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Thinking ahead a bit

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    Thinking ahead a bit

    Since switching to the SC1 plans for phonics, I've seen some improvement in C. He still balks at school, but he really enjoys the movement activities and the sensory routine before school seems to be helping as well. He actually didn't put up a fuss when I had him and H sit down after lunch for a second lesson and he pulled out one of his own readers from the library to read a second story to us!

    I'm trying to figure out where to place him next as it looks like we may finish MPK early. He seems to need the additional activities from SC, but he also needs to get to meatier content. He has a hard time getting into school and he loses interest quickly.

    What would be the best path to help get him closer to his age level content-wise while meeting him where he's at skill-wise -- MP or SC? My husband and I both feel like his skill level is really causing a lot of his current frustration because it just doesn't match where he's at intellectually so it's making it even harder for him to focus.
    Jennifer
    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

    DS16
    MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
    MPOA: High School Comp. II
    HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

    DS15
    MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
    MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
    HSC: Modern European History

    DS12
    7M with:
    Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

    DS11
    SC Level 4

    DD9
    3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

    DD7/8
    Still in SC Level 2

    DD 4/5
    SC Level C

    #2
    Re: Thinking ahead a bit

    Jen,

    You have options. Since you finished the MP K, you could move on to MP 1st and move as his pace. Add in review weeks or prolong particularly challenging reading selections etc. OR You could move into SC Level 2. This will have the additional activities consistent in the other SC levels, so rather than just moving at a slower pace, she added specific helps.

    Blessings,
    Michelle T

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Thinking ahead a bit

      Originally posted by Michelle T View Post
      Jen,

      You have options. Since you finished the MP K, you could move on to MP 1st and move as his pace. Add in review weeks or prolong particularly challenging reading selections etc. OR You could move into SC Level 2. This will have the additional activities consistent in the other SC levels, so rather than just moving at a slower pace, she added specific helps.

      Blessings,
      Michelle T
      That's part of my quandary. I don't think he needs a slower pace per se, but he needs the additional activities to help him focus in on what he's learning. He also needs more age-level content as he is 8 and will turn 9 next fall while working on whichever grade/level he goes into next. He is also struggling in math. He understands the concepts, but his focus is getting in the way. He's been hovering in the 20's for weeks on XtraMath's addition mastery practice. For reference (NOT comparison), his 6yo sister is currently in the 50's and making steady progress.
      Jennifer
      Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

      DS16
      MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
      MPOA: High School Comp. II
      HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

      DS15
      MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
      MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
      HSC: Modern European History

      DS12
      7M with:
      Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

      DS11
      SC Level 4

      DD9
      3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

      DD7/8
      Still in SC Level 2

      DD 4/5
      SC Level C

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Thinking ahead a bit

        Jen,

        Are you using Rod and Staff or some other master-based program? That could be helpful. X-tra math is good practice but studies show writing aids in memory. Rod and Staff gives plenty of practice writing the answers to facts.

        Michelle

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Thinking ahead a bit

          Jennifer,

          You really could go either way. MP 1 has similar multi-sensory games and activities provided in the back of books. You're already learning which seems to help him the most, so you can add these yourself to hold his attention.

          If you choose SC 2, you will find steady instruction in R&S 1, part two, which will help his mastery of math facts and speed with computation. The SC plans provide more multi-sensory lessons, math read-alouds, and other visual activities that he seems to need.

          To challenge him with higher-level content, you will have SC 2 art, music, and the option of extended literature. SC 2 has "Delve Deeply" Fridays, in which he can enjoy challenging explorations of world geography, history, and more. Because many of our students are in the same position as your son (low skills, high interest), we try to pack each SC level with challenging content. In SC Writing, for example, he will work on early composition skills, but these are linked to interesting Bible stories and read alouds.

          Take a look specifically at SC Writing to see the aids he will receive in learning to write good sentences. You can see that we include many high-interest science books with that program, just for the reasons you are describing.

          If he still needed more than this, you could always supplement with more advanced, longer family read-alouds from great literature. And you can accelerate the lessons in SC 2 wherever appropriate. Each Friday, for example, has options for Review. Rather than use the review lessons on Fridays, you might teach from those Delve Deeply lessons to explore more fascinating content.

          While you do not want to hold him back, you also want to solidify the skills (reading, writing, arithmetic) that will make his future education much more successful.


          No matter whether you choose MP 1 or SC 2, if you're not yet addressing the ADHD with sensory OT, medication, or dietary changes, you might want to consider this as well. His ability to concentrate will be tested in either program!

          Watch the environmental controls too. Make sure to turn off all extra noise (tv, radio, scanner) that might occur in the home during his lessons. Give him headphones and a study carrel for independent work. He will likely need modifications to attend to his lessons, whether in MP 1 and in SC 2.



          I hope that helps --

          Cheryl

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Thinking ahead a bit

            Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
            Jennifer,

            You really could go either way. MP 1 has similar multi-sensory games and activities provided in the back of books. You're already learning which seems to help him the most, so you can add these yourself to hold his attention.

            If you choose SC 2, you will find steady instruction in R&S 1, part two, which will help his mastery of math facts and speed with computation. The SC plans provide more multi-sensory lessons, math read-alouds, and other visual activities that he seems to need.

            To challenge him with higher-level content, you will have SC 2 art, music, and the option of extended literature. SC 2 has "Delve Deeply" Fridays, in which he can enjoy challenging explorations of world geography, history, and more. Because many of our students are in the same position as your son (low skills, high interest), we try to pack each SC level with challenging content. In SC Writing, for example, he will work on early composition skills, but these are linked to interesting Bible stories and read alouds.

            Take a look specifically at SC Writing to see the aids he will receive in learning to write good sentences. You can see that we include many high-interest science books with that program, just for the reasons you are describing.

            If he still needed more than this, you could always supplement with more advanced, longer family read-alouds from great literature. And you can accelerate the lessons in SC 2 wherever appropriate. Each Friday, for example, has options for Review. Rather than use the review lessons on Fridays, you might teach from those Delve Deeply lessons to explore more fascinating content.

            While you do not want to hold him back, you also want to solidify the skills (reading, writing, arithmetic) that will make his future education much more successful.


            No matter whether you choose MP 1 or SC 2, if you're not yet addressing the ADHD with sensory OT, medication, or dietary changes, you might want to consider this as well. His ability to concentrate will be tested in either program!

            Watch the environmental controls too. Make sure to turn off all extra noise (tv, radio, scanner) that might occur in the home during his lessons. Give him headphones and a study carrel for independent work. He will likely need modifications to attend to his lessons, whether in MP 1 and in SC 2.



            I hope that helps --

            Cheryl
            Thank you for this information -- he LOVES science, particularly nature science so I could see those "Delve Deeply Fridays" going a long way for him. I'm going to share this information with my husband. He's hesitant to do medication at this age (he's on ADHD meds himself and knows the side-effects well), but we are starting him on a high-quality fish oil (Omega 3/6) supplement as soon as our next client payments come in. I took him off dairy for awhile but it was with mixed results. I do need to cut back on processed foods again as we started buying more ready-made when I was still working and schooling (I've stepped back from work the past month or two).

            Ironically, he NEEDS music to be able to focus! He used to hum or sing while he worked, so I started playing classical music. Then, last week, he said that he hums songs from How to Train Your Dragon while he works because he really likes them. So I turned on the soundtrack to that and it was like a magic pill for his focus during FSR! His dad is the same way. He often has to have music or even TV shows playing in the background so that he can focus on work.
            Jennifer
            Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

            DS16
            MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
            MPOA: High School Comp. II
            HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

            DS15
            MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
            MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
            HSC: Modern European History

            DS12
            7M with:
            Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

            DS11
            SC Level 4

            DD9
            3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

            DD7/8
            Still in SC Level 2

            DD 4/5
            SC Level C

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Thinking ahead a bit

              Originally posted by Michelle T View Post
              Jen,

              Are you using Rod and Staff or some other master-based program? That could be helpful. X-tra math is good practice but studies show writing aids in memory. Rod and Staff gives plenty of practice writing the answers to facts.

              Michelle
              I do use a mastery-based program, but he hit a wall when he got to subtraction and he wasn't remembering his addition. He always had to use beads to solve the addition problems. So I thought XtraMath might help solidify the fact memorization. Flashcards didn't help either.

              I was afraid that R&S might be too dull for him, especially since his focus is very dependent on his level of interest. I was also thinking about going back to Montessori Math for him (not RightStart -- I have the AMI Montessori Math albums) since it would engage him hands-on. I just don't know if the implicit memorization in that would work when the explicit isn't even working. What are your thoughts?
              Jennifer
              Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

              DS16
              MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
              MPOA: High School Comp. II
              HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

              DS15
              MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
              MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
              HSC: Modern European History

              DS12
              7M with:
              Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

              DS11
              SC Level 4

              DD9
              3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

              DD7/8
              Still in SC Level 2

              DD 4/5
              SC Level C

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                I'm not Michelle, but R&S is surprisingly engaging. We use all of the Visual Aids in our SC plans.

                If you were to look only at the student book, it would appear dull, but use all of the suggested posters, flannelboards, and other tools. This makes it much more hands-on than people think. And R&S creates powerful fact mastery while teaching necessary concepts!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                  Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                  I do use a mastery-based program, but he hit a wall when he got to subtraction and he wasn't remembering his addition. He always had to use beads to solve the addition problems. So I thought XtraMath might help solidify the fact memorization. Flashcards didn't help either.

                  I was afraid that R&S might be too dull for him, especially since his focus is very dependent on his level of interest. I was also thinking about going back to Montessori Math for him (not RightStart -- I have the AMI Montessori Math albums) since it would engage him hands-on. I just don't know if the implicit memorization in that would work when the explicit isn't even working. What are your thoughts?
                  Do you the preschool or elementary albums? At his age, the preschool presentations will not work. I have the elementary albums and they are different. You still work with the golden beads, but the other charts are not used at the elementary level. I asked my Montessori guru about the memorization, and honestly, I wasn't fond of the answer. She basically made it seem like they just need to move onto other concepts.... So, I don't think they will aid in the memorization. Actually, Singapore math and the number bonds has been what has been helping my kiddo! I do not really like Singapore, but in my Asynchronous child, it is working wonderfully. IT challenges her in ways I can not. I am not fond of the algebraic components, but she actually likes them. I was going to stop and she said "no, I really LIKE this." So, onto 1B we go. I know we will not be able to sustain both R&S and Singapore together for a long time. For now, this year, it works.
                  Christine

                  (2019/2020)
                  DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                  DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                  DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                  Previous Years
                  DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                  DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                  DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                    Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                    I'm not Michelle, but R&S is surprisingly engaging. We use all of the Visual Aids in our SC plans.

                    If you were to look only at the student book, it would appear dull, but use all of the suggested posters, flannelboards, and other tools. This makes it much more hands-on than people think. And R&S creates powerful fact mastery while teaching necessary concepts!

                    On top of the R&S already included hands on "stuff" though, in the SC2 plans, Cheryl has included additional fun items!! You (he) might enjoy those!
                    Christine

                    (2019/2020)
                    DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                    DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                    Previous Years
                    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                      Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                      I'm not Michelle, but R&S is surprisingly engaging. We use all of the Visual Aids in our SC plans.

                      If you were to look only at the student book, it would appear dull, but use all of the suggested posters, flannelboards, and other tools. This makes it much more hands-on than people think. And R&S creates powerful fact mastery while teaching necessary concepts!
                      Hmmm...it sounds pretty teacher-intensive. Good grief...I'm limited with my health but my kids need more teacher-intensive activities...trying to find the balance is so hard. Today is a great example. I'm running on empty, the kids sense it and are off the wall and I've had to spread some of my older kids' "Mom-time" reviews to other days because I can't do them today.

                      Do you the preschool or elementary albums? At his age, the preschool presentations will not work. I have the elementary albums and they are different. You still work with the golden beads, but the other charts are not used at the elementary level. I asked my Montessori guru about the memorization, and honestly, I wasn't fond of the answer. She basically made it seem like they just need to move onto other concepts.... So, I don't think they will aid in the memorization. Actually, Singapore math and the number bonds has been what has been helping my kiddo! I do not really like Singapore, but in my Asynchronous child, it is working wonderfully. IT challenges her in ways I can not. I am not fond of the algebraic components, but she actually likes them. I was going to stop and she said "no, I really LIKE this." So, onto 1B we go. I know we will not be able to sustain both R&S and Singapore together for a long time. For now, this year, it works.
                      I have both
                      Jennifer
                      Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                      DS16
                      MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
                      MPOA: High School Comp. II
                      HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

                      DS15
                      MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
                      MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
                      HSC: Modern European History

                      DS12
                      7M with:
                      Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

                      DS11
                      SC Level 4

                      DD9
                      3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

                      DD7/8
                      Still in SC Level 2

                      DD 4/5
                      SC Level C

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                        After this discussion last month, we decided that we will put C into the Core 1st grade and just bring in activities/slow things down as needed.

                        We have been letting him check out Level 1 readers from the library and he is doing well with them. I fill in the words he can't read yet. His goal is to be able to read one of the series that his older brothers are reading so this week we checked out Henry Huggins. My husband said he read it as a kid and thinks it will be a good fit for him. He told C that once he finishes that, doing a little each day, we'll let him tackle the other books (which are WAY over his reading level, but he will sit there for.ev.er. and sound it out because he's so set on reading them!)

                        Age-wise he would be starting 3rd grade in the fall in our state. Obviously, he's nowhere near ready for that. At the same time, he asked me last week if he could start learning Latin (he wants to talk in Latin like his brothers do with each other and their friends). I've also caught him listening in on Greek Myths during our one-room-schoolhouse style co-op and today he was thumbing through the Book of Astronomy, asking questions, saying he remembers Vega from hearing his brother recite, etc.

                        So here's my question: would it be do-able to have him in MP1 next year, but do one or two of the 3/4th grade subjects as reading/oral discussion? If we did that through MP1 and MP2, he would be ready to go into 4th for New Users when he's 10, going on 11 (October birthday). He could then repeat those subjects with the writing/memorization. This would put him only one year behind where he would be if he hadn't struggled with reading. Based on wise advice we've received, we're fine with our boys graduating a year "late".

                        Would this work, or would it be too much??
                        Jennifer
                        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                        DS16
                        MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
                        MPOA: High School Comp. II
                        HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

                        DS15
                        MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
                        MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
                        HSC: Modern European History

                        DS12
                        7M with:
                        Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

                        DS11
                        SC Level 4

                        DD9
                        3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

                        DD7/8
                        Still in SC Level 2

                        DD 4/5
                        SC Level C

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                          Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                          So here's my question: would it be do-able to have him in MP1 next year, but do one or two of the 3/4th grade subjects as reading/oral discussion? If we did that through MP1 and MP2, he would be ready to go into 4th for New Users when he's 10, going on 11 (October birthday). He could then repeat those subjects with the writing/memorization. This would put him only one year behind where he would be if he hadn't struggled with reading. Based on wise advice we've received, we're fine with our boys graduating a year "late".

                          Would this work, or would it be too much??
                          I vote "yes" for this, at least through MP 1! Keep this as a tentative plan, but, of course, re-evaluate after MP 1. Over the next year or so, you will need to see whether he begins to explode in skills or whether he evidences more areas of learning needs. If all is well, you can continue with this plan.

                          Fwiw, we tackled many studies this way. Based on interest, eagerness, and ability to receive information, my two learned much more than if I had waited for reading/spelling/writing to catch up! Just be sure to keep your focus on the basics. Those upper level studies can be so appealing, we can let the harder work slide. This is why I especially like your plan to revisit those areas with writing/memorization, rather than simply teaching orally and "moving on" without addressing actual skill development.

                          Your idea combines the best of both approaches. The plan looks like a good one to me!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                            We're in a nearly identical boat, just 1 year ahead of you.

                            My son is in 'third grade' according to the county. He turns 9 in a month. Hes currently in SC2.

                            After first semester of SC2 his reading exploded. We did FSR E between first and second semester with zero struggles. He is just blowing through second semester phonics and writing. Which leads me to ponder next year.

                            To switch to Classic Core or stay with proven success and tactics of Simply Classical?

                            My current feeling is to stick with SC, but we will start SC3 phonics and writing as soon as it is available. Even over the summer.

                            My son was thumbing through the Maga log and saw Greek Myths. We already have the reader and that's how he recognized it. He was hooked. He's like, "but I'm in third grade now, why aren't we doing this?" So, my plan is to start Greek Myths with him next year. I found some cheap audio tapes online. He's stoked

                            The key is to use his interest as momentum to improve his skills.

                            I like SC3 plan to gently introduce latin second semester. This works well for us because I have another child one year behind him, as do you. This means that when the year younger one starts Prima in second grade, the older will be at the same point (but will have had a wee bit of a head start) and they can continue on together.

                            Also remember that you can purchase the guide for both classic core 1 and simply classical 2. Use the SC guide for tips on increasing multi sensory learning as needed
                            You could also just purchase the SC phonics plans as pdf and do the same thing for less cost if you only need the phonics help.
                            Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                            DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                            DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                            DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                            We've completed:
                            Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                            Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Thinking ahead a bit

                              Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                              I vote "yes" for this, at least through MP 1! Keep this as a tentative plan, but, of course, re-evaluate after MP 1. Over the next year or so, you will need to see whether he begins to explode in skills or whether he evidences more areas of learning needs. If all is well, you can continue with this plan.

                              Fwiw, we tackled many studies this way. Based on interest, eagerness, and ability to receive information, my two learned much more than if I had waited for reading/spelling/writing to catch up! Just be sure to keep your focus on the basics. Those upper level studies can be so appealing, we can let the harder work slide. This is why I especially like your plan to revisit those areas with writing/memorization, rather than simply teaching orally and "moving on" without addressing actual skill development.

                              Your idea combines the best of both approaches. The plan looks like a good one to me!
                              Ok, we'll definitely keep an eye on how he progresses -- he's going to be so excited about this!
                              Jennifer
                              Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                              DS16
                              MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
                              MPOA: High School Comp. II
                              HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

                              DS15
                              MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
                              MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
                              HSC: Modern European History

                              DS12
                              7M with:
                              Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

                              DS11
                              SC Level 4

                              DD9
                              3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

                              DD7/8
                              Still in SC Level 2

                              DD 4/5
                              SC Level C

                              Comment

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