More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

[howiecram]

Hello again!

Cheryl, you are so onto of your responses, it is awesome, but I don't know if you can always put two posts together and remember everything about everyone, so, I wanted to summarize (this helps me too!) a bit about our family and ask for a few suggestions.

1) I have child born 8/23/09 (girl), 9/11/1 (boy) and 2/9/13 (girl)

Child 1 - 6 year old girl

She is a very creative, imaginative child who loves to draw and create things. However, her drawing skills/fine motor do not allow her to create what I think she would like to create. Her writing is below grade level, but not terribly behind. (she tested about 5-6 months behind at an OT/PT evaluation) She has every verbal as a toddler and most people thought she was older than she was. I did not realize how easy of a toddler she was, until I had my next two! As a baby she loved to sit on the floor and play with her toys. While her initial entrance into the world was rocky (i.e colicky), once we figured out what made her thrive, life was ok. I never really realized, again until I had two more children, about her lack of emotion/ need for touch was though. At her OT evaluation, we did learn that is because of her sensory issues. She is "anti" touch. It becomes a problem if she gets a small wound. She literally can not function for 20-30 min and it is hard to find something to calm her down or soothe her, since me holding her is not one of those things. (hopefully you don't read that I never hug her or hold her, but it is definitely not a calming method and she is definetly not that cuddly type). I have yet to find something that "works". She will sit out of an favorite activity until she feels she is ready. (My arm has a scrap, I can't go in the pool"). This past summer has not been good and after this one, we will continue with some sort of routine/schooling from now on. She recently switched her sleep needs, and it caught us all off guard. She had been my only 1 of 3 that slept all night, went to bed at a predicable time and woke at a predictable time. We also live in central Indiana, on EASTERN time, so in the summer it is light until 9-10pm. Thankfully, the days are finally starting to get shorter. It took all summer to figure out what her actual sleep needs are and now she is falling asleep and waking at a predictable time (though we need to move this to an earlier time since it is currently 10-8). She misses the K cut-off her in Indiana and we wavered on what do with her (put her, wait?). We decided last year to give homeschooling a try (long story there) but I never found anything I really "liked" so we did jump around a lot. Despite the jumping, she is definitely further ahead than she was last year and we would have never gone to a an OT/PT because it would have been missed at school. The therapist commented that her "problems" would likely have gotten her to 3rd grade with no issues and then it would have come out of "no where". So, thankful for that step. She thrives on the whole spinning/swinging thing, but music therapy was a bust. She also requires hours of "alone" time. I finally figured that out when her younger brother stopped napping and we ended her quiet time (which began when she was 3 and quit napping) and she was having epic meltdowns. I also realized her need for complete structure and predicable schedules. We purchased the K core (but I was debating K, 1st or SC1). I'm still in flux about how I feel about it. We are easily into book c, but the recommendations are to start with A, which I understand. However, because of her personality, I feel like we need to still move forward in reading. She isn't quite ready for Little Bear, but she can read a lot of the readers, etc. We had started working on phonograms like OO, OW, etc before I decided to go with MP. She does need the writing component and I love that the writing matches the phonics lessons. The math I have decided to stick with the numbers book, use the writing practice sheets (the "fun" sheets) and continue on with our Montessori Math lessons (I had originally thought we would go that route to homeschool but because quickly overwhelm, math is something I am comfortable with though!) We signed her up for a homeschool gym/swim class, she will attend religious ed classes at our local Parish and we may add in gymnastics as the OT/Pt said she needed some core work as well. Her current interests are arts and crafts, learning to sew and cake baking/decorating! (P.S. - medical conditions are asthmatic, and allergic to peanuts - the asthma requires a 2x daily preventative breathing treatment, and sometimes more if she is sick)

My son has been a bit difficult since the beginning. The short story is he has never slept well (as I mentioned in a previous post, so I won't repeat that) and was diagnosed with food severe food allergies at 15 months. We also believe he has several (which we are working through to fully determine) sensitivities (rashes, behavior, etc). He was also evaluated by a PT/OT and he had sensory issues also. He has the need for constant touch and before we sought help would crash into things/people just to get that input. He is responding very well to music therapy (through a specific kind of headphone), but we have lapsed in that recently. We will get back to that soon! His sleep habits are so erratic it is hard to get him on any type of predictable routine even, which makes it hard to have the family on one. However, despite some of his troubles, he is developmentally ahead. He was 3 at the time of his evaluation, and he was testing more like in the 3.5-4 range for most things. He has great concentration, can sit for a long period (longer than my oldest!) and is very interested in math right now. He requires an hour of music therapy a day as well as sensory input therapy (jumping, hanging, swinging, spinning, bouncing, etc). He is also signed up for the gym/swim class and we are thinking about adding gymnastics for him as well.

My youngest so far seems to be the model for what a child should act/do! She's still a toddler, so she has her own troubles, but nothing compared to the other two. She did have sleeping problems, but we are working through them (she had/has acid reflux so sometimes food bothers her).

I'd love suggestions for how to incorporate therapy with the work in Level B from SC and the K core (I also have the A level, but I bought that primarily for how to read the books to my youngest - we do it for a few minutes each evening...if there is something that strikes me that I want everyone to do we do it..otherwise I am mostly just reading the books to her with your promts. (specifically during the 30 minutes he is doing music therapy, which he protests almost daily...it works best if I use this for "alone" time with him - he is supposed to be doing fine motor skills during this time and follow it up with a gross motor skill session. - total time for this though is 45 minutes and there are 2 other kiddos who need me!) Also, you mentioned in your book something about not letting them get in their own world, even if they "needed it. My oldest must have this quiet time, but I'm hesitant after reading your statement. I'm just wondering if you mean it needs more structure to it? She MUST be alone for at least an hour though! Lastly, not sure what to do about the reading with my oldest. I was thinking about following along with the first start, only doing the core skills if needed, but I'd like to add readers immediately. The biggest hurdle with this is, by the time she gets to reading one fluently, she has basically memorized the words. This is a problem, because if I have her read a word list that contains all the words, but out of the normal order, it is like starting all over again! Thank you for the time you take to thoughtfully prepare your answers!

[cherylswope]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

Lastly, not sure what to do about the reading with my oldest. I was thinking about following along with the first start, only doing the core skills if needed, but I'd like to add readers immediately. The biggest hurdle with this is, by the time she gets to reading one fluently, she has basically memorized the words. This is a problem, because if I have her read a word list that contains all the words, but out of the normal order, it is like starting all over again!

Good morning, Christine.

Thank you for the summary!

You mentioned previously that your top priority for this year will be creating and maintaining a good schedule, especially for your older daughter's sake. Given everything you have shared in this and previous posts, these key elements seem necessary:

1. Establishing a good daytime routine and more regulated sleep habits for everyone.
2. Teaching from your daughter's full MP K Core as the foundation for her consistent, predictable academic schedule.
3. Continuing any OT/PT, gym/swim, gymnastics for your older two.
4. Reading from SC Level A with your youngest for "snuggle time" in the evenings.


Within these priorities, you have great flexibility! The sample schedules provided earlier reflect this. You can "play" with the routine initially each year (or each semester). But then try to maintain the schedule, especially for your older daughter's sake.

Your older daughter's needs must be addressed:

Rest - You could give her some craft supplies for a daily "rest time" after lunch, so she is relaxing but engaged. (Bonus: Well-organized drawing materials or craft kits will give her additional fine-motor practice in ways she enjoys.)

Phonics/K Core - If you can follow the K Core Phonics curriculum as a whole, this will help your daughter tremendously. The carefully planned combination of First Start Reading, Core Skills: Phonics, EPS Primary Phonics Readers, and Classical Phonics will help prevent guessing, memorized reading, and many other undesirable reading habits. Even if you only teach reading, printing, and arithmetic this year, teach these sequentially within the whole, purposefully organized program. Each component presents each reading skill in a visually different format, so skills are taught and reinforced in different contexts simultaneously. (Similarly, the Copybook exercises, Core Skills: Phonics student books, Arithmetic practice pages, and FSR will all assist her writing!) If you can make this the "core" of her day, you may see the very benefits you desire without needing to add anything else.

Schedule - After you finalize your general plan, create a visual overview for your daughter. Include the outside activities, a realistic weekly outline, and her own down time, so she knows she will receive this every day. Be protective of the schedule and avoid the temptation to add more. You want a good rhythm established for everyone, and this will especially help your oldest.



After you map all of your current commitments onto paper or a planner for all of your children, see if you have time for gymnastics. If you do, this might benefit your older daughter and your son - possibly in different ways. Your son can gain greater control over his body while receiving the good proprioceptive input he seems to crave. He can also expend some energy to promote his sleep! Your daughter may gain more physical confidence, strength, and coordination, and this might result in less focus on her various physical concerns.


You seem closer to a good working plan!

Thanks-
Cheryl


Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

Simply Classical Curriculum

[howiecram]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

Thank you for your wonderful responses (even though after re-reading my post full of errors you always seem to understand what people are saying!)!

One hiccup - Dad has a rotating day off. My children are young and not really into competitive sports, so we usually are looking for something to do on Saturdays, so school it is. However, because of other commitments (a religious ed class, the gym and swim, etc) we almost can't do "fun" family things on his day off, unless it is a Monday. We have something almost everyday. Though, the commitment on Thursday would be ok if we missed for a family day. So, for example, this past weekend hubby actually had Fri, Sat and Sun off. He was generous while I took a day out on Friday and did the lessons I asked him to do. This isn't always possible as we do have things that need to be done around the house, errands to run, etc. However, this week, he works all 6 days. The next week he has Monday off, then the next is Tuesday and so on. One of our primary motivators for homeschooling is this irregular schedule though and we would like to be able to "do something" every now and then. (It doesn't have to be every week though).

P.S> - we had a strange day today. My youngest was up before 6:30am and I tried to get her back to sleep, to no avail and it threw my whole day off. Anyway, we managed to get school done in a reasonable time and as a "treat" we went to an open gym at a gymnastics center. It's reasonably priced and the kids had been asking to go, so we went. IT was great and for the first time the older two could actually swing on the rope (my youngest at 2.5 had NO trouble!!). It's a big accomplishment for them and they did it for a solid 30 minutes! We had some pretty big meltdowns when we came home. I figure we had a big weekend with Daddy home and my oldest's birthday/birthday party. However, some strange "bonus" occurred. 1) She took a 2 hour quiet time and came out a new person 2) she had an actual injury, with a small amount blood and remained calm! I don't know if this is one of those cases where sometimes big is no deal and little is what causes the drama, or if as you alluded to your message about what gymnastics can do for her!

Thanks once again!

[howiecram]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

..and then there is the fact that it is really almost impossible to really stay on a schedule when there is a preschooler and toddler running around. Every.single.day starts differently. (temperament, etc) The last two days my youngest has woken up on the wrong side of the bed, and has pretty much been throwing fits over anything and everything for most of the morning. She clearly needs more attention and the "routine" is "ruined" because I need to focus more on her. Then, this morning on top of the youngest throwing these fits, my oldest is also throwing fits. She is refusing to brush her teeth, so this is throwing our "routine" off. I am moving my younger two along, but it is making things go out of order....I sometimes feel defeat by the ideals of a "schedule" even a routine because we have yet to have two days exactly the same (something we need!). - feeling frustrated this morning and ready to send oldest off to school1 (which would likely only present new problems..I know!)

[armymom]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

I don't have a lot of experience with sensory issues, but I have lots of experience with weird schedules and trying to establish a routine, so I thought I would chime in. My husband did shift work for a while, on a rotating basis of four days on and four days off with long days when he was on. Moving days off is a challenge.

First, I suggest not having a weekly routine, but a daily routine. Then you can have two kinds - daddy is home and daddy is not home. (And Sunday which is always different.) Secondly, I suggest that you think of your day not as a schedule to keep, but as a set of blocks: before breakfast, after breakfast till snack or lunch, etc. Then you can come up with a series of actions that you desire to have happen in that block. So before breakfast you get coffee and the pray and then shower and then make breakfast. Then you prioritize the items there. If the baby wakes up in a snit the shower is negotiable but not the coffee, for example. (You might be the opposite!) But, the point is that you have an order in which things are done for each block of the day, but you know what the priorities are when life enters. The idea is that you don't start the day behind schedule. Instead you are in the after breakfast block. Then next thing should be school. If discipline comes up (or illness or etc...) then you handle that, but when that is over you activate the post breakfast routine. Even if it is 11 by then. You get as far as you can and break for lunch when appropriate. Then you do the same for after lunch, after rest, after dinner, each part of the day has a routine. We have a block called going out. Some days that would be an outing with daddy and other days it would be the library or the grocery store etc, but it attempted to make getting ready to go out routine instead of a big deal that happens on Wednesday swim class. But that does require trying to schedule activities in the same time of the afternoon. This may or may not be possible for you.

Anyway, know that you are struggling because rotating schedules are hard for anyone. Also, it takes all kids a while to fall into a good routine. I have to go through the motions for weeks sometimes before it feels like we are actually in a routine. And sleep troubles are hard too. I have four kids that were poor sleepers too. I wake most mornings before 5:30 and I have two or three kids up within fifteen minutes of that. And not really happy to sit in their playpen while I pray either. I think some people have internal promtps to keep their schedules, like they are hungry right at lunch time. Others are internally erratic, but they do benefit from external routine...eventually. I try to really stick to may main posts of the day like meals, and follow and order of events for in between items, but it still takes a while to feel like people settle in and get with the program. And that is without sensory issues! It is hard, but I suggest you commit to a routine for a month or so and only evalute then, because a week or two is simply too short a time for a naturally under-regulated person to get with a program. I always felt like our sleep routines were a disaster until they worked...two months later.

I hope you find somethine here of use for you and yours.

Lena

[howiecram]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

Lena - yes thank you! A few questions about moving through until you get to the next "block" though. As you mentioned, somethings are non-negotiable. I agree that because we have days we have to be out of the house, getting dressed and brushing teeth must be done, first thing (after breakfast for us, I have a child that will not eat breakfast in his clothes (because he might spill something on them...)).

So, let's take today for example. I had planned to get up at 6:15, "before the children" but DD 2 was up at 6:08am. I tried to get her back to sleep, to no avail. I should have just taken that it was after 6 and just gotten up with her and began our routine. Coffee and prayers with 1 child (especially this one) are possible, in relative peace, even if she is cranky because she can sit on my lap (which is what she usually wants anyway if she is up early). Ok, so we have moved through before breakfast, even though not what I "planned". Now, the others are up, we are doing breakfast, which moves ok. Then, I have slated the music therapy for my son. 30 minutes of 1 on 1 time with him and the girls can play together. This, again, did not go as planned. The girls decided to join in on the candy land game he chose, but after 1 game they did move onto legos. Next, we get dressed. This goes ok, but for some reason my daughter gets stalled (oh, yes, she decided to choose this moment to teach herself how to put her hair in a ponytail...which she can not do...she looses it and that is where the breakdown ensues). I get the other two dressed and teeth brushed but now she is refusing to brush her teeth. (we had come back downstairs since she was stalling (I had explained now was not the time to teach herself to put her hair in a ponytail). After 30 minutes of protesting, she finally gets her teeth brushed. It is now 10am. This isn't so bad, except we are usually done with school by now. 10am is not a good time for her to be doing school. Lots of whiny, crying and complaining..and by 10:38 she is crying because she is hungry. (we eat lunch at 11, which I would like to move to noon though). I feel like some natural consequences should happen since she delayed getting started with school, but she kind of is probably really hungry, since she didn't eat enough food. (my mistake because she was too excited to begin the new routine, she didn't eat as much as she usually does in the morning..and rushed the other two through their breakfasts....so again it's 10:38am and everyone is whiny and crying they are hungry. We make it to 11. They eat...life is good again.

Really at 10am no school should have begun, but then again it's like she got "out of it" because SHE was not following. Do we (me) just suck it up for this day and know that this is likely not going to be habit forming? (instilling new routines in exceptionally challenging with this one) What about we get to this, I know we can do ONE of the 3 cores (reading, writing or math) and for the next week it goes on like this. Do i pick one one day and one the next day? (but this breaks "routine for her" and I can see her baulking "we always do phonics first, not math". (Oh yes, this has happened before).......

thank you all for you help. I know I sound whiny myself. :-) Just trying to figure things out and second guessing our decision in the midst to chaos.

P.S. - the afternoons are almost always much smoother because this is something that was established years ago...it's our mornings that we struggle with!

..and lastly..I'm a social person and I kind of need adult interaction...how do you accomplishing staying at home with "mom time". WE used to go to playgroups all the time, but this is clearly not possible anymore!

[cherylswope]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

Lena said it well. And while the general progression is the same (before breakfast, after breakfast, etc.), each day will be different, especially with little ones.

The key is two-fold:
1.) Have a general plan in mind - not a perfect plan, but just a few essential things you want to accomplish that day amid the essentials of meals, other physical care, and lessons. You can have an overarching plan-by-week, but you can give yourself freedom to adjust this to your husband's schedule and your own outings. If you have too many outings to achieve any form of peaceful routine, you might need to reduce these, either by number or by frequency. However, if the outings refresh all of you, keep them, but just have them in their proper place.
2.) Watch the temptation to become entirely reactive to your children's misbehavior. When we allow their tantrums to thoroughly upset everything we have planned, this unnecessarily empowers our children (and wears us out!).

We discussed this a little bit in the middle of an earlier thread.


Further, our children watch how we handle upsets, interruptions, and chaos. When we restore order, they appreciate this, even before they can verbalize it.

Lena is so right - none of this happens overnight. If we give up in frustration, we teach our children a lesson we probably do not want to be teaching them. (We've all been there!)


Regarding this:

we have yet to have two days exactly the same (something we need!). - feeling frustrated this morning

-

You have the full freedom to shift away from someone else's unnecessary and unrealistic goal of having every day look exactly alike - or even having any two days look exactly alike! Instead, as you seek to become reasonably organized, obtaining good evaluations and subsequent support for your children where needed, you can guide your children as the good teacher-mom you already are for them.

Every day we visibly "mess up" in one way or another, but even this is part of the closeness of family life. We help our children confess their wrongdoings, even as we admit our own. We ask, give, and receive forgiveness, and we carry on. You can do this, Christine.


Cheryl

[howiecram]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

I've also had the thought to just spend 4 weeks learning to live together.....no "school". We are under no regulations in this state, for children under 7. We could work on establishing our daily routines (like having breakfast, getting dressed, etc, without the pressure of the clock and see how long things really take (still an order, but definitely not by the clock). We need to establish limits (like no, we will not learn to put a ponytail in our head during "getting dressed time, help them stay focused on the actual task at hand, we frequently have people who know they are to get dressed and instead do something else that catches their eye". ) The weather is exceptionally nice right now and the winters are so dreadful that outside play seems reasonable. We could throw in a "lesson" to begin with (something from Level B and A) - more oral and maybe only 1 written thing. Then as we are more able to keep up with the house, and simply doing things that need to be done, we could add the "real" academic work, even if that takes us until October. I don't want to fall into our summer trap, but we really had no order and "that" was the real problem. I also am trying to fit into the idea that school needs to be done in the morning, but the truth is the hour and half the 2 year old is sleeping is the best time to do school (it's also right after lunch, so everyone is refreshed again) for our family at this time.

[howiecram]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

I read through that thread you mentioned Cheryl! (very helpful!) I also had a few hours (that were not at 10pm) to really look at the schedule on paper. I scrapped the whole thing, put in the commitments and started over. I determined our mornings are difficult, but need some structure. At this time, trying to do school in the morning is not in our best interest. However, we did decide about a month ago to send my son (4) to a preschool 2 days a week that also offers a stay and play for my younger daughter. I do believe my older daughter needs some very focused attention on her and I would like to allow her to explore some of her interests without the other two "getting in the way". I know so many do so well with their little preschoolers around and honestly, if I had more children (and older) I think it just might work for our family. We decided this was the best course for us this year, when we were seriously considering sending the oldest to school full time. This seemed like a good compromise this year. I added some structure to the morning routine, but there should still be lots of room for "life" and outside parks and playdates. (as the weather turns and we are stuck inside, we will adjust) 10am around our home is kind of a bewitching hour and it's pointless to try and school then. I know as the children age, we will need the morning for school, but by that time hopefully we will have all progressed in that direction. At this point in our lives, our afternoons are the ones that have always held some sort of routine, due to someone napping. This time of day seems much easier to really try and dial in on our structure. I will also work to stagger my children's wake-up times to make their personalities/needs work for us. My oldest daughter finishes her breakfast in literally 5 minutes and is ready for "something" instantly. My middle child needs almost 45 minutes to complete his breakfast. The youngest kind of can go back and forth. So, I need my son to be up before my older daughter and my younger daughter needs some one on one time right when she wakes up...so, youngest daughter up first (already naturally occurring), middle child next and oldest last seems to be the most logical. I plan to have a "morning basket time" where we will pray, read from the bible, do some poetry, talk about the letter of the week, alternate a Saint, the K "Art", and K "music". After this we will do my son's music therapy and then take care of personal hygiene. We'll do our recitations at the breakfast table. This actually makes for a pretty full morning, but if/when things run smoothly, we may have an hour -hour and half before lunch. We can go outside or do a craft, depending on the weather, etc. (or maybe actually do some housework!) After lunch my oldest can go for a quiet hour, and I will read to my younger two. Then nap time for the youngest and a quiet 1/2 hour for my son. We will do our phonics, math and copywork the last hour the toddler is napping. My son can listen to his poetry to music CD and do quiet toys (I hope!) after he finishes his written work from SC B. When we are done it will be time for music therapy again! An hour before Daddy is home, we will do a quick pick-up of the house and work on 1 "chore" of the day. When Daddy gets home, I will go to the gym!! (yeah gym time for Mommy!!!) After dinner can be a family walk or "gross motor" running/jumping, etc. The oldest two then need their breathing treatments and then the great bedtime routine begins! (including read-aloud time of 30+ minutes to the oldest 2). Somewhere in there Daddy will do Catholic Studies with my oldest. Saturday mornings will be for bill paying, more household chores, etc. If there is time we will do some of the Enrichment activities. I still feel exhausted reading that..but it's less exhausting than my 3 previous attempts at a schedule! :-)

[armymom]

Re: More suggestions for our family, especially after reading Simply Classical

I hope that your new routine plan works well. It sounds like you are being realistic about what is managable and what is not. Remember to try it for a while before you readjust. Like I said before I have often felt like a routine was a clear failure after three week and then it succeeds at six weeks. And remember, also, you are playing the long game here. It is nice to think that we can begin school in its perfect finished form, but that is not really how it works. My kids are 7,5,3, and one. We started when the oldest was three with preschool. That year was ugly. The next year was better. The year after that we moved, but she also finished K. In the same year. Ugly, but productive. Her first grade year was the first one that really looked like a good solid routine. This year got off to a fantastic start. It only took a couple of years! i don't mean to say that school didn't get done each of those years, just that four years in the school year started to flow earlier, our time commitments were more realistic, and the younger kids remembered what a routine with school looked like from last year too. Your one year old will be a lot more prepped for what homeschool family routines look like at three than you three year old now, because when he was one, no one needed school! And my plans will probably experience some issues this year and the one year old's schedule shifts. Right now he takes a long morning nap, right through most of school. If he moves that later, that will be a lot more complication to the school schdule. And we got our mornings routanized first. I am still working on afternoons. I think in a couple of years, with no toddlers, our whole life will feel different. So it is a season. A season that requires a lot of adjustment. A lot of doing the routine when it feels like no one is paying attention. But it pays off. I have three little boys. There have been days that I felt like I was yelling read alouds because there is a constant buzz in the room. And then at lunch the three year old will make a comment about a book that I was sure was over his head so he wasn't listening. The repetition matters in the end. Buzz or not, by now they revolt if we don't do all the steps in the morning! Take heart. Your efforts will bear fruit if you do not give up! Just probably not as quickly as you would like.

Lena