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Latin Placement

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    Latin Placement

    I've asked several questions lately and am getting all my orders in plan, but I want to double-check on a couple things. A reminder: I have a NT 8 year old I've decided to place in 3M (and a JrK). My 11 yr old 6th grader I'm placing in 6M with enough mods that it won't be 6M. He has ADD, above level in reading/logic/comprehension, below in skills.

    I'm asking for advice on Latin placement. The boys did Song School Latin two years ago and have been working through a book called Getting Started With Latin and Song School Latin 2 with my DH. They have some experience with conjugation and declensions and basic vocabulary. My 3M will do LCI at the 2 year pace; though, I reserve the right to speed him up if he is able. On the k-8 forum, the suggestion was to place my 6th grader in FFL. I'm concerned though about the amount of memorizing, spelling, writing, even if we do most orally and with flashcards. I need him to learn cursive, to write complete sentences, to spell an increased level, and make another years progress in math.

    Our goal for him in Latin is learning English grammar, vocabulary, root words, and making other languages more accessible. We'd like him to be able to understand Latin sayings, references, prayers, that sort of thing, but I don't expect him to do the Latin Exam or read works in Latin, unless he chooses to continue. If I put him through LCI in 2 (or 1.5 years), we have 8th up to get enough Latin in to get 2 yrs high school credit and decide what to do then (continue or switch languages).

    Advice?
    Last edited by mymommy1; 07-18-2016, 11:01 AM.
    Michelle in Central Tx
    DS 12 (4A modified), Ds 9 (4M), DS 5 (K)

    #2
    Re: Latin Placement

    Originally posted by mymommy1 View Post
    I've asked several questions lately and am getting all my orders in plan, but I want to double-check on a couple things. A reminder: I have a NT 8 year old I've decided to place in 3M (and a JrK). My 11 yr old 6th grader I'm placing in 6M with enough mods that it won't be 6M. He has ADD, above level in reading/logic/comprehension, below in skills.

    I'm asking for advice on Latin placement. The boys did Song School Latin two years ago and have been working through a book called Getting Started With Latin and Song School Latin 2 with my DH. They have some experience with conjugation and declensions and basic vocabulary. My 3M will do LCI at the 2 year pace; though, I reserve the right to speed him up if he is able. On the k-8 forum, the suggestion was to place my 6th grader in FFL. I'm concerned though about the amount of memorizing, spelling, writing, even if we do most orally and with flashcards. I need him to learn cursive, to write complete sentences, to spell an increased level, and make another years progress in math.

    Our goal for him in Latin is learning English grammar, vocabulary, root words, and making other languages more accessible. We'd like him to be able to understand Latin sayings, references, prayers, that sort of thing, but I don't expect him to do the Latin Exam or read works in Latin, unless he chooses to continue. If I put him through LCI in 2 (or 1.5 years), we have 8th up to get enough Latin in to get 2 yrs high school credit and decide what to do then (continue or switch languages).

    Advice?
    This seems to be the key:
    He has ADD, above level in reading/logic/comprehension, below in skills.

    He could probably handle the vocabulary and comprehension of FFL, but he still needs to learn to write in complete sentences and spell accurately! He also needs to increase his arithmetic skills. And you're already teaching two other students.

    If you had any of these situations, FFL would be a great choice:
    1. His 6M mind coupled with 6M core language arts skills.
    2. Lots of time to teach his less-than-6M skills individually through FFL, even at a 1/2 year pace, while teaching LC1 to your 8yo.
    3. A next-oldest student in 5th, rather than 3M, so you could combine the two students for FFL.

    However, you wisely want to improve his basic skills. This will take time. You could do this through FFL, but you sound like you're leaning toward combining LC 1 at, possibly, 1.5 year pace. Do your two older students work well together? If so, the modeling and competition with spelling and writing might actually accelerate his progress. Also, with only one Latin program on your mind every day, you can spend more time to helping with those core skills through your Latin lessons. This may be a better teaching scenario.

    Only one tip: Place this combined LC Latin class at the forefront of your day. Right after your Opening and Recitations, allow your JrK to listen to the Latin recitations and then go play or work independently, while you tackle your Latin class. Plan on one full hour daily and insist on neat writing, full sentences, and correct spelling. This daily hour will change everything. (Have you read the Latin-Centered Curriculum, first edition?) This single move of one hour daily Latin class, first thing, will yield huge advantage in his English language arts abilities.


    A person might make a case either way for LC 1 or FFL, but given your goals for your son and your knowledge of him, it seems you can freely teach LC 1 this year. His background in Song School (immersion/vocabulary) and Getting Started in Latin (translation/secular) might transfer more than you think. Both children might be ready for FFL in 1.5 years. This would be an exciting jump for both of them. They can be Latin Class pals, which can build their own relationship through teamwork flash cards and other strategies to make good use of combining.



    You have plenty of flexibility with special needs, especially if he has a formal diagnosis. You might even consider deferring his graduation a year, if needed. He could dual enroll during this extension. Sometimes this takes the pressure off (of mom), so you can teach from a more restful, encouraging framework to truly build those skills.


    Either way, you have our admiration and blessing.

    Cheryl


    Simply Classical - book

    Simply Classical Curriculum

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Latin Placement

      Hi there!
      I'd vote for LC1 also. You are right to note that there's no rush. My oldest, with special needs, has been working on the MP Latin books since 2nd grade, taking 2 years for each one. At that pace, he can almost finish the First form series by high school graduation. Your son probably won't need to go that slowly, but even at that half-pace, there's plenty of room for high school language credits and the possibility of studying the Latin classics as an adult, which I wish I could do! 🙂
      Catherine

      2019-20
      DS16, 10th
      DS13, 7th
      DS11, 6th
      DD11, 6th
      DS7, 1st
      DD4, JrK
      DS 17 mos

      Homeschooling 4 with MP
      2 in classical school

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Latin Placement

        Reviving an old thread:

        I decided to start the boys in LC1. We began in August, very slowly, due to ds11's issues at the time. We just completed the Unit 1 Test. I'm loosely following the plans in 3M since I have that for my ds8. I did not get Ludere Latina or Lingua Angelica. It has become apparent, though, that I can not do lessons with these two at the same time. Ds11 is supper distracted, cuts up, and causes angst for ds8. Ds8 does not do well with competition. He is bright, hates to be wrong, and is distracted by brother.

        So,

        1. Is it feasible to do an hour with each separately? I'm thinking an hour includes Latin and EG1 (which is quick - the dictation is so helpful) and SOW for younger one. We do math and literature separately. Science, history, read-alouds, we can do together. The JrK can work with ds8.

        2. Do you think it's better to do Ludere as we go or for a bridge between LC1 and FFL? I'm not in a real hurry to finish, just keep progressing.

        3. I didn't take your advice and have them write it all, spell it, etc. I have to change that. That part is very hard for him, so I loose my patience and do oral lessons. I have not been having either do the copying of words that's supposed to be done 3 times per lesson. (I know!) We are getting a large white-board, so I'll have him try it on their. Any other ideas?

        Thanks anyone that can help!
        Michelle in Central Tx
        DS 12 (4A modified), Ds 9 (4M), DS 5 (K)

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Latin Placement

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          Originally posted by mymommy1 View Post
          Reviving an old thread:

          I decided to start the boys in LC1. We began in August, very slowly, due to ds11's issues at the time. We just completed the Unit 1 Test. I'm loosely following the plans in 3M since I have that for my ds8. I did not get Ludere Latina or Lingua Angelica. It has become apparent, though, that I can not do lessons with these two at the same time. Ds11 is supper distracted, cuts up, and causes angst for ds8. Ds8 does not do well with competition. He is bright, hates to be wrong, and is distracted by brother.

          So,

          1. Is it feasible to do an hour with each separately? I'm thinking an hour includes Latin and EG1 (which is quick - the dictation is so helpful) and SOW for younger one. We do math and literature separately. Science, history, read-alouds, we can do together. The JrK can work with ds8.

          2. Do you think it's better to do Ludere as we go or for a bridge between LC1 and FFL? I'm not in a real hurry to finish, just keep progressing.

          3. I didn't take your advice and have them write it all, spell it, etc. I have to change that. That part is very hard for him, so I loose my patience and do oral lessons. I have not been having either do the copying of words that's supposed to be done 3 times per lesson. (I know!) We are getting a large white-board, so I'll have him try it on their. Any other ideas?

          Thanks anyone that can help!

          1. Yes! This could work well for your two younger children. It sounds like the 8yo needs to study apart from the older. (At least you tried! Now you know.) This sounds like a good plan.

          2. We preferred using Ludere after each lesson for review. Some (e.g., grammar-based crosswords) were especially challenging, so we worked together on these.

          3. We found individual 3-ring binders very helpful. Each student (Michael & Michelle) had a Latin notebook in which they kept two sheets per week: Vocabulary Drill and Grammar Drill. We still have these notebooks which each student "decorated" with colorful adhesive letters to say LATIN on the binding. Michael was not a fan of writing at the time, so most of his writing was limited to Latin! I did not require writing for every line of the LC workbooks, but I did insist on writing for the drills.

          (His Vocab & Grammar are attached, I think!) He was 12yo in LC 1.


          A glimmer of hope:
          - If you haven't yet read the new SC article on teaching writing in Classical Teacher, take a few moments to read this.

          - Those years of studying Latin impact my son's vocabulary and attention to words even today. One evening after relaxing with his own piano compositions this weekend, Michael realized with a smile, "I guess I re-pose when I com-pose."


          If you can manage one hour individually with your older son for combined Latin/Grammar/Writing/Vocabulary, this may help. Remember the audio CD or DVD for review. These non-writing aids will strengthen memory of both vocabulary & grammar. Bonus: someone else is teaching!


          Cheryl

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Latin Placement

            Btw, those drill sheets are completed over three days -- same words each day. This was a HUGE accomplishment for my son.

            If you're more conscientious than I was, you will have the student write the day at the top. Then you will check these each day for both Latin & English spelling!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Latin Placement

              Thank you!
              Michelle in Central Tx
              DS 12 (4A modified), Ds 9 (4M), DS 5 (K)

              Comment

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