Rod & Staff vs Math U See

[Anita]

Just a quick query to see what an special educator's opinion would be of Rod and Staff Math versus Math U See -- pros and cons.

I ask because we purchased two sets of the (expensive!) manipulative blocks and the Primer teacher pack/workbook for my oldest at the advice of our SLP before Struggling Learner curriculum had been developed (or I had even heard of Memoria Press). We are a little less than half-way through it after about a year and-a-half of work. (He is getting better at concepts and application and we are making "good time" now after a very hectic 2014.) But I just purchased the MP Level 1 Core Package today, which includes Rod and Staff Math. I would love to pick one and stick with it. It seems easier to choose Rod and Staff, since I infer it will be part of the Core Curriculum going forward. But if Math U See is a better fit for a visual learner, as my SLP insists... Her assertion is that a "traditional" math curriculum is not as beneficial to a visual learner as MUS is. However, I assume that MP vetted R&S and found it to be a good fit for our Struggling Learners.

This Fall, we can either finish MUS Primer and retire it (and sell the blocks on eBay) while starting R&S and continuing to use it in the future. OR I can spend another $100 on the Primer workbook for my daughter (who will need it by then) and the Alpha pack for my son, who will be moving on. In that case, what do I do with R&S?

What are the merits of both curricula? Is one superior to the other? Which one integrates the best with MP Struggling Learner Curriculum?

[cherylswope]

Anita,

While there are some philosophical differences, both programs have merits. R&S will better coordinate with the Simply Classical Curriculum.

You might find this interesting:
R&S is well-known for building a strong, no-nonsense foundation with step-by-step instruction and sufficient review. However, much lesser known are the many multi-sensory tips and tools throughout the R&S Teacher Manual! These include an arithmetic flannel board with clear instructions for teaching. You will have all of these, coordinated by lesson, at your fingertips.

Even better, we added activities for the learner with special needs. Visual, auditory, and kinesthetic activities along with manipulatives, such as dot patterns, dice, and dominoes, weave throughout the Simply Classical Curriculum Level 1 lesson plans to coordinate with the R&S lessons and teaching topics. You can assure your SLP that all will combine for an intentionally multi-modal (i.e., visual/auditory/tactile) approach to your son's arithmetic lessons, if you want to switch.

However, you can also continue with MUS, if this seems better to you or to your son's therapist.


You mentioned several options including 1) all MUS or 2) all R&S. Another option would be switching to R&S and keeping your Math-U-See manipulatives. Your son may find them helpful as an adjunct to R&S Math. If he already has familiarity with these manipulatives, they may assist your teaching with R&S. Many homeschoolers have found isolated components of Math-U-See or other manipulative-based programs helpful, even if they did not use an entirely manipulative-based curriculum.


As you know, you will be the most important factor in the end, not your math curriculum. You can choose either program and be successful! Keeping your son engaged, checking his understanding, and helping him delight in the numbers, order, and patterns of arithmetic will matter most.


I hope that helps a little -

Cheryl


Simply Classical: A Beautiful Education for Any Child

[Anita]

Oh my goodness! That helps a lot! Thank you!

Am very pleased (and, bashful to say, surprised) that there are the visual and movement-related components you mentioned (I mean, of COURSE there are -- you all have done such a wonderful job thinking of the varied ways our SL's learn; I feel like smacking myself in the forehead! LOL!). Dominoes are a particularly good idea, I think. Winston will latch right on to that. And dominoes can be purchased almost anywhere for minimal cost.

While anticipating your (always helpful!) response, I did a quick search on the merits of R&S Math. It is highly praised by many homeschoolers for offering comprehensive, step-by-step, in-depth teaching with lots of review and appropriate pacing. I also read that R&S is careful to be sure each concept is mastered before moving on -- something that was good to know as I find that even on the Primer level, Math-U-See goes very briskly and is not at all like the way I learned math. This is not a bad thing, just easier to teach if I know the subject matter well.

The manipulatives are a bit of a mixed bag. Sometimes they help illustrate the point, sometimes they muddy it. In the end, as you said, it will be our engagement that determines our outcome. But knowing what I do now, I am much more inclined to go with R&S and hold on to the MUS manipulatives until we no longer need them.

....Does anyone need two complete sets of Math U See manipulative blocks?

[Cheryl in CA]

I have used MUS from Alpha through Calculus with my older sons (now adults). One of them probably would have done well with either MUS or a traditional curriculum, but one of them (visual learner) did not do well at all with traditional curriculum (Horizons and Saxon, not Rod and Staff). I didn't find MUS until this child was in 5th grade and had to start him over in Alpha to rebuild his math foundation (he "caught up" to "grade level" within a couple of years). My other son did better with MUS too even though traditional math wasn't the nightmare for him that it was for my other son. Several years ago, my son who had trouble with traditional math took the AAA driving course and found a math error in the curriculum they had been using for 10 years. The instructor didn't believe him until he showed him step by step on paper why it was wrong :-) Needless to say, I was very proud of him!

My son with special needs is very much a visual learner and is doing very well with MUS, so I will be keeping him in it. Cognitively, he is functioning at a higher level than the rest of his skills. So, even if I wanted to use Rod and Staff, I'd have to be ordering it ahead instead of using what came with the package. So, for me, it was a no brainer decision. A bonus is that I already own every level of MUS, though I would sell it and change in a minute if I thought something else would work better for him!

Could you order Alpha and use a little of both to see which works for him better? If you want to try Rod and Staff in full, then I'd keep the MUS manipulatives until you are sure that Rod and Staff will be a success. You could also keep and use the manipulatives with Rod and Staff, but many of the ways in which they are used (especially in the higher levels) are unlikely to be intuitive. My kids didn't physically use the manipulates beyond Epsilon, but being able to see concepts demonstrated with the manipulatives in the videos really helped them to understand what they were doing on paper.

[Cheryl in CA]

Oh my goodness! That helps a lot! Thank you!

Am very pleased (and, bashful to say, surprised) that there are the visual and movement-related components you mentioned (I mean, of COURSE there are -- you all have done such a wonderful job thinking of the varied ways our SL's learn; I feel like smacking myself in the forehead! LOL!). Dominoes are a particularly good idea, I think. Winston will latch right on to that. And dominoes can be purchased almost anywhere for minimal cost.

While anticipating your (always helpful!) response, I did a quick search on the merits of R&S Math. It is highly praised by many homeschoolers for offering comprehensive, step-by-step, in-depth teaching with lots of review and appropriate pacing. I also read that R&S is careful to be sure each concept is mastered before moving on -- something that was good to know as I find that even on the Primer level, Math-U-See goes very briskly and is not at all like the way I learned math. This is not a bad thing, just easier to teach if I know the subject matter well.

The manipulatives are a bit of a mixed bag. Sometimes they help illustrate the point, sometimes they muddy it. In the end, as you said, it will be our engagement that determines our outcome. But knowing what I do now, I am much more inclined to go with R&S and hold on to the MUS manipulatives until we no longer need them.

....Does anyone need two complete sets of Math U See manipulative blocks?

Just to clarify, Primer is the only level in MUS that is that way. It is an introduction to math and mastery is not required. It is also optional.

[Anita]

Thanks for the heads up! Very detailed and helpful.

Since we are so early in the homeschooling careers of all the children (2, 5 and almost 7) and they all have special needs, I am trying to keep things simple and economical. Sending things back, ordering individually, or trying to make two curriculums merge is above my pay-grade right now! So one Math is all I can handle. R&S has the approval stamp of many, and sounds more like my speed.

I have read stellar reviews of Math U See (like yours) and people genuinely love it. We have enjoyed seeing my son's progress, but it has not been easy to dive into for us. Hoping Rod & Staff will be a good fit. Will just have to test drive it and see!

Your kids sound awesome!

[Cheryl in CA]

Thanks for the heads up! Very detailed and helpful.

Since we are so early in the homeschooling careers of all the children (2, 5 and almost 7) and they all have special needs, I am trying to keep things simple and economical. Sending things back, ordering individually, or trying to make two curriculums merge is above my pay-grade right now! So one Math is all I can handle. R&S has the approval stamp of many, and sounds more like my speed.

I have read stellar reviews of Math U See (like yours) and people genuinely love it. We have enjoyed seeing my son's progress, but it has not been easy to dive into for us. Hoping Rod & Staff will be a good fit. Will just have to test drive it and see!

Your kids sound awesome!

I totally understand your wanting to keep them in the same curriculum (that's why both of my older sons switched to MUS). Thankfully, it worked out well for us, but kids are so different that it doesn't work for all. I know several families who use two (sometimes more) math curricula because what works well for one doesn't work for all. I hope R&S is a good fit! But, just to be safe, I wouldn't sell any MUS until you are sure R&S will be a good fit. There's nothing more painful than having to repurchase something you sold