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New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

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    New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

    HI,
    I just joined this forum & I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone. I just began homeschooling my 14yrs old son this school year. He has high functioning autism & really struggles with abstract concepts, critical thinking, reading fluency/comprehension, below average vocabulary, etc as a result. He is currently reading at a 5th grade level & comprehending at a 3-4th grade level. I originally called your customer service dept. inquiring about your language roots book but the rep. recommended your Latin course instead. When I questioned it, she suggested I ask on this forum, so here I am. Would learning Latin be of greater benefit than just learning about roots/prefixes/suffixes at this point? Why? If so, at what level should we begin & how often should we do it? In addition, I'm a native Spanish speaker & was planning to teach him Spanish through his high school years. Wouldn't it be too much to teach Spanish & Latin CONCURRENTLY to a child with these challenges? If learning Latin proves to be of greater benefit to his mastery of the English language I am willing to forgo teaching him Spanish. Any thought/ suggestions are appreciated. TIA!

    #2
    You can also ask on the Facebook page, https://www.facebook.com/groups/722880901096649/ I cannot answer the question as I am unfamiliar with it. But there are alot of ladies on here and the facebook page that are very insightful and helpful. I hope you find the answers you are looking for. I also suggest reading the articles posted here on the Memoria Press website, many of them are very informative and/or inspiring.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Nurgeo View Post
      HI,
      I just joined this forum & I'm looking forward to getting to know everyone. I just began homeschooling my 14yrs old son this school year. He has high functioning autism & really struggles with abstract concepts, critical thinking, reading fluency/comprehension, below average vocabulary, etc as a result. He is currently reading at a 5th grade level & comprehending at a 3-4th grade level. I originally called your customer service dept. inquiring about your language roots book but the rep. recommended your Latin course instead. When I questioned it, she suggested I ask on this forum, so here I am. Would learning Latin be of greater benefit than just learning about roots/prefixes/suffixes at this point? Why? If so, at what level should we begin & how often should we do it? In addition, I'm a native Spanish speaker & was planning to teach him Spanish through his high school years. Wouldn't it be too much to teach Spanish & Latin CONCURRENTLY to a child with these challenges? If learning Latin proves to be of greater benefit to his mastery of the English language I am willing to forgo teaching him Spanish. Any thought/ suggestions are appreciated. TIA!

      Welcome!

      Yes, you are correct on all of these!

      1. Would learning Latin be of greater benefit than just learning about roots/prefixes/suffixes?

      Yes, learning Latin as a language is of greater benefit than just learning about roots, etc.


      2. "If learning Latin proves to be of greater benefit to his mastery of the English language,...."

      I appreciate this statement! So many of us who grew up without the benefits of Latin dismiss its study too readily. We deem Latin inaccessible or irrelevant, with no regard for the thousands of years Latin was integral to education!

      Thanks to newer, more friendly and systematic Latin teaching materials, we can simultaneously learn and teach Latin ourselves. Many quickly find Latin one of the most thrilling aspects of their home school, even (especially?) with special-needs students. The teaching materials assume no previous knowledge on the part of the teacher, although your own experience with Spanish will assist you greatly.


      And yes, Latin will be of greater benefit to your son's mastery of the English language. He will not only learn vocabulary to boost his English vocabulary, but he will also learn grammar in a uniquely helpful way. He will learn how language "works" and learn many more roots/prefixes/suffixes in the context of language, rather than in isolation.

      For some free reading on this topic, see Top 10 Reasons to Study Latin and these additional articles to help explore Why Study Latin.

      For much more in-depth reading, see these books: Climbing Parnassus or The Great Tradition.

      3. Wouldn't it be too much to teach Spanish & Latin CONCURRENTLY to a child with these challenges?
      Yes, at least initially. You might consider teaching two years of Latin first. This will make the study of Spanish much easier. You can then add Spanish, or you might switch to give him two years of Spanish exclusively. With a foundation in Latin, he will learn Spanish even more readily. (Bonus - a. Latin will boost his English skills and b. Prospective college admissions departments or employers will be impressed to see the Latin!)


      Where to start? Given his current skill levels, you would want to start with either Latina Christiana I (with an easier pace and more ecclesiastical focus) or First Form Latin (with a more grammatical focus). Both offer side-by-side studies of ancient Rome, if you would like to give your Latin study an historical context. You can view descriptions and Sample pages through the links. See what you think. Recommended for special needs in either program: the DVD! This will give you teaching support, clarification of pronunciation, and a clear visual aid with each lesson.



      -For a way to make all of this work, and to learn how Latin actually streamlines your home school by reducing the necessary number of "subjects," read The Latin-Centered Curriculum.

      -For ways to bring all of a classical education's timeless tenets, effective methods, and rich content to students with special needs, read Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child.


      A side note - my own teenage son (autism, learning disabilities, severe mental illness) once said something like this, "Latin is so well-ordered, it takes my boggled mind and sorts it all out!"



      Thanks-
      Cheryl


      Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child
      Cheryl Swope, M.Ed., with foreword by Dr. Gene Edward Veith

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for the responses! Cheryl, I especially appreciate all the links! What are the differences in reading level between latina christiana 1 & first form latin 1? How often should we do the lessons (daily, 3 times per week)? Besides the books & dvds are there any other materials you recommend? TIA!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Nurgeo View Post
          Thanks for the responses! Cheryl, I especially appreciate all the links! What are the differences in reading level between latina christiana 1 & first form latin 1? How often should we do the lessons (daily, 3 times per week)? Besides the books & dvds are there any other materials you recommend? TIA!
          Latina Christiana I is recommended for 3rd grade and above. FFL is recommended for 4th and above.

          If you begin with LCI, you will find some built-in review in FFL.

          I would recommend teaching 4-5 days/week and obtaining every supplement you can afford. The supplements (flash cards, grammar charts, CD, DVD) assist with memory and audio/visual input. In addition to those listed for LC1 on the website, I would add Lingua Angelica (CD only) for beautiful sacred music sung in Latin. This made Latin "come alive" for my children and me.

          Remember that rather than "adding a subject," when you make Latin the center of your classical curriculum, you will reduce time spent on such subjects as English grammar, English vocabulary, history, and religion. The Latin Centered Curriculum explains this very well.

          Check this Latin link for more information on available supplements for each program.

          Thanks-
          Cheryl

          Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

          cherylswope.com

          Comment


            #6
            Re: New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

            I homeschool four kids: 13, 9, 7 and 5.

            My 13-year-old 8th grader has two high school credits in Latin via MPOA. He and I initially got into Latin through our mutual study of Prima Latina and Latina Christiana using the books and DVDs. My 9-year-old completed LC thru MPOA last year.

            People ask me "Why Latin?" ..... and "Why Greek?", too, since my eldest is registered for Greek I starting next month.

            I am an engineer and did not know what a preposition was before I began homeschooling. I saw the value of grammar. I worked with my eldest through some of the "Language Lessons" series of books. It was so complicated, or perhaps more accurately, contradictory and confusing, IMHO. English, I have come to understand, is a difficult language to learn; both as a second language and as a first language, for children! The letter "a" for example, makes three sounds: as in the words, apple, father and apron. There are also other ways the long "A" sound can be expressed in English, such as "eigh", etc.

            As grown ups who have read a lot, we might not see this complexity. Nevertheless, it is easier to learn something when there are a limited number of consistent rules to fall back on, then when these "rules" are unclear and there seem to be a lot of exceptions that don't seem to have any reason behind them.

            So grammar in English is kinda the same as phonics in English. Not straightforward. For example, the whole "helping verb" business. I think that is confusing.

            Now that I have studied some Latin, it seems to me to be a very orderly language. It seems to me as if one day, some English-speaking person decided to try to create a structure/sense out of the conglomeration of languages that is English and chose to attempt to do so by superimposing Latin grammar rules on top of English. And the result it is kind of a mess. But that's all we've got for understanding/mastering grammar using English and English alone. I mean, I am no linguist but when I see books published claiming to be the definitive guide to English grammar and phonics I shudder! I think we are beating a dead horse here!!

            That's why people say, "you can't end a sentence with a preposition" and "no split infinitives". In Latin you literally cannot split the infinitive because it is all one word. But we do it in English all the time. E.G. "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Well, that's a "split infinitive" and should be "To go, boldly, where no man has gone before". Come to think of it, "before" is a preposition, so I guess the "proper" way to express this sentiment might be "To go, boldly, where no man has previously gone"???? I don't even know. I guess I need to study more Latin!!

            My point is, imposing Latin grammar rules, that make sense for Latin, upon the English language is helpful -------- how? Unless there is a foundation of understanding Latin grammar beforehand.

            Clearly, I am now totally sold on "Latin after phonics" and "grammar through Latin". I have seen my boys' vocabulary expand tremendously, their spelling improve tremendously, their interest in language broaden. I never would have believed that kids could pick this stuff up at such a young age but they can, and it is way easier to, e.g., learn about the parts of speech when studying a language that behaves in a fairly consistent manner. More like a programming language.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

              Originally posted by Stephanieusa1 View Post
              I homeschool four kids: 13, 9, 7 and 5.

              My 13-year-old 8th grader has two high school credits in Latin via MPOA. He and I initially got into Latin through our mutual study of Prima Latina and Latina Christiana using the books and DVDs. My 9-year-old completed LC thru MPOA last year.

              People ask me "Why Latin?" ..... and "Why Greek?", too, since my eldest is registered for Greek I starting next month.

              I am an engineer and did not know what a preposition was before I began homeschooling. I saw the value of grammar. I worked with my eldest through some of the "Language Lessons" series of books. It was so complicated, or perhaps more accurately, contradictory and confusing, IMHO. English, I have come to understand, is a difficult language to learn; both as a second language and as a first language, for children! The letter "a" for example, makes three sounds: as in the words, apple, father and apron. There are also other ways the long "A" sound can be expressed in English, such as "eigh", etc.

              As grown ups who have read a lot, we might not see this complexity. Nevertheless, it is easier to learn something when there are a limited number of consistent rules to fall back on, then when these "rules" are unclear and there seem to be a lot of exceptions that don't seem to have any reason behind them.

              So grammar in English is kinda the same as phonics in English. Not straightforward. For example, the whole "helping verb" business. I think that is confusing.

              Now that I have studied some Latin, it seems to me to be a very orderly language. It seems to me as if one day, some English-speaking person decided to try to create a structure/sense out of the conglomeration of languages that is English and chose to attempt to do so by superimposing Latin grammar rules on top of English. And the result it is kind of a mess. But that's all we've got for understanding/mastering grammar using English and English alone. I mean, I am no linguist but when I see books published claiming to be the definitive guide to English grammar and phonics I shudder! I think we are beating a dead horse here!!

              That's why people say, "you can't end a sentence with a preposition" and "no split infinitives". In Latin you literally cannot split the infinitive because it is all one word. But we do it in English all the time. E.G. "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Well, that's a "split infinitive" and should be "To go, boldly, where no man has gone before". Come to think of it, "before" is a preposition, so I guess the "proper" way to express this sentiment might be "To go, boldly, where no man has previously gone"???? I don't even know. I guess I need to study more Latin!!

              My point is, imposing Latin grammar rules, that make sense for Latin, upon the English language is helpful -------- how? Unless there is a foundation of understanding Latin grammar beforehand.

              Clearly, I am now totally sold on "Latin after phonics" and "grammar through Latin". I have seen my boys' vocabulary expand tremendously, their spelling improve tremendously, their interest in language broaden. I never would have believed that kids could pick this stuff up at such a young age but they can, and it is way easier to, e.g., learn about the parts of speech when studying a language that behaves in a fairly consistent manner. More like a programming language.
              Good morning,

              When we advocate studying Latin, we do not do so in order to "impose" Latin rules onto English. Like you said, Latin and English are two different languages. Rather, studying the more-orderly Latin allows students to understand better how language works. After seeing nouns, verbs, subjects, complements, etc., in Latin, students can more easily recognize and understand them in English. I think that is the key difference: "understanding" vs. "imposing." Does that make sense?
              Last edited by Michael; 08-31-2016, 02:45 PM.
              Michael
              Memoria Press

              Comment


                #8
                Re: New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

                Yes, it makes sense!

                Perhaps I was unclear. It seems to me there are other non-MP non-Latin based approaches to learning English grammar that seem they are "imposing" the rules.

                MP Latin classes do not approach grammar this way and I like that.

                Stephanie

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: New here- Please tell me WHY latin?

                  Originally posted by Stephanieusa1 View Post
                  I homeschool four kids: 13, 9, 7 and 5.

                  My 13-year-old 8th grader has two high school credits in Latin via MPOA. He and I initially got into Latin through our mutual study of Prima Latina and Latina Christiana using the books and DVDs. My 9-year-old completed LC thru MPOA last year.

                  People ask me "Why Latin?" ..... and "Why Greek?", too, since my eldest is registered for Greek I starting next month.

                  I am an engineer and did not know what a preposition was before I began homeschooling. I saw the value of grammar. I worked with my eldest through some of the "Language Lessons" series of books. It was so complicated, or perhaps more accurately, contradictory and confusing, IMHO. English, I have come to understand, is a difficult language to learn; both as a second language and as a first language, for children! The letter "a" for example, makes three sounds: as in the words, apple, father and apron. There are also other ways the long "A" sound can be expressed in English, such as "eigh", etc.

                  As grown ups who have read a lot, we might not see this complexity. Nevertheless, it is easier to learn something when there are a limited number of consistent rules to fall back on, then when these "rules" are unclear and there seem to be a lot of exceptions that don't seem to have any reason behind them.

                  So grammar in English is kinda the same as phonics in English. Not straightforward. For example, the whole "helping verb" business. I think that is confusing.

                  Now that I have studied some Latin, it seems to me to be a very orderly language. It seems to me as if one day, some English-speaking person decided to try to create a structure/sense out of the conglomeration of languages that is English and chose to attempt to do so by superimposing Latin grammar rules on top of English. And the result it is kind of a mess. But that's all we've got for understanding/mastering grammar using English and English alone. I mean, I am no linguist but when I see books published claiming to be the definitive guide to English grammar and phonics I shudder! I think we are beating a dead horse here!!

                  That's why people say, "you can't end a sentence with a preposition" and "no split infinitives". In Latin you literally cannot split the infinitive because it is all one word. But we do it in English all the time. E.G. "To boldly go where no man has gone before". Well, that's a "split infinitive" and should be "To go, boldly, where no man has gone before". Come to think of it, "before" is a preposition, so I guess the "proper" way to express this sentiment might be "To go, boldly, where no man has previously gone"???? I don't even know. I guess I need to study more Latin!!

                  My point is, imposing Latin grammar rules, that make sense for Latin, upon the English language is helpful -------- how? Unless there is a foundation of understanding Latin grammar beforehand.

                  Clearly, I am now totally sold on "Latin after phonics" and "grammar through Latin". I have seen my boys' vocabulary expand tremendously, their spelling improve tremendously, their interest in language broaden. I never would have believed that kids could pick this stuff up at such a young age but they can, and it is way easier to, e.g., learn about the parts of speech when studying a language that behaves in a fairly consistent manner. More like a programming language.


                  Thanks for bumping this up, Stephanie.

                  Interesting thoughts! I enjoyed reading your comments.

                  Cheryl

                  Comment

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