-C also.

    I talked to Michelle T a few weeks ago via email, and we thought a pause and extra practice would help, but I feel like we both need actual plans of some kind to follow. I just don't know if we push forward and start FSR D, switch to the Core Knowledge plans and tackle blends, or look at SC.

    I was hoping to do only reading lessons from now until after 4th of July (about 6 weeks), then start full studies back up. For first grade, we could start the math, copybook, cursive and enrichment, but leave out phonics/spelling. Or would moving into one of the SC levels make more sense? Where would we be in SC if we've finished book C but may not be ready for book D/E? I like the looks of spelling/writing sentence books from SC1, but would those require us to be further in reading? For 1st grade would I just pull some things from MP1 and SC1/2?

    Sorry for all the questions! She's my oldest and I just don't fully understand what my expectations should be as far as her fluency/sounding out words at this point.

    Thanks,
    Laura
    It sounds like you are in a very similar place to where my daughter was last year (who was also 6.5 - she has a late Aug birthday). If you want some plans, I would definitely consider the SC1 plans. I would think about backing up to book A, but don't do the writing (and using suggestions from SC1). You'll move past this book quickly. (we did it in 1-2 weeks) and it was really helpful to use some of the kinesthetic activities.

    A few of the items in the lesson plans are things like:

    word flippers (you put "at" on one part of the note card and on the left you stack constants that make "at" words)
    writing words on notecards, calling them out and having your child jump to them
    word ladders - you draw a ladder on the white board and start with say "cat" you go up a rung and change one letter cat - hat - had - bad -bat , always only changing 1 letter.

    Also, the book "Phonics A to Z", recommended in the SC plans was invaluable to me. I know it seems no fun to back up, but sometimes it really helps! After you have re-done the books (only doing the activities and maybe writing the words on white board), then finish book C and use the SC plans for book D, for sure, you can re-evaluate. If your child needs SC, it might be better to just do the full SC2 package. I would not do the FSR E plans at this time.

    Here is the link to the individual SC1 phonics plans: https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...plans-subject/ and I would definitely consider purchasing that Phonics A to Z book. I found a used one on Amazon.
    Christine

    (2019/2020)
    DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
    DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

    Previous Years
    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Phonics Advice

      Thanks for the quick reply! Can you tell me where book E is scheduled in SC? Is it the summer after SC1? Would it be included in the SC1 plans?

      -Laura
      2019-2020
      DD8, MP3/SC5-6
      DD6, MP1
      DD5, MPK

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Phonics Advice

        Originally posted by ljallen44 View Post
        Thanks for the quick reply! Can you tell me where book E is scheduled in SC? Is it the summer after SC1? Would it be included in the SC1 plans?

        -Laura
        It's actually not being scheduled until SC3! There are suggestions for it at various places, depending on how your child is responding to the lessons.

        Here was a thread on when/what to do with FSR E. https://forum.memoriapress.com/showt...E-and-SC-1-2-3

        P.S. FSR E is not mentioned in SC1, at all. When SC1 was written, FSR E had not come about yet.
        Last edited by howiecram; 05-25-2017, 01:52 PM.
        Christine

        (2019/2020)
        DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
        DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
        DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

        Previous Years
        DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
        DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
        DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Phonics Advice

          Thanks for that. Can I also ask, I think they say don't start MP 1 until your child can read Little Bear. Is that the same with SC2 or is there a buffer before you get to Little Bear in the lesson plans?

          From other people's experience, should she be able to read at the end of FSR C without sounding out the cvc words BEFORE progressing into book D? Or should I expect after some weeks reviewing as you mentioned through books A, B, and C, that her fluency will continue to improve as we move through the SC1 plans for book D?

          -Laura
          2019-2020
          DD8, MP3/SC5-6
          DD6, MP1
          DD5, MPK

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Phonics Advice

            Originally posted by ljallen44 View Post
            Thanks for that. Can I also ask, I think they say don't start MP 1 until your child can read Little Bear. Is that the same with SC2 or is there a buffer before you get to Little Bear in the lesson plans?

            In SC2, there is a semester of review, before you start Little Bear! So, yes, there is a "buffer". Also, the SC Storytime Treasures are a little different than the regular Storytime treasures.

            From other people's experience, should she be able to read at the end of FSR C without sounding out the cvc words BEFORE progressing into book D? Or should I expect after some weeks reviewing as you mentioned through books A, B, and C, that her fluency will continue to improve as we move through the SC1 plans for book D?

            I'll let the experts answer this part of your question! My daughter was a little odd in that books A, B and C were "easy" but we got to D and it all fell apart. We used the MPK plans and I think using the SC plans might have made a difference (in the SC plans book D goes in order, instead of jumping around). She couldn't handle learning the blends and silent e at the same time. So, my uneducated guess is that to move to book D, your child should be able to read CVC words with relative ease. (P.S. I kind of had my doubts about how MPK schedules book D, but I don't have a neurotypical child! My son (5.5) though, is only on book A and he saw "fish" somewhere and was able to sound it out fairly easily, so I now understand that the plans in D will work as scheduled!

            -Laura
            I answered above!
            Last edited by howiecram; 05-25-2017, 02:13 PM.
            Christine

            (2019/2020)
            DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
            DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
            DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

            Previous Years
            DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
            DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
            DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Phonics Advice

              My 8 and 6 year olds were sounding out every.single.word after ten months of reading instruction with another program so when we started MP I put them both in Kindergarten and FSR has helped tremendously.

              If this has been your daughter's first year of official reading instruction then I think sounding out CVC words is fairly normal when in Book C and just signals the need for extra practice -- but like you, I don't do well without firm plans for that practice.

              The SC1 plans would be a great help for you to get that extra practice and built-in review. I used them for my 4-5 year old daughter this year who needed more activities in her learning. Also you may want to make a note on the plans to have her re-read the day's story in the afternoon.

              HTH!
              Jennifer
              Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

              DS16
              MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
              MPOA: High School Comp. II
              HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

              DS15
              MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
              MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
              HSC: Modern European History

              DS12
              7M with:
              Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

              DS11
              SC Level 4

              DD9
              3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

              DD7/8
              Still in SC Level 2

              DD 4/5
              SC Level C

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Phonics Advice

                Thanks Jen. This is our first reading instruction. I downloaded the SC1 plans and just got them printed. I appreciate the advice on having her re-read selections. I'm not sure if I missed that in MP K somewhere, but I never knew she should be reading stories over and over, as they are each scheduled only once. I think this is part of our problem. I had her pick out 3 of the red readers she liked the best and I told her we were going to practice on those 3 a lot more until she has more fluency with the reading.

                I also feel like we maybe should have had 2 separate reading sessions going during the day. We could not keep up with what was scheduled in 1 day for reading in the lesson plans, so we just moved through them slower, but maybe I should have just split the work up and tried to stay on pace. Who knows! I feel like I'm at least getting a plan together now for the next 6 weeks, and hopefully by the end of June I'll have some clarity on what our 1st grade year should look like. I'm learning with reading there's a fine line between keeping them challenged but not moving faster than their abilities can handle. I want to keep moving forward and it's hard to know the right pace for that.

                -Laura

                ETA: After reading through some old forum posts, I also hadn't realized it was okay to partner-read with her, so I was having her do all the readers and everything on her own all the time. It was a challenge to get through the primary phonics readers in one sitting. I'm hoping sharing the load with her on those will help the practice be more enjoyable.
                Last edited by ljallen44; 05-25-2017, 02:53 PM.
                2019-2020
                DD8, MP3/SC5-6
                DD6, MP1
                DD5, MPK

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Phonics Advice

                  YES! I got the advice to read those primary readers 3 times. My daughter was less than thrilled, but we trucked on! She would read them as assigned, then I kept them out for reading to her Dad at bedtime!

                  I have also heard, multiple times, in multiple homeschool circles, that 2 shorter phonics lessons are great for struggling learners!
                  Christine

                  (2019/2020)
                  DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                  DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                  DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                  Previous Years
                  DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                  DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                  DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Phonics Advice

                    We read every assigned reading atleast twice. We partner read, and switch every paragraph or every page. I make sure that when we read it the second time that we switch readings. So, first time I read the odd pages and next time I read the evens. It helps move things along quicker and gives them a positive model with good inflection and tone.

                    Make sure she's following along with her finger as she reads. You should also do this when it's your turn to read. It will keep her eyes tracking the words and help her stay focused.
                    Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                    DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                    DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                    DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                    We've completed:
                    Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                    Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Phonics Advice

                      Just echoing & summarizing all of the above good suggestions from our experienced MP/SC users, with a few extra tips, in case you need them:


                      1. You might not want to use those free phonics plans alongside SC 1 and 2.
                      In SC 1 and 2, we include written phonics work, flash card phonogram work, multi-sensory phonics work, word lists, nonsense words, and oral reading practice, but all are coordinated. Adding seemingly odd bits of phonics during this stage might confuse, rather than help.


                      2. Partner reading and modeling for fluency and for meaning
                      Yes! As mentioned above, not only does this lend more support to her practice sessions, your reading can model inflection, smooth reading (i.e., not laboriously sounding out every word), and reading for meaning. End your selection or hers with subtle exclamations, "Wow! Can you believe he ate all of those pancakes??" Before turning a page in the middle of the story, say with as much eagerness as you can muster, "Let's see what happens next." All of this conveys the idea that we're not simply "sounding out words;" we are reading stories.

                      3. Visual Tracking
                      Yes! Have her follow along with her finger or the top of a horizontally placed index card, as you read, and as she reads.

                      4. Two sessions & repetition
                      Yes! If Dad or a sibling is willing, you can have her read the same selection she read in the morning, but read it again in the afternoon. It would be good to establish twice-a-day reading right now, so she becomes accustomed to this for the next year or two. This will improve her fluency and confidence with just 10-15 minutes for that second session. Expect 10-15 minutes of reading in the afternoon session, so if she finishes the selection, she can move to a basket or small shelf of familiar readers. Ideally, the afternoon session will not introduce dreaded "work" of sounds or words, just reading practice.

                      You can use a metaphor - strengthening her "reading muscles" or, like swimming, moving more quickly through the page, as with swimming through the water. Explain this new second session in a way that is encouraging and hopeful. If she likes to think about things, ask her, "What do you think will happen if you start practicing twice in one day?"

                      5. A plan
                      Yes! Use those SC 1 and SC 2 plans and, as howiecram said, read Phonics A to Z. You will encounter terms like phonological awareness. If you suspect that she is not understanding sound/symbol connections or needs review, the book is filled with visual tips and lists of related books to read, as you go. We work some of these into the SC 1 and SC 2 plans.


                      This is your oldest child, so I can say along with many here, in all of parenting, few things will be as rewarding as teaching your own child to read.

                      Keep us posted.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Phonics Advice

                        Okay, I am back and needing any thoughts/suggestions moving forward. I think my biggest issue is still not fully understanding what is considered mastery in learning to read. I don't know if we have reached the point to move on, or not.

                        As previously stated, we did MPK last year with my daughter who will be 7 in October. Everything went well but we did not make it past the FSR C assessments in reading. She completed the rest of MPK with no issues. She knows her letters and sounds, blends words she is reading and can write words from dictation. We followed the plans exactly, including all the scheduled readers/stories, flashcards, etc. She was still sounding out pretty much every word she read other than the sight words which she got right most of the time.

                        So, after my first post here is what we've done:
                        -Bought SC1 plans for phonics, completed some of the activities for FSR books A-C

                        -Bought Primary Phonics workbooks and teacher manual for the red readers. We just yesterday finished all the activities for the Level 1 red readers. There are a wide variety of activities in the teacher manual including, dictation, rhyming, ear training, flashcards, etc. We both have loved it and it has taken away her stress she was feeling before.

                        So today, we have improved fluency. When we started book 10 yesterday of the red set, she was still sounding out about 50% of the words at the very beginning. She has greatly improved at remembering a word she has already sounded out in the story, so by the end of the book, I'd say she's reading about 80% without sounding out. But every single reading of the readers seems to start about 50%. At the beginning of the summer she was sounding out near 100%, so her fluency has improved.

                        She's still having a lot of trouble with b/d reversal, and I have to stay on her to check her hands if she can't remember. She has not had much intentional school work until MPK, and did receive speech services at our local school district at the end of her Pre-K year and about 1/2 of her K year for certain sounds. She "graduated" from speech and did not do anything for it in 2017.

                        So, I purchased the SC-2 manual, spelling and writing books so that I could really assess what to do this year. I honestly feel like she's okay in the MP-1 guide for everything but phonics/spelling. So I added in the writing sentences book this week, as I think this is something she needs to be working on.

                        So, my big question is what's next.

                        1) We can move into the Primary Phonics blue set, combining the plans from SC-1 and the Primary Phonics Teacher Manual and work though silent e and some long vowel teams. We would complete all the readers/stories/flashcards of SC-1, then re-evaluate what comes next. I already own everything I would need for this option. This would also have us work through FSR-D. After that we may move into SC-2 plans, or continue on with the Primary Phonics program until we are ready for Storytime Treasures.

                        2)We can continue work with CVC words only if you think her fluency is not where it needs to be to move into long vowels. The primary phonics has an additional set of CVC red readers called 1a I could purchase, or just repeat through the red readers/Fun in the Sun with extra practice for awhile.

                        3) We can look into switching over to All About Reading, which would cover blends before long vowels. This would be a big expense, but I know a lot of people have great success with it. I don't want the money to stand in the way of doing what is best for her and where she is with her reading right now. My biggest fear with this is that it will be hard to jump back into MP at a clean spot in the future. Maybe that's unfounded. I just like that the Primary Phonics lessons help me keep moving forward with MP plans.

                        Sorry that is so long, but she's my first and I just don't know when it's time to move forward or when more practice is needed. I greatly appreciate any thoughts/insights you can share!

                        -Laura
                        Last edited by ljallen44; 08-02-2017, 12:13 PM.
                        2019-2020
                        DD8, MP3/SC5-6
                        DD6, MP1
                        DD5, MPK

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Phonics Advice

                          Laura, you have accomplished a lot since the end of May!

                          I like your Option #1 because ...
                          1) both you and your daughter enjoy using the PPR TM activities, 2) you have successfully navigated the SC 1 lesson plans alongside FSR A-C, 3) there is no additional cost to you, 4) she is making good progress, 5) she does not a big curriculum change right now.

                          If you wanted to continue work on CVC, you could add some of your Option 2 as review. In this way you will keep maintaining all that you have achieved. You could focus on games with CVC and, as you said, rereading favorite decodable CVC stories.

                          "Mastery" in reading is somewhat elusive due to the many elements involved, but if she is spelling CVC words correctly in dictation, you can know you are on the right path.

                          Good work!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Phonics Advice

                            Laura- I have been moving stuff around in the attic prepping to start school with my son.

                            I found a set of Primary Phonics Workbooks for reader sets 2 through 6, unused. If you can get some use out of them let me know. I would just ask that you cover shipping.
                            Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                            DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                            DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                            DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                            We've completed:
                            Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                            Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Phonics Advice

                              It sounds like you are making great progress. If she (and you) are feeling good with the primary phonics, I'd say keep with it. You could always begin the second set and if it seems a struggle step back to the 1a set for more work with CVC words. Going through Fun in the Sun is also a good idea. Sometimes it seems like tons and tons and tons of practice and exposure is what is needed more than anything. Also progress often slow and steady (and sometimes sporadic), so don't get discouraged if you are seeing improvement.

                              If you want to move from primary phonics into either SC 2 or MP 1, I'd consider completing the primary phonics sets 2 and 3. I say this because from your post it seems like using the primary phonics teachers manual has been very helpful. Set 2 covers long vowels and set 3 covers blends. You could combine these sets with FSR D and could possibly add E (if you were leaning towards MP 1 rather than SC 2). Set 2 covers vowel teams as well as magic e words.

                              I really like AAR, but if you are finding success with the combo of SC and Primary Phonics, then I don't see a reason to make the switch.

                              For b/d, consider prompting her to check before she reads the word. This is super annoying, but it can help prevent mistakes, which boosts confidence. For example, "Oh here is a word with a tricky letter. Why don't you check it?" Also, for a long time, I kept a picture of that bed from FSR on the table right in front of us.
                              Susan

                              2018-2019
                              A (10) - Barton, R&S math 3, SC 3
                              C (9) - Barton, R&S math 2, SC 3
                              G (5) - Simply Classical C

                              Comment

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