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Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

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    Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

    Hi!
    When I received the books for my 10 year old rising 5th grader, I realized it was too much. I have returned some, but before I order more I wanted to go over his curriculum choices and see about my expectations for him.

    Math--working through the Saxon books with the DIVE videos. This works for him, so I don't see a need to switch to R&S.

    Science--not MP, his choice of a general science text

    Latin/Spelling/Grammar/Poetry--3A with his younger sister

    Composition--he's completed lesson 6 of CC Fable with older brother--how many should we do before we switch to Narrative? He's taken to CC well (much of it completed orally) and I am eager to move on for his older brother's sake.

    Literature--4M actually reading the books and/ or 5M listening to the audiobooks

    Classical/Christian/Geography--3A with sister

    My main question for him is how to manage all the MP workbook work. Up to now, language arts and math have taken up all his available writing energy. He is diagnosed with dyslexia and ADHD and surely has dysgraphia too. All those other subjects--literature, geography, religion, history, science, we have done orally, with some illustrating at times (but he doesn't especially like drawing either).

    Since I have already purchased all the 3A workbooks for my daughter, I am wondering which ones I should purchase for him. Should I purchase all of those workbooks for him too and just rotate oral and some written, could he look on with her and answer everything orally, should I just pick one that he writes in? It's a lot of money if he ends up only writing a tiny bit in the books... Again I'm talking about the Greek myths, Timeline sketchbook, Poetry, Christian Studies, States & Capitals workbooks.

    Then there's all the literature workbooks, and in this subject he will not be doing the same books as his sister--4M is at or slightly above his reading level, 5M is his grade level... Should I just get the teacher guides and do these all orally? Is it better to go with his maturity level and listen to the books on audio, or his reading level?

    Thanks for your help!
    Catherine

    2018-19
    DS15, 9th
    DS13, 6th
    DS11, 5th
    DD11, 5th
    DS6, K
    DD3
    DS 10 mos

    Homeschooling 3 with MP
    2 using First Form series in school

    #2
    Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

    Catherine, you helped me earlier in another thread about my 11 yr old 6th grader. He struggles with writing as well.

    My plan was to go through the guides orally for each lesson, picking one important part to write each lesson (building up as we can). The guides mark which questions are on the tests, so I may have him write one of those or a discussion question. Right now, I have to write the sentence on paper, then he copies it. My plan right now is to not get him his own guides, but have him share with brother or me and write on paper. Also, he writes so large at times, he couldn't fit it in the blanks.

    I wanted to add that I always skipped MP when looking at curriculum because of the workbooks. Finally, I really looked at the samples, and thought, "Those are good. I'll just work through them orally." Then I've read several times on the forum that the classes don't have students answer every single question. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) In the teaching material in the front of the guide I've read, it says that some questions are better to do orally and to pick some to write.

    Like your son, mine needs his hand strength for math (what he can't work mentally), sometimes spelling (we do lots visually/orally), and actual composition class. However, this summer I have him getting back into cursive, and that is helping. How is your son's cursive? Also, does he type? Would he be open to learning? (So far, for DS1, it's no easier than writing, so I stopped.)
    Michelle in Central Tx
    DS 12 (4A modified), Ds 9 (4M), DS 5 (K)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

      I have found that literature is the area most easily adapted to oral work for us. In the past, we did most of the other written work, but talked through the vocabulary, comprehension, and discussion questions in the literature guides orally. When we discussed, I would have her star any question that was going to appear on a quiz or test. Those are the only ones she would write out. We put vocabulary and character notes into quizlet for her to be able to review them.
      HTH!
      Delectare Literature 6A/7M Discussion Moderator
      DD 15 - MP Logic and various Lit guides
      DD 17 - DE, spending Spring semester volunteering in Ukraine

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

        Originally posted by mymommy1 View Post

        My plan was to go through the guides orally for each lesson, picking one important part to write each lesson (building up as we can). The guides mark which questions are on the tests, so I may have him write one of those or a discussion question. Right now, I have to write the sentence on paper, then he copies it. My plan right now is to not get him his own guides, but have him share with brother or me and write on paper. Also, he writes so large at times, he couldn't fit it in the blanks.

        I wanted to add that I always skipped MP when looking at curriculum because of the workbooks. Finally, I really looked at the samples, and thought, "Those are good. I'll just work through them orally." Then I've read several times on the forum that the classes don't have students answer every single question. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) In the teaching material in the front of the guide I've read, it says that some questions are better to do orally and to pick some to write.

        Like your son, mine needs his hand strength for math (what he can't work mentally), sometimes spelling (we do lots visually/orally), and actual composition class. However, this summer I have him getting back into cursive, and that is helping. How is your son's cursive? Also, does he type? Would he be open to learning? (So far, for DS1, it's no easier than writing, so I stopped.)

        I was able to attend Sodalitas! Tanya (from MP) gave great insight into how the GUIDES (note the word guides over workbook!) are to be used! The goal of the guides is to deeply guide the student through the material, while modeling good sentence writing. At Highland Latins School, the teacher works with the class on making complete sentences and writing them on the board for the students to copy (she was specific that in 3rd and most of 4th this should be mom intensive). They do not have time to answer them all. This is not an independent subject. You do not just hand your student the "workbook". So, yes you can answer some of the questions orally, but it might not even be necessary to do all the questions (even orally), was the gist I got out of Tanya's talk?

        Edited to add: I just found the below in a conversation about SC1 and MP1, but I thought it was relevant to the question at hand...Cheryl had the top paragraph and Tanya had the second...

        Scribing
        In SC Level 1, you may still find yourself scribing for My Nature Journal. In MP1, I think you would find yourself either scribing or substituting oral work much of the time. However, if you think he is intellectually ready for MP1 and can even answer story guide questions readily, this might be worth doing. As Tanya mentioned in response to your question on the K-8 forum,

        You know what your child can do without frustration, and our study guides are laid out so that you can do the work orally if he can't write the answers down. In fact, we model everything orally in 1st-3rd grades. Everyone works as a unit in our classrooms, coming up with good sentences to answer the questions in the study guides. Then, the teacher writes the sentences on the board, and the students copy them perfectly. You can just limit the copying step. It would be nice if you could start with one written sentence answer and move up from there. You could even let him choose which sentence he wants to write down for the day.
        Last edited by howiecram; 07-14-2016, 07:29 AM.
        Christine

        (2018-2019)
        DD1 8/23/09 - SC4
        DS2 9/1/11 - SC2
        DD3 2/9/13 - MPK

        Previous Years
        DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3)
        DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK)
        DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others!)

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

          Thanks for the responses!

          He does write better in cursive than print, but it is still difficult unless he is using the 2-lined Handwriting without Tears paper. The small spaces in workbooks are very hard for him to write legibly in. I am sure when Simply Classical gets to the upper elementary levels that the student guides will have lots of space for large writing! 🙂

          So he may not need a copy of the student guides for literature and perhaps the others if he is writing any answers he does write on his 2-lined paper. I need to look again at my daughter's copies. It might be hard to study the vocabulary without his own book.

          Any thoughts on when to move from Fable to Narrative or what set of readers to use?
          Thanks again!
          Catherine

          2018-19
          DS15, 9th
          DS13, 6th
          DS11, 5th
          DD11, 5th
          DS6, K
          DD3
          DS 10 mos

          Homeschooling 3 with MP
          2 using First Form series in school

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

            Originally posted by CatherineS View Post
            what set of readers to use?
            I would think that using the 4M readers if he can actually read those would be preferable to listening to 5M readers. Did he end up doing anything else from 5M? I'd be tempted to just do 3A with 4M readers, if not.
            Michelle in Central Tx
            DS 12 (4A modified), Ds 9 (4M), DS 5 (K)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

              Hi, Catherine.

              Do you have all of your questions answered between the two forums?

              Re CC -
              I found these related tips from Tanya:

              "The accelerated Fable/Narrative plans take you through half the Fable and half the Narrative. So you will skip some lessons. It really doesn't matter which lessons you do since they are all formatted the same and have you doing the same work. When you move on to other Stages, you will begin each year with a review Fable lesson and a review Narrative lesson, so you need to keep those books with new lessons in them for review....

              We would just recommend that you not rush through each stage. Take the time to master it before moving on."

              And this: http://forum.memoriapress.com/showth...able+narrative


              Re LitGuides -
              It sounds like you might be able to accomplish more writing, reading comprehension, vocabulary, and literary analysis instruction with 4 right now. As someone mentioned, you can always move more quickly or move up to 5. This is much more encouraging than needing to drop down!

              If you purchase his own guide for him, you can adapt in any of these ways:

              1. Have him create vocabulary cards.
              My children enjoyed doing this. They kept their cards in a recipe-type card box. For some reason, this was easier for them than writing vocabulary words in a book. Cards allow for easier vocabulary review than turning back through the pages.

              2. Help him create a Literature Notebook.
              This could be wide-ruled spiral, three-ring notebook with wide-ruled paper, or a wide-ruled composition book. You'll want a single storage place for any written work that occurs outside of the guide. This is also a nice record of accomplishments at the end of the year.

              3. Mark his writing expectations.
              Look ahead and place an asterisk by the places he will write in the guide. Instruct him that all other work will be oral. This may relieve any anxieties when he looks through the guide. Sometimes I marked "Stop Day One," etc. at stopping points. This helped those feelings of being overwhelmed by an entire writing book.


              The key will be daily good, edited writing.


              Let us know if we can help further -

              Cheryl

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Workbook Expectations for struggling 5th grader

                Yes, thank you, I have all my questions answered now!

                4th grade lit will be the best fit, I do think I will have copies of the guide for him (looking through them there are plenty of multiple choice/fill in the blank exercises too, which will be doable for him). Then for the sentence writing, I'll have a separate notebook.

                While I don't want to rush through the CC, the boys caught onto it surprisingly quickly, so I think I'll go ahead with the 5M plans for CC Narrative, since they begin with at least 2, maybe 4 weeks of Fable review.
                Catherine

                2018-19
                DS15, 9th
                DS13, 6th
                DS11, 5th
                DD11, 5th
                DS6, K
                DD3
                DS 10 mos

                Homeschooling 3 with MP
                2 using First Form series in school

                Comment

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