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Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

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    Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

    I feel like a complete traitor but, here goes....

    I really do not care for the phonics MP uses.

    Whew.
    There. I said it. I've had it in hand several times, and I've tried it several times, but for my specific SN children, who all very specifically have language-based learning differences, I just have not been able to use it. We get nowhere -- and it's frustrating for them. I know the SC guides try to add a multi-sensory component, but the program itself just seems to not work for my kids (I know it DOES work for a lot of SN kiddos--it just doesn't work for mine).

    We already use something different for Older Son, but his needs are entirely different than my rising kindergartner. DS-5 (younger son) is autistic (level three support needs; severe-end of the spectrum, with a language delay; very intelligent, sensory seeker, loves numbers and has excellent fine-motor, writing, and drawing skills) and I just can't see the program I have on hand, for Older Son, working for him... but I also cannot see the MP phonics program working for him. Because he already knows his letters and letter sounds, and is beginning to learn to blend, I tried a couple of the MP phonics books with him and they were just a bust. I hate it, but there it is.

    I'd really like to move him into a core next year. We're having to move Older Son away from a FULL core and take a "less is more" approach due to some of his medical issues, but DS-5 would thrive with the overall structure of a full core... but I wonder if the program is even worth investing in if we use an entirely different reading program (I'm not talking about literature -- we would stick with the MP literature -- I just mean the "learning to read" portions of the program). Specifically, I'm looking at Level C or Level 1. I've had Level 1 on hand, but it's been a while. How much of the program (C and/or 1) is tied to the phonics/reading lessons? Level 2 will be pretty easy to use without the phonics portions, because it's assumed the child has the basics down -- but Levels C and 1 actively TEACH the basics of reading, so....


    A lot of rambling. Sorry. I'm eyeball deep in planning for next year.

    #2
    Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

    Hi, Aimee.

    Have you ever used the full MP or SC phonics plan (i.e., new phonogram cards, word lists, nonsense word games, and readers -- not just FSR/PPR)? If not, it might be more effective for language-based difficulties than you think. Even so, here you go:

    Level 1 utilizes all of the items listed in parentheses above, and more. However, if you wanted to swap something different, we have one mom on our forum using Barton (Dianna) and another using AAR (Christine), either to supplement or substitute. You can tell from the sample SC 1 guide, you can insert your own phonics/reading plan or program, if you want.


    Level C is really pre-phonics and alphabet mastery until the very end when FSR A CVC skills are introduced, so you will be fine to teach C as a whole.

    A tip:
    For both levels, even if you substitute other reading programs I would purchase the Curriculum Guide, rather than purchasing piecemeal lesson plans by subject. You'll feel more cohesive, and you might even find some reading/phonics suggestions that you want to incorporate into another reading program.

    We're happy to help you coordinate it all, if needed.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

      Aimee, turn on your personal messages. The moms mentioned above may want to send a private message.

      I will say I have incorporated Christian Light Education grade 1 Language Arts with my son. It's very repetitive and my son enjoys it.
      Married to DH for 13 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

      DS10- Simply Classical 4 / Grade 3 Classic Core,
      DD8- Grade 2 Classic Core,
      DD 6- Classic Core Kindergarten

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

        I use a different phonics program with my oldest. Aside from that he uses a full core. We're finishing up the last 2 weeks of K and then we will be starting 1st. He'll do everything in the core except for the reading and spelling. Since he won't be doing the STT yet, I'm adding in SC writing. I hope to do STT once he's covered approximately the same phonograms that are covered in K and the summer bridge. But I plan on doing it as a literature/grammar/composition study. Not phonics. He has a variety of special needs and I've tried MP phonics and it just doesn't seem to work for us. Maybe if he'd started there in the beginning perhaps, but as it is I would have to make too many tweaks, pace changes, additions, etc. And I need a program that tells me exactly what to do. I have used MP phonics as written with my daughter and they are wonderful for her.

        We've done LiPS, levels 1-2 of Barton, most of level 3 of Barton, and now we are almost done with AAR level 1. I switched from Barton to separate reading and spelling and to improve fluency. I want to use MP completely. Maybe by the time he is ready for level 3 it will work, I don't know.

        But as far as levels C and 1 go, you wouldn't need to substitute anything except for phonics to level 1. I don't think phonics are linked to any of the other subjects in the curriculum. I haven't done level C, so I can't speak to it, but I would think it's considerably different from FSR since it's mostly pre-reading.
        Susan

        2018-2019
        A (10) - Barton, R&S math 3, SC 3
        C (9) - Barton, R&S math 2, SC 3
        G (5) - Simply Classical C

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

          Originally posted by sfhargett View Post
          But as far as levels C and 1 go, you wouldn't need to substitute anything except for phonics to level 1. I don't think phonics are linked to any of the other subjects in the curriculum. I haven't done level C, so I can't speak to it, but I would think it's considerably different from FSR since it's mostly pre-reading.
          Yes, exactly. And if you wanted to teach C, I would teach the entire level. All works together in C for pre-phonics.

          For SC 1, we discussed it at MP and decided to keep phonics/reading separate for anyone who needed or wanted to substitute an entirely different phonics/reading program but still wanted everything else. This was hard for me, because I love the power of integrating for our children with memory or language challenges (or both). However, in the end this approach seemed best, because it gives homeschoolers and classroom teachers the greatest flexibility for teaching Barton, AAR, Wilson, or whatever favorite learn-to-read program they would like.

          I hope this helps --

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

            We are using AAR! I actually bought AAR Pre-Reading to do alongside SC-C, but it was totally unnecessary. I've shelved it for now and will use it with my younger daughter.

            So, my oldest did a mash up of phonics for her "K" year. We started with 100 EZ lessons. That was a major fail. However, I suspect that she just wasn't ready to blend yet. I don't know that it was really the program! So, when that wasn't working, I looked into about 100 different programs! LOL She was just 5 when we started and in our state was really only pre-k, so I feel badly for all the effort I put forth when she was 5! We should have been doing other things, instead of blending at that time! (First time homeschooling mom!) Anyway, for awhile we just did "This Reading Mama" Bob book printables, R&S ABC books, and the art, poetry, music, religion from Mother of Divine Grace. That pretty much comprised her first year. (I didn't know about MP then!) However, around February, I noticed she was blending better. I think in January I bought CHC's "Little Stories for Little Folks" and did that a bit. Then, I bought Little Angel Readers program. I actually really liked this program, but it was time consuming (it was taking around 45 minutes to do a lesson). I didn't realize we didn't have to finish a lesson a day! (again, First time homeschooling mama! LOL). Then, in April, I found MP, but wasn't sold on it. I saw it at a Catholic Homeschool conference, but had already settled on Our Lady of Victory (since it used the Little Angel Readers) and had just about everything for her FIRST grade year. However, I came home with an MP magalog! I spent several months going through all the Catholic Homeschool providers, and MP. In July, I settled on MP. My daughter would be turning 6 in August. I wanted to do First Grade, but the wise folks here told me to start with MPK. It was a good decision, but I wish I should have done SC1! (knowing her "issues after the fact) She breezed through FSR A-C, but we had been blending CVC words for nearly a year at this point. We also breezed through FSR D, but I didn't realize she had not internalized those rules! After talking with Cheryl, we actually went back through FSR A-C with the SC1 plans and then moved over into SC2. I liked the SC2 plans, but she was still struggling. She was actually not even saying CVC words correctly (sometimes making long vowel sounds, instead of short), she was adding blends to cvc words and it was just a mess! So, with Cheryl's advice, we actually picked up AAR and dropped SC2 phonics. We did discuss Barton, but there are no Barton resources in our town. I decided we would just try AAR. We started on lesson 1 (blending CVC words again!) and breezed through the first 18 lessons. Then, we got to blends. I found the source of our problems! The blends were tripping her up! Lesson 18 + is almost all different blends, with short vowels, compound words and it even continues into Level 2. Around lesson 15 we started CVCe words. Again, found that this was also a problem for her. She knew the rule, but could not apply them. There are 10 lessons on CVCe words and then they add some blends, etc. We have had to take an extended period here, taking lots of time to review. We spent about 4 weeks on these lessons. It's so funny, she's come so far, yet she doesn't techincally know anything more than she did a year ago. However, now she is doing it with much more accuracy and fluency!

            Hopefully, you have found that people here at "MP" generally just want your child to be successful. They will never chastise you for not choosing their materials. You are the teacher and know what your child needs!

            So, around week 10, we started AAR with SC2. We continued with everything but the phonics/spelling. In January, we added Simply Classical STT, alongside AAR AND AAS. It's working.

            My youngest has been doing Simply Classical C. I wouldn't change a thing about SC-C. It's perfect! If your child needs C, I wouldn't do any other phonics. The "reading" doesn't start until Simply Classical 1.

            Anyway, so here is what we are doing in the Fall. My children will be 8, 6 and 4.5

            Child 8 - will do the full SC3 core, but we are going to try and finish AAR 3 before we start. Then in the summer after SC3, we will do AAR4. (we may start it and work very slowly, but we'll try the SC3 core first). I love AAR, but it's time consuming and totally mom intensive!

            Child 6 will do the full Sc1 core. I have started AAR 1 with him, but plan to still do FSR, as scheduled in SC1 and drop AAR. We may save AAR for summers and breaks. We'll see how he does. I'm excited to use the SC1 phonics plans. They are so different from MPK and are so much more than just doing FSR.

            Child 4.5 will do the Alphabet books alongside AAR Pre-reading - basically doing the activity sheets and some rhyming exercising. SC-C isn't a good fit for her. I don't really want to do JR. K either. She'll have enough "extra" stuff with SC1 from my son's "school". She'll continue with the R&S preschool ABC books as well and that will be it for her.
            Christine

            (2019/2020)
            DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
            DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
            DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

            Previous Years
            DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
            DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
            DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

              Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
              Yes, exactly. And if you wanted to teach C, I would teach the entire level. All works together in C for pre-phonics.

              For SC 1, we discussed it at MP and decided to keep phonics/reading separate for anyone who needed or wanted to substitute an entirely different phonics/reading program but still wanted everything else. This was hard for me, because I love the power of integrating for our children with memory or language challenges (or both). However, in the end this approach seemed best, because it gives homeschoolers and classroom teachers the greatest flexibility for teaching Barton, AAR, Wilson, or whatever favorite learn-to-read program they would like.

              I hope this helps --
              This is a huge help.
              And, yes, we've attempted entire cores, but since I have this innate need for everything to tie in, when reading just seemed like a huge mountain, I shelved the core in favor of doing essentially nothing other than reading and handwriting for the rest of the year, at least with DS7 (8 in May). He struggles only in those two areas, but they are big struggles for him.

              I love that SC1 separates the two, and if younger DS doesn't seem to do well with the FSR A program (I have it on hand, so I'll try it over the summer), at least I can move forward with the Level 1 core knowing that I can easily sub out the phonics.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

                This is great. Thank you so much! I think we're going to start AAR1 during the summer with DS7 to see if he gets anywhere with it. Actually, I have most of it on hand now (I think I'm only missing two of the three readers), so I might start him with it now.
                He does really well with CVCe words, and is doing much better with CVC words, even over the last week -- but, boy, do those consonant blends mess with him. Also, anything with an "l" or "r" sound anywhere in it really trip him up, so I suppose we'll start at the beginning of AAR1.
                Originally posted by howiecram View Post
                We are using AAR! I actually bought AAR Pre-Reading to do alongside SC-C, but it was totally unnecessary. I've shelved it for now and will use it with my younger daughter.

                So, my oldest did a mash up of phonics for her "K" year. We started with 100 EZ lessons. That was a major fail. However, I suspect that she just wasn't ready to blend yet. I don't know that it was really the program! So, when that wasn't working, I looked into about 100 different programs! LOL She was just 5 when we started and in our state was really only pre-k, so I feel badly for all the effort I put forth when she was 5! We should have been doing other things, instead of blending at that time! (First time homeschooling mom!) Anyway, for awhile we just did "This Reading Mama" Bob book printables, R&S ABC books, and the art, poetry, music, religion from Mother of Divine Grace. That pretty much comprised her first year. (I didn't know about MP then!) However, around February, I noticed she was blending better. I think in January I bought CHC's "Little Stories for Little Folks" and did that a bit. Then, I bought Little Angel Readers program. I actually really liked this program, but it was time consuming (it was taking around 45 minutes to do a lesson). I didn't realize we didn't have to finish a lesson a day! (again, First time homeschooling mama! LOL). Then, in April, I found MP, but wasn't sold on it. I saw it at a Catholic Homeschool conference, but had already settled on Our Lady of Victory (since it used the Little Angel Readers) and had just about everything for her FIRST grade year. However, I came home with an MP magalog! I spent several months going through all the Catholic Homeschool providers, and MP. In July, I settled on MP. My daughter would be turning 6 in August. I wanted to do First Grade, but the wise folks here told me to start with MPK. It was a good decision, but I wish I should have done SC1! (knowing her "issues after the fact) She breezed through FSR A-C, but we had been blending CVC words for nearly a year at this point. We also breezed through FSR D, but I didn't realize she had not internalized those rules! After talking with Cheryl, we actually went back through FSR A-C with the SC1 plans and then moved over into SC2. I liked the SC2 plans, but she was still struggling. She was actually not even saying CVC words correctly (sometimes making long vowel sounds, instead of short), she was adding blends to cvc words and it was just a mess! So, with Cheryl's advice, we actually picked up AAR and dropped SC2 phonics. We did discuss Barton, but there are no Barton resources in our town. I decided we would just try AAR. We started on lesson 1 (blending CVC words again!) and breezed through the first 18 lessons. Then, we got to blends. I found the source of our problems! The blends were tripping her up! Lesson 18 + is almost all different blends, with short vowels, compound words and it even continues into Level 2. Around lesson 15 we started CVCe words. Again, found that this was also a problem for her. She knew the rule, but could not apply them. There are 10 lessons on CVCe words and then they add some blends, etc. We have had to take an extended period here, taking lots of time to review. We spent about 4 weeks on these lessons. It's so funny, she's come so far, yet she doesn't techincally know anything more than she did a year ago. However, now she is doing it with much more accuracy and fluency!

                Hopefully, you have found that people here at "MP" generally just want your child to be successful. They will never chastise you for not choosing their materials. You are the teacher and know what your child needs!

                So, around week 10, we started AAR with SC2. We continued with everything but the phonics/spelling. In January, we added Simply Classical STT, alongside AAR AND AAS. It's working.

                My youngest has been doing Simply Classical C. I wouldn't change a thing about SC-C. It's perfect! If your child needs C, I wouldn't do any other phonics. The "reading" doesn't start until Simply Classical 1.

                Anyway, so here is what we are doing in the Fall. My children will be 8, 6 and 4.5

                Child 8 - will do the full SC3 core, but we are going to try and finish AAR 3 before we start. Then in the summer after SC3, we will do AAR4. (we may start it and work very slowly, but we'll try the SC3 core first). I love AAR, but it's time consuming and totally mom intensive!

                Child 6 will do the full Sc1 core. I have started AAR 1 with him, but plan to still do FSR, as scheduled in SC1 and drop AAR. We may save AAR for summers and breaks. We'll see how he does. I'm excited to use the SC1 phonics plans. They are so different from MPK and are so much more than just doing FSR.

                Child 4.5 will do the Alphabet books alongside AAR Pre-reading - basically doing the activity sheets and some rhyming exercising. SC-C isn't a good fit for her. I don't really want to do JR. K either. She'll have enough "extra" stuff with SC1 from my son's "school". She'll continue with the R&S preschool ABC books as well and that will be it for her.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Has anyone used a different phonics with a core?

                  Originally posted by AimeeM View Post
                  This is great. Thank you so much! I think we're going to start AAR1 during the summer with DS7 to see if he gets anywhere with it. Actually, I have most of it on hand now (I think I'm only missing two of the three readers), so I might start him with it now.
                  He does really well with CVCe words, and is doing much better with CVC words, even over the last week -- but, boy, do those consonant blends mess with him. Also, anything with an "l" or "r" sound anywhere in it really trip him up, so I suppose we'll start at the beginning of AAR1.
                  We spent months (I think at least 6 months) on the first 4 lessons of Barton level 3 learning blends. For reading, if he can make all the individual sounds correctly, and make at least part of the work correct -- for example if the word is flip, if he can say /fl/ and /ip/, but then messes it up somewhat when he says the whole word, I still count it as right and move on. Sometimes he can just cannot get those sounds to come out correctly, so if he knows what the word is and approximates it closely then I count it as right. Learning how to spell those words was so hard. He had such a hard time hearing those blends.

                  Also wanted to add my guy has significant articulation problems, so he's still working on l's, r's, and blends in speech therapy.
                  Susan

                  2018-2019
                  A (10) - Barton, R&S math 3, SC 3
                  C (9) - Barton, R&S math 2, SC 3
                  G (5) - Simply Classical C

                  Comment

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