SC 1 vs. MP K

[cherylswope]

'Tis the season for curriculum decisions!

We just received a private question about SC 1 and MP K, similarities and differences. We offer here a separate thread on the topic, so others can find this more easily in the future. For convenience, we include assorted reviews and past threads with related discussions.

Note: "Curriculum" = the subjects comprising a course of study. Some homeschoolers seem curriculum-averse, but eventually everyone provides a curriculum, whether intentional or not.

The Simply Classical Curriculum intends to provide a uniquely integrated-yet-individualized, cohesive course of study for the child with special learning needs while employing researched special-education strategies to address our students' challenges.


A Basic Comparison of SC 1 and MP K
Similarities
-A student may transfer successfully to MP 1 from either program. See tips below.
-Both provide clear introductions to reading, writing, and arithmetic.
-Both offer enrichment in music, art, science, poetry, and literature.
-Both are 5-day programs that can be taught as 4-day, if you combine lessons.
-Both are customizable, so you can swap levels of reading or math up or down as needed.
-Both offer recitations, copybook, and other expected elements of a classical curriculum.
-Both are modeled after the excellent curriculum of Highlands Latin School.
-Both offer Individual Lesson Plans for anyone who only wants to teach a few subjects.


Differences
-MP K follows the Highlands Latin School curriculum very closely, whereas SC 1 differs in some areas.
-With SC C as a precursor, SC 1 provides even more incremental teaching techniques for students who require more explicit, step-by-step instruction in areas such as phonological awareness.
-SC 1 includes fewer writing requirements, such as shorter verses in the Bible copybook and fewer phonics workbooks.
-SC 1's oral or multi-sensory exercises replace some written exercises.
-SC 1 includes many engaging, multi-sensory techniques for teaching reading and arithmetic. (While many MP K students do not require these, our SC students benefit from teaching with multiple modalities, providing more repetition, and engaging attention through extra practice for "over-teaching.")
-SC 1 manual includes charts with developmental strategies for improving social/emotional, cognitive, motor, and other skills outside of "school" time.
-SC 1 offers an 8-week extension for students who need extra instruction or review before progressing to MP 1 or SC 2. This is included in the SC 1 package.
-SC 1 provides even more intentional integration of subject matter to promote understanding and recognition.



Five Forum Threads about SC Level 1 - packed with more information:
1. New Curriculum Level 1
2. Some Technical Questions about Level 1
3. MP K, SC 1, or MP 1 Copybook?
4. How Important Are the Components of SC 1?
5. The Story Bible in SC 1



Seven Tips for Moving from SC Level 1 to MP 1
1. Strengthen phonics and oral reading.
2. Be sure your child's fine-motor/writing skills are strong, or be ready to adapt MP1 by substituting some oral work.
3. Add Core Skills: Phonics 2.
4. Include MPK Crafts to coordinate with SC1 read-alouds and provide extra fine-motor practice.
5. Add Scissors Books for fine-motor skills, if needed.
6. Provide even more oral reading practice with your SC1 readers and other beginning readers.
7. Keep reading aloud (fiction and non-fiction) to boost attention, comprehension, and vocabulary.


How to Share SC/MP on Facebook - www.facebook.com/memoriapress/

Free Readiness Assessments for all SC Curriculum Levels


Reviews of the SC Curriculum
1. I wanted to write and say how much I LOVE Simply Classical Curriculum! I have two special needs boys adopted from Ukraine, and I am using Level 1 with my 8 year old and Level C with my 7 year old. There isn't anything I don't like about it. The pace, the review, the interesting stories, the Bible story book, the crafts and activities, the instruction, the recitations, etc, are all just excellent! Thank you so much for your service to all us parents in putting this fantastic curriculum together! The difference that using SC (along with the therapies we are doing) has made for our boys is simply amazing! - Lillian
2. Cathy Duffy's Review
3. Rainbow Resource's extensive Review - click on "Show Full Description"
4. Multiple Reviews of SC Levels
5. Videos of a Student's Progress


Thanks-
Cheryl

Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

Simply Classical Curriculum - Voted #1 2014 in Special Needs, Old Schoolhouse Magazine - Level 2 coming very soon, Level 3 to release later in 2016

[MyLittleWonders]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Thank you Cheryl for taking the time to type all that out! I love seeing the comparison between the two. Kate's entering level C (really we are using parts of B and C depending on her developmental level in subjects). I love seeing exactly where SC 1 is advantageous for us, as on the surface they do seem similar.

[Colomama]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

This is phenomenal! What a great, succinct comparison. Very beneficial to have the other forum posts linked.

I had actually looked up an earlier reply of yours as I am preparing to transition my middle from SC 1 to standard K. I think our time spent on copywork and the Rod and Staff books from Jr. K have strengthened her fine motor skills to the point that I think she can handle the writing.

[jejegreer]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

My daughter is theoretically finishing 1st grade. She has absolutely no problems with gross motor skills or math. Her handwriting is sloppy, but not over-the-top sloppy. Her reading level, however, is very, very concerning. She can read some words that are not easy just fine, and others that are really easy she cannot read at all. Here is an example of a recent book she read with an [x] after each word she cannot read. "This is Billy[x]. Billy[now she can remember it and read it] makes a snowman. He makes a snowdog[x], too! Look! The snowman and the snowdog have come to life! The snowman takes Billy's hand[x]. Billy holds the snowdog. Now they[x] are flying! They fly high[x]." She also has a tendency to read words right to left "lot" is red as "tol" (sounds like tall), so I think she could be dyslexic. I hope this is enough for some advice. I need to place her in reading. I have the entire Simply Classical 1 curriculum, most of the MP Kindergarten curriculum and the entire MP 1st grade curriculum. I simply do not know what to do. It seems that she can read a lot of the words that are more difficult than first grade level (for example, she can read "through," "around," "along"), but then she cannot read "hand," which seems pretty simple. I am at my wit's end right now. Michelle T has recommended First Start Reading D, but I went ahead and bought FSR A through E. I found that there are words in FSR B that she consistently gets wrong. I would like to know where to start, and I would really like to follow an MP curriculum guide because it is quite apparent that my method of teaching her has not worked well at all.

[Michelle T]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Jeje,

If you are working through FSR books prior to book D and have found gaps, slow down, follow the lessons as laid out in the curriculum manual which will lend itself towards mastery. Be sure not to skip the ear training or try to move too quickly through the lessons. We want to purposefully pace slowly allowing the foundation to be solidly built.

If you really believe there could be dyslexia, rather than just a normal practice deficit, check out Susan Barton's website. It has great information regarding dyslexia including symptoms. The website and information are all free.

HTH,
Michelle T

[jejegreer]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Michelle T, Do you think I should use the SC1 or MPK lesson plans? I am feeling like I have totally failed my daughter right now, and kicking myself for not just using MP K last year because I was worried about some silly grade level. Since you are a Mother I am sure you understand how terrible one would feel if they completely messed up the most fundamental instruction for the early years of school. I feel like I do not know what exactly I did wrong, and really just want to follow one of your curriculum guides for everything other than math for whichever level she should be in. I trust your company that you have provided multiple ways to teach reading that would work out great for children of different abilities, and I know that if I just follow your plans Clara will be able to read just fine in another year or 2. I also really want to give her all the enrichment so her day is not just about reading and math and listening to The Story of the World. I think both SC1 and MPK plans do a great job of educating the whole person, but I do not know which I should use. I know, for sure, that she can read short "a" and short "i" words. That is about it. Thank you for caring, JeJe

[Colomama]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Honey, I feel your pain. Trust me. I too was too worried over the grade level on the cover. Should've just bit it and done SC1 with my son. Instead, we're just starting to work through FSR-D.

I would start using SC1 just for all of the other tactile stuff that goes with it. But, it does move slower and take longer to cover the same topics as regular Kindergarten. If you don't think she needs all that extra sensory stuff I would just move through K on schedule.

I will say one of the best things we do is flashcards. Everyday, scheduled or not. I have taken the time to go through the FSR books and wrote down every word that the student writes. I cut the index cards in half so I get twice as many from a pack. I labeled the bottom of each card with a little fsr-a followed by the lesson number so I can keep them organized. Each FSR book in its own baggie. The consistent review has done wonders for my kids automaticity.

I did the same with the words in the primary phonics books (they're listed on the first page).

[Michelle T]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Jeje,
We are here to help. First, let me assure you that it is not too late. After reading the complete thread again, I think whichever tract you decide whether it is SC 1 or MP K both will sufficiently prepare you for MP 1st. Both teach FSR. How has she done with the FSR lessons as laid out in the curriculum manual? Does she follow the lesson? Is she able to complete the written work in a reasonable time frame, and finish it relatively neatly ? Is she making progress in Book B ? If so, I think my original thought of slowing down as needed while following the lesson plans as written in the curriculum manual, will work well. If, after the assessments at the end of the book, she misses more than two or three, take a week for review focusing upon just the sounds covered in that book that she missed. Work then on speed and fluency.

If she struggles with the layout of the lessons in the curriculum manual, you might consider SC 1 which will provide even more work with the regular FSR lessons . Cheryl Swope could give more specific examples on this.


Phonics/reading should be the first subject of the day, should take the longest period of time in comparison to the other subjects and should be very teacher intensive. By teacher intensive I mean you are following the lessons in the Teacher's Guide, watching as she forms each letter and listening as she blends sounds to make words. You might need to take a snack break in the middle of the lesson just to break it up, but this should be a focus subject.

From what you describe she has a large sight word vocabulary and remembers words she is told. We need her to be able to decode. Sounds like she is very bright! Take this year to teach blending with FSR and building the phonetic foundation needed before we start back with regular books in first grade.


Blessings,
Michelle T

[cherylswope]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

My daughter is theoretically finishing 1st grade. She has absolutely no problems with gross motor skills or math. Her handwriting is sloppy, but not over-the-top sloppy. Her reading level, however, is very, very concerning. She can read some words that are not easy just fine, and others that are really easy she cannot read at all. Here is an example of a recent book she read with an [x] after each word she cannot read. "This is Billy[x]. Billy[now she can remember it and read it] makes a snowman. He makes a snowdog[x], too! Look! The snowman and the snowdog have come to life! The snowman takes Billy's hand[x]. Billy holds the snowdog. Now they[x] are flying! They fly high[x]." She also has a tendency to read words right to left "lot" is red as "tol" (sounds like tall), so I think she could be dyslexic. I hope this is enough for some advice. I need to place her in reading. I have the entire Simply Classical 1 curriculum, most of the MP Kindergarten curriculum and the entire MP 1st grade curriculum. I simply do not know what to do. It seems that she can read a lot of the words that are more difficult than first grade level (for example, she can read "through," "around," "along"), but then she cannot read "hand," which seems pretty simple. I am at my wit's end right now. Michelle T has recommended First Start Reading D, but I went ahead and bought FSR A through E. I found that there are words in FSR B that she consistently gets wrong. I would like to know where to start, and I would really like to follow an MP curriculum guide because it is quite apparent that my method of teaching her has not worked well at all.

Dear Jeje,

You are doing just fine! Our children's learning challenges can tempt us to feel like failures, but clearly you love your daughter. You want to help her learn to read. And she is reading many words already!

If you feel an apology is warranted, you can apologize to her for trying to teach her above her skill level. Ask her to forgive you for this. Then move on. Now it is time to figure out what is occurring with her reading, so you can help. And this is exactly what you are trying to do. She is only 1st-grade age. Many, many parents come to such a conclusion only after the struggling child is in his teens or adulthood!

From your description, your daughter seems to be a strong visual reader. This is very good! As you note, she can already read words like these: "through," "around," "along." Her phonics knowledge seems to lag behind her knowledge of sight words, but now you know. This is the first part of helping her.


As everyone has said, you can teach from either SC 1 or MP K. Your choice. (Do not move to MP 1!) Focus only on teaching her to read well.

As an aside - When someone asks, "What grade are you in?," you can have your daughter say "1st grade" (or whatever her age-based grade is). We did this all the way through homeschooling, K-12, because people are often just making conversation. (They do not need to hear, "She is reviewing K-1 phonics, her sight words seem above average at times, she's in ___-grade math, but in her comprehension she's in ___ grade, etc....") In other words, as you are learning, the "grade" does not matter. This was an important lesson in itself!

Your goal is simply learning.

You already own SC 1 and MP K, so just take some time to look through both of them. Which appeals to you more? If you do not have a strong preference yourself, and if you suspect she has an organic or neglected difficulty with phonics, I would teach phonics from SC 1. This will take advantage of "overlearning" techniques, so you will be sure there are no gaps this time.

Know this: Some of both SC 1 and MP K will be easy. Given your daughter's current challenges, sometimes "easy" is good. This will allow you to break into smaller pieces the parts that give her more trouble. Learning to read is hard work! In the words you described, such as "Billy" and "snowdog," there are multiple phonics skills. Take it all one step at a time. Back up ALL the way to the beginning of either SC 1 or MP K. Use these lesson plans as your tool to teach her, but do not let them limit you. For example, if Book A is solid with both phonics and spelling, review only. (Do not omit. Definitely review, but you can do this quickly if she is 100% on everything.)

You mentioned that difficulties arose in Book B. Take your time with this. Everything is sequential. Explain to her that you are building a tower. (You might even set up blocks to illustrate this.) The base of the tower cannot be one tiny block onto which many big blocks will be laid, or it will fall. You want her foundation to be large, solid, and strong for all of the rest of her learning. Refer to this image, when she struggles with B. "Remember, we're building our tower. Let's go over this again, so this block will be in its correct place."


If at any time you want a professional, in-person evaluation to address your concerns, seek this. It might help. But just keep teaching, teaching, teaching, step-by-step. Any randomness will be overwhelming and counterproductive, so just teach the phonics skills in the order provided. Praise her efforts. Notice her strengths. Relax together, so the phonics can "stick" this time.


One last tip for now:

-Separate phonics lessons from oral reading practice. Teach the phonics in a very structured, systematic manner first thing in the morning, as Michelle described. Later in the day, sit together for oral reading practice. Try to remain very relaxed in this practice time. Gently correct missed words. Make a mental (or subtly written) note of phonics patterns she misses. Review those on the board. If you do not yet have a large or mini white board, find one. This can be your best friend for reviewing words in a quick, visual way.


You can do this.

Let us know if we can help further, as you progress.

Cheryl

[howiecram]

Re: SC 1 vs. MP K

Michelle T, Do you think I should use the SC1 or MPK lesson plans? I am feeling like I have totally failed my daughter right now, and kicking myself for not just using MP K last year because I was worried about some silly grade level. Since you are a Mother I am sure you understand how terrible one would feel if they completely messed up the most fundamental instruction for the early years of school. I feel like I do not know what exactly I did wrong, and really just want to follow one of your curriculum guides for everything other than math for whichever level she should be in. I trust your company that you have provided multiple ways to teach reading that would work out great for children of different abilities, and I know that if I just follow your plans Clara will be able to read just fine in another year or 2. I also really want to give her all the enrichment so her day is not just about reading and math and listening to The Story of the World. I think both SC1 and MPK plans do a great job of educating the whole person, but I do not know which I should use. I know, for sure, that she can read short "a" and short "i" words. That is about it. Thank you for caring, JeJe

Jen,

I still vote for SC1. You may not need all the extra steps, initially (like in book A), but they are oh so helpful! Also, from SC1 - it has you read the books Phonics A to Z. It was really a game changer for me. I finally understood where MP was going with the phonics lessons. (not that I thought there was anything wrong with it before, but something finally clicked for ME). We already completed book A and I knew my daughter would not re-do something she thinks she has done already. We wrote words on the dry erase board (suggested by Cheryl). I also wrote all the words from book A on index cards (suggested in SC1) and then we played games with them. I spread out a handful of them and called out words and she "jumped" to them. I had her choose some of the words and make sentences with them. (she kind of got mad at this because she wanted to use words that were not in the group!). I dictated words and sentences from book A. We did word families....we did the silly game where you add consonants to word families (ap, at, am, etc) to create words (some are real, some are not). We did word ladders..you start with a word cat, then change one letter....cot, keep changing one letter.....cot turns to hot, hot turns to hat, hat turns to bat, etc. We read through the assessment lists, read the CP phonics lists.....and then moved on to B... We will now be adding back in Fun in the Sun and Scamp and Tramp.

Book D, in particular, I really think you need the SC1 plans. MPK plans have you doing the long vowel for a few days and then added in the blends in the same week. My daughter now has trouble with words where there is a consonant blend and vowel teams..."straight" for example.- We completed FSR B fairly quickly in the same manner as FSR A, but now we are on C and we will need to slow down again. I plan to just re-do the entire book D with the SC1 plans, when we get there! The wonderful thing about homeschooling is while you need the plans for good order, you are not a slave to them and can progress at the speed your child needs (faster or slower)!!!

This teaching reading is hard, huh? :-) *virtual hugs*