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New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

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    New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

    Per Dianna's suggestion I am cross-posting this here...

    I am new to MP and just this week discovering how great it looks. I have a 6yo who will be heading into first and a 7yo heading into second grade. I have been rather eclectic and Charlotte Mason-y in my approach up until now, but my husband is wanting me to choose something that requires little to no planning from me, and is more of a workbook form. I'm trying to figure out where to place them, as my 7yo has dysgraphia and mild dyslexia. She is very smart, probably doing second grade math and listens to and comprehends read-alouds at an advanced level. However, she balks at writing more than a few words, and reads very slowly.

    When I posted my questions on the k-8 board, they mentioned the Simply Classical curriculum which is even newer to me than MP in general. Lol. So, what info do you need to help me place them? 😊
    DD 18 homeschool graduate 🎓
    DD 8 MP 3 at private school 3 days a week
    DD 7 MP 1 at private school 3 days a week
    DS 5 SC C and Myself and Others

    #2
    Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

    Welcome!

    Are both girls dyslexic? Who diagnosed them and when?

    What kind of phonics programs have they been through? (I believe you mentioned Logic of English A, B and C with your oldest, but not sure on your youngest?)

    You mentioned you thought she could read the 1st grade books, but not the 2nd.

    Cheryl will chime in, but the more info you can give her, the better she can help to place her! Please feel free to share as much as you are comfortable with!

    The little "SC" forum world over here is a little quieter, but very good at helping specific situations!

    I do know there are a few moms with children with dyslexia using the regular MP track. However, I know they are making some accommodations/modifications (in some cases dropping them down a few "grades"). Your oldest lines up perfectly with the newly released(ing) SC tracks and these modifications are already done FOR you (appeasing your husband with easy to follow plans will help you both succeed!) so it is less work than trying to modify it yourself.
    Last edited by howiecram; 04-27-2017, 09:43 PM.
    Christine

    (2018-2019)
    DD1 8/23/09 - SC4
    DS2 9/1/11 - SC2
    DD3 2/9/13 - MPK

    Previous Years
    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3)
    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK)
    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others!)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

      Christine,
      You are seriously the sweetest helper momma!
      Hope I get to see you again this summer!

      V,
      Christine is right .... Feel free to share details, and Cheryl will chime in with her wisdom soon.
      Plans for 2019-20
      DD #1 : 24, heading to Chase Law School NKU Fall 2019
      DD #2 : 13 8A: HLS Cottage School Louisville, MPOA
      DS #3 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
      DS #4 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
      DD #5: 7, MP 2 at home, HLS Cottage School Louisville
      DS #6: 5, MP K at home

      [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

      Comment


        #4
        Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

        Originally posted by DiannaKennedy View Post
        Christine,
        You are seriously the sweetest helper momma!

        So true! We love our forum momma helpers.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

          Originally posted by Vcoots View Post
          Per Dianna's suggestion I am cross-posting this here...

          I am new to MP and just this week discovering how great it looks. I have a 6yo who will be heading into first and a 7yo heading into second grade. I have been rather eclectic and Charlotte Mason-y in my approach up until now, but my husband is wanting me to choose something that requires little to no planning from me, and is more of a workbook form. I'm trying to figure out where to place them, as my 7yo has dysgraphia and mild dyslexia. She is very smart, probably doing second grade math and listens to and comprehends read-alouds at an advanced level. However, she balks at writing more than a few words, and reads very slowly.

          When I posted my questions on the k-8 board, they mentioned the Simply Classical curriculum which is even newer to me than MP in general. Lol. So, what info do you need to help me place them? 😊

          Yes, agreed. "Charlotte Mason-y" is wonderful with little ones. The approach helps us remember and even reclaim the importance of reading good books, being outside and observing, and just appreciating family life. She reminds me of a grandmother's common sense advice to raising children. Yet your husband is wise to realize the need to become a little more structured for academics and to embark on something a little more systematic in education, especially for our children with special learning needs.

          Your older daughter sounds perfect for Simply Classical Level 2. We created this exactly for the purposes you need: more practice in phonics, more practice in reading fluency, gentle but systematic instruction in writing with plenty of practice, ... all with joyful delight because of a connection to beautiful read-alouds. Simply Classical Curriculum is everything you need for a full year. We even provide an 8-week extension in each level for optional summer review.

          The only thing you might need is an adjustment upward in math, but everything is fully customizable, so this is not a problem at all.

          For ease of teaching this year, your 6yo daughter could join in with this very program. From there, she would move to MP 2, while your older daughter would move to SC 3. This would give you one year to "learn" a different approach with more structure, so you can establish your own daily rhythm of teaching.

          However, if they do not learn well together, or if you would simply prefer to have two different programs for them to avoid comparison, I would recommend this:

          This year
          6-year-old: MP 1
          7-year-old: SC 2

          Next year
          Younger: MP 2
          Older: SC 3


          The SC Curriculum is modeled after the MP Curriculum, but we include far more practice, we slow the pace to allow everything to fully "sink in," and we take an even more incremental approach to teaching reading & writing & arithmetic to provide the firm foundation many of our children with special needs (dyslexia, dysgraphia) will not otherwise develop without such support. At the same time, we include gentle studies in poetry, literature, art, music, and Christian and classical studies not typically found in "remedial" or special education.

          You can read about the philosophy here. For encouragement and practical application, we have a book you might appreciate.


          Look at SC 2. If you look at the content and think, "This looks way too hard, based on her skills," then we might be overestimating, and she might need to begin with SC 1. We have readiness assessments to help you decide. Just scroll down in this link and take the assessments for both SC 1 and SC 2. Report back, and we can help you decide, if you are unsure. The keys to success in SC for our children with special needs are 1) proper placement before you begin and 2) perseverance amidst doubt or discouragement when you begin!

          Watch a poignant video sent by one of our persevering SC forum moms. I encourage you to visit here on this forum for your daughter. You are definitely not alone!


          One more tip:
          When you look at MP and SC, you might feel overwhelmed coming from a relaxed Charlotte Mason approach. It looks like so much! But you do not teach all of those books in one day! Instead, a steady set of daily open-and-go lesson plans will guide you in teaching small bits day by day, week by week, season by season, until, lo and behold, the student becomes capable, confident, and ready for the next challenge.

          These forums provide any amount of support and community you need, as you teach. Best of all, we are "live" annually. We uniquely offer many sessions just for homeschooling moms of children with special needs.


          Feel free to follow up with any additional questions. We are glad you are here!

          Thanks-
          Cheryl

          Comment


            #6
            Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

            Originally posted by howiecram View Post
            Welcome!

            Are both girls dyslexic? Who diagnosed them and when?

            What kind of phonics programs have they been through? (I believe you mentioned Logic of English A, B and C with your oldest, but not sure on your youngest?)

            You mentioned you thought she could read the 1st grade books, but not the 2nd.

            Cheryl will chime in, but the more info you can give her, the better she can help to place her! Please feel free to share as much as you are comfortable with!

            The little "SC" forum world over here is a little quieter, but very good at helping specific situations!

            I do know there are a few moms with children with dyslexia using the regular MP track. However, I know they are making some accommodations/modifications (in some cases dropping them down a few "grades"). Your oldest lines up perfectly with the newly released(ing) SC tracks and these modifications are already done FOR you (appeasing your husband with easy to follow plans will help you both succeed!) so it is less work than trying to modify it yourself.
            My 7yo was diagnosed last year by a psychologist. He said she has inattentive ADHD, auditory memory disorder, and dyslexia. However, it's not as bad as it looks on paper. lol. We worked our rear-ends off and went through Barton 1 and 2 and she has improved a bunch. She could read the first grade books, it would just be pretty slow. She has excellent comprehension, though. She is very smart and doing 2nd grade math. My 6yo has not been diagnosed, but she has a lot of the same dyslexia/dysgraphia symptoms that 7yo had.

            As for phonics, if you aren't familiar with Logic of English it is similar to All About Reading. O-G based. My younger daughter is currently half-way through LoE Foundations level B. She can read very simple BOB-like books. It is very slow going. She periodically hits brick walls with phonics like she just isn't ready, so I back off a lot.

            I know this is all over the place, sorry! If you need more info to help me, just let me know.
            DD 18 homeschool graduate 🎓
            DD 8 MP 3 at private school 3 days a week
            DD 7 MP 1 at private school 3 days a week
            DS 5 SC C and Myself and Others

            Comment


              #7
              Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

              Originally posted by Vcoots View Post
              My 7yo was diagnosed last year by a psychologist. He said she has inattentive ADHD, auditory memory disorder, and dyslexia. However, it's not as bad as it looks on paper. lol. We worked our rear-ends off and went through Barton 1 and 2 and she has improved a bunch. She could read the first grade books, it would just be pretty slow. She has excellent comprehension, though. She is very smart and doing 2nd grade math. My 6yo has not been diagnosed, but she has a lot of the same dyslexia/dysgraphia symptoms that 7yo had.

              As for phonics, if you aren't familiar with Logic of English it is similar to All About Reading. O-G based. My younger daughter is currently half-way through LoE Foundations level B. She can read very simple BOB-like books. It is very slow going. She periodically hits brick walls with phonics like she just isn't ready, so I back off a lot.

              I know this is all over the place, sorry! If you need more info to help me, just let me know.

              Good information! This changes things for your younger daughter. She will need to begin SC 1!

              Everything else in my longer post remains, but your younger daughter will need to continue working diligently on her early reading.

              For this, you can continue in LoE, or begin fresh in SC 1, whichever you think best. Some of our homeschoolers substitute Barton or AAR alongside everything else in SC 1, and others begin at the beginning with SC 1 phonics & reading with success.

              Either way, you belong squarely in the SC camp for both girls, not traditional MP right now.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                Good information! This changes things for your younger daughter. She will need to begin SC 1!

                Everything else in my longer post remains, but your younger daughter will need to continue working diligently on her early reading.

                For this, you can continue in LoE, or begin fresh in SC 1, whichever you think best. Some of our homeschoolers substitute Barton or AAR alongside everything else in SC 1, and others begin at the beginning with SC 1 phonics & reading with success.

                Either way, you belong squarely in the SC camp for both girls, not traditional MP right now.
                What is exactly is the difference between MP and SC? Are they not ready for MP because there's a lot of writing and reading involved, and that's what my girls need the most practice with? Will they be able to transfer to MP eventually? Forgive my ignorance. :-)
                DD 18 homeschool graduate 🎓
                DD 8 MP 3 at private school 3 days a week
                DD 7 MP 1 at private school 3 days a week
                DS 5 SC C and Myself and Others

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                  Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                  Yes, agreed. "Charlotte Mason-y" is wonderful with little ones. The approach helps us remember and even reclaim the importance of reading good books, being outside and observing, and just appreciating family life. She reminds me of a grandmother's common sense advice to raising children. Yet your husband is wise to realize the need to become a little more structured for academics and to embark on something a little more systematic in education, especially for our children with special learning needs.

                  Your older daughter sounds perfect for Simply Classical Level 2. We created this exactly for the purposes you need: more practice in phonics, more practice in reading fluency, gentle but systematic instruction in writing with plenty of practice, ... all with joyful delight because of a connection to beautiful read-alouds. Simply Classical Curriculum is everything you need for a full year. We even provide an 8-week extension in each level for optional summer review.

                  The only thing you might need is an adjustment upward in math, but everything is fully customizable, so this is not a problem at all.

                  For ease of teaching this year, your 6yo daughter could join in with this very program. From there, she would move to MP 2, while your older daughter would move to SC 3. This would give you one year to "learn" a different approach with more structure, so you can establish your own daily rhythm of teaching.

                  However, if they do not learn well together, or if you would simply prefer to have two different programs for them to avoid comparison, I would recommend this:

                  This year
                  6-year-old: MP 1
                  7-year-old: SC 2

                  Next year
                  Younger: MP 2
                  Older: SC 3


                  The SC Curriculum is modeled after the MP Curriculum, but we include far more practice, we slow the pace to allow everything to fully "sink in," and we take an even more incremental approach to teaching reading & writing & arithmetic to provide the firm foundation many of our children with special needs (dyslexia, dysgraphia) will not otherwise develop without such support. At the same time, we include gentle studies in poetry, literature, art, music, and Christian and classical studies not typically found in "remedial" or special education.

                  You can read about the philosophy here. For encouragement and practical application, we have a book you might appreciate.


                  Look at SC 2. If you look at the content and think, "This looks way too hard, based on her skills," then we might be overestimating, and she might need to begin with SC 1. We have readiness assessments to help you decide. Just scroll down in this link and take the assessments for both SC 1 and SC 2. Report back, and we can help you decide, if you are unsure. The keys to success in SC for our children with special needs are 1) proper placement before you begin and 2) perseverance amidst doubt or discouragement when you begin!

                  Watch a poignant video sent by one of our persevering SC forum moms. I encourage you to visit here on this forum for your daughter. You are definitely not alone!


                  One more tip:
                  When you look at MP and SC, you might feel overwhelmed coming from a relaxed Charlotte Mason approach. It looks like so much! But you do not teach all of those books in one day! Instead, a steady set of daily open-and-go lesson plans will guide you in teaching small bits day by day, week by week, season by season, until, lo and behold, the student becomes capable, confident, and ready for the next challenge.

                  These forums provide any amount of support and community you need, as you teach. Best of all, we are "live" annually. We uniquely offer many sessions just for homeschooling moms of children with special needs.


                  Feel free to follow up with any additional questions. We are glad you are here!

                  Thanks-
                  Cheryl
                  I think we were writing at the same time, when this posted. Maybe something above will help with the distinction. (Just edit mentally to SC 1 for your 6yo, SC 2 for your 7yo, based on the helpful new information you provided.)

                  Yes, MP makes much more rapid, rigorous progress in reading and writing in the primary years, MP K-2. The SC primary years, SC 1-3, review, practice, and practice again in smaller, more incremental steps. This is true for both reading and writing.

                  After the SC primary years, some of our SC students with transition nicely to MP 2. Others will begin the grammar years, SC 4-6, in the SC Curriculum.

                  Keep in mind that both MP and SC are far advanced in content -- poetry, Latin, science, history, geography, literature, classical and Christian studies -- compared to much of education today, so nothing is lost by taking the time to absorb it all and build strong reading and writing skills in SC.

                  We have some threads of specific comparisons by level, but maybe this shorter answer helps?

                  Others who have taught from both SC and MP may chime in. You would certainly be free to teach from MP if you prefer, and then modify for your daughter's needs.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                    Originally posted by Vcoots View Post
                    What is exactly is the difference between MP and SC? Are they not ready for MP because there's a lot of writing and reading involved, and that's what my girls need the most practice with? Will they be able to transfer to MP eventually? Forgive my ignorance. :-)
                    I think Cheryl answered this well, but I'll chime in a bit too.

                    MP is based upon the excellent curriculum used at Highlands Latin School in Louisville, KY. The K-2 levels focus very much on mastering reading, writing, and arithmetic. The reading programs also move very quickly.

                    The SC curriculum also focuses on mastering reading, writing, and arithmetic, but it does in a slower, very incremental way with lots and lots of practice. At the K-2 (Level 1-3) the feel of the curriculum is very similar. Everything is laid out in a very organized way and all the subjects work together.

                    SC K and 1 cover the same material for phonic and math. SC adds in more repetition and more multi-sensory techniques and activities. After SC 1 the paths diverge. SC 2 moves to a slower progression with reading, adding extra phonics readers, and then covering four of the books read in MP 1. SC 2 has its own spelling (better suited for dsylexic children than Spelling Workout), writing, and copybook have lots of gentle repetition but less writing at any one time. SC 3 will also have extra phonics readers, and systematically teach vowel teams, and sounds of c, g, and y. It also will cover many more of the books read in MP 1 and one (I think) from MP 2. So a student could potentially go to MP 2 after SC 2 and SC 3.

                    What I've found with my oldest is that he needs way more fluency practice than his younger sister. He needs to spend more time working on a particular phonics concept before he moves on to another. He will master the same material that a MP student would, but just at a slower pace, at least for now. SC 2 definitely provides for this.

                    I did Barton 1 - most of 3 with my oldest. I would think that if Barton 2 was still really slow with your oldest you would really want to be in SC 2. I would be using a full SC core if my second child wasn't neurotypical, but since she is I just combine my oldest with her (which is down at least one grade level) in copybook and enrichment from MP 1. For now we are using AAR/AAS for reading and spelling but MP or SC for everything else. I use the ALS readers from SC 1&2 and hope to use SC Storytime Treasures soon. I also use the writing and lesson plans from SC 2.

                    As a side note, if you did combine here and there, or if you found that your girls need different math levels, etc., you can get individual lesson plans per subject. So even if you substitute something here or there, you can still have no-prep, day by day lesson plans.
                    Susan

                    2018-2019
                    A (10) - Barton, R&S math 3, SC 3
                    C (9) - Barton, R&S math 2, SC 3
                    G (5) - Simply Classical C

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                      The benefit to using the "modified" MP curriculum (otherwise known as Simply Classical) is that the modifications are done FOR you, so you don't have to do any additional work, Cheryl already did it for you!

                      A little background on us. We began MP when my oldest was 6. I first posted on the "SC" forum about my son. However, in speaking of my son, it brought up some things about my daughter. At the time, Cheryl suggested SC1, but I went with MPK because I actually thought MPK was going to be easy and I certainly didn't need the first 10 weeks of SC1. (read some sarcasm into that statement) This was a mistake for us. We should have done SC1, now that I know what I know about my daughter. We actually moved rather quickly through the MPK phonics (First Start Reading program) because my daughter could already read CVC words (or so I thought). We then got to book D (there are 5 workbooks in the series A-E) and my daughter fell apart. The progression of book D is a little different in the SC1 plans and MPK plans.

                      So, we moved onto SC2, but she was still struggling. We had to divert from MP for phonics and move over to AAR. We are on level 3. I thought she was doing SO well! I thought, she should do grade 2 this coming year, her reading is going well! To make sure though, I had her take an online assessment, called D O R A (DORA). Well, to my surprise, she only scored in the 1st grade for decoding!!! (my daughter will be 8 in Aug) She did score much higher 4th grade for comprehension and late 2nd grade for vocab or vice versa. This test was able to pick up on the fact that her excellent vocabulary and comprehension allow her to read at much higher levels, but her actual decoding skills are still very much weak. So, here we are...we will continue working with the "special needs" track because it is what she needs. Her younger brother will probably pass her up in the next couple of years....but this is how it is. It is very difficult to see our very SMART children needing a "special needs" curriculum, but it gives us both what we need.

                      If you go with the regular MP track, there is likely to be much more frustration and your child's skills may still not be able to progress correctly because she may compensate in other ways. This can lead to burn out and fatigue in many ways.

                      I really encourage you to consider the Simply Classical curriculum for both your girls.

                      It will look overwhelming to do both, but it is achievable. I would choose SC1 for your younger daughter for Phonics, Math (she might be able to do R&S grade 1 over the whole year, instead of 2 though as scheduled in SC1),recitations and copybook. You can combine for Christian Studies and Enrichment, using the SC2 plans. Your older daughter will have a writing book to accompany the Christian Studies (you and your daughter can take turns reading the Bible book to your younger daughter). Your younger daughter could draw pictures of the story, while your older daughter does her sentences. Everyone can participate in the read aloud books (or your older daughter might be able to read them herself?).

                      Also, it's ok if one part of the curriculum is "easy"! Can you attend any homeschool conferences to view the materials? IT really does help to see it all together.

                      Good luck!
                      Christine

                      (2018-2019)
                      DD1 8/23/09 - SC4
                      DS2 9/1/11 - SC2
                      DD3 2/9/13 - MPK

                      Previous Years
                      DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3)
                      DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK)
                      DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others!)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                        Thank you to everyone who has given advice and suggestions! I've read all the responses several times, and even rediscovered your blog, Dianna.

                        I went to the MP "store" in Louisville and they pulled out everything for me to look at. It all looked so perfect! I can see where each girl will be right where they need to be in SC levels 1 and 2. I even bought both cores (they replaced math 1 with math 2 for older DD) and they boxed them up and they are sitting in my kitchen! My younger daughter kept hugging the books and saying "I love school! Can we start today?!" and of course my older one is not interested. Lol

                        I'm sure I will need much more help.along the way. I still have to think about the enrichments I need to add, but usually they just distract me from the hard stuff like math and reading. So I may hold off a bit and see how we do.
                        DD 18 homeschool graduate 🎓
                        DD 8 MP 3 at private school 3 days a week
                        DD 7 MP 1 at private school 3 days a week
                        DS 5 SC C and Myself and Others

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                          Yay for a kitchen full of exciting potential. Exciting potential for both you and the girls.

                          Having a schedule to follow is a huge sigh of relief. You and the girls know when you've done enough for the day.

                          Not struggling to come up with lesson plans or extra kinesthetic activities.

                          And best of all...a forum full of mama's in the trenches with you. On the good days and through the rough patches. We're all here for ya!

                          Excited for your whole family!
                          Married to DH for 13 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                          DS10- Simply Classical 4 / Grade 3 Classic Core,
                          DD8- Grade 2 Classic Core,
                          DD 6- Classic Core Kindergarten

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: New to MP and trying to place my dyslexic girls

                            Originally posted by Vcoots View Post
                            Thank you to everyone who has given advice and suggestions! I've read all the responses several times, and even rediscovered your blog, Dianna.

                            I went to the MP "store" in Louisville and they pulled out everything for me to look at. It all looked so perfect! I can see where each girl will be right where they need to be in SC levels 1 and 2. I even bought both cores (they replaced math 1 with math 2 for older DD) and they boxed them up and they are sitting in my kitchen! My younger daughter kept hugging the books and saying "I love school! Can we start today?!" and of course my older one is not interested. Lol

                            I'm sure I will need much more help.along the way. I still have to think about the enrichments I need to add, but usually they just distract me from the hard stuff like math and reading. So I may hold off a bit and see how we do.
                            Very good plan. I think your comment about the "fun" enrichnents distracting from the "hard" teaching rings true for most of us! So glad you were able to visit MP in person.

                            I hope you can join us for Sodalitas in July.

                            Comment

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