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R&S Math 5

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    R&S Math 5

    Hello! My daughter is doing surprisingly well with R&S 5. She's really good at all the "fun stuff", fractions, time, money, measurements, etc. She can convert things wicked fast! . However, she is struggling a bit with long division and bigger multiplication problems. She can do them. It isn't a matter of not understanding. However, I think this is where the ADHD is "kicking in". What would you suggest to help her? It takes her a really long time to do a even 3 problems. If I sit with her, she does them error free. This becomes a problem on the tests. Now, she's still averaging 90% or higher, so it isn't like she if failing, but SHE is frustrated with the errors she makes. It is really different ones, placing the wrong number in the wrong place, carrying the wrong number (for example if the answer is 72, she carries the 2, not the 7), etc. She's also frustrated with how long it takes. I will only assign 3 problems (which often say "check your answer by switching the factors) so it becomes 6 problems. (The same is true for long division with then requires multiplication for checking). Would you just have her do 2 problems of each every day until she becomes more efficient? Any other tricks to making this smoother? (her facts are also solid...she can complete 100 facts in under 4 minutes all four operations)
    Christine

    2020/2021)
    DD1 8/23/09 - MP4 (Math 5)
    DS2 9/1/11 - SC 5/6 2 year pace
    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2/Storytime Treasures/AAR

    Previous Years
    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6
    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1
    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR)

    #2
    We had the same difficulty here. For long division I found that allowing a mnemonic, teaching the mnemonic out loud, and then saying the mnemonic together every time resulted in faster work. Eventually I was able to fade my voice while encouragjng the self-talk to continue. Example: On every page involving division I wrote in the margin:

    D
    M
    S
    B

    At first we chanted Divide, Multiply, Subtract, Bring Down. We clapped it. We chanted it again. Then we applied it. I cued before each step.

    Like you, I also reduced the number of long division and multistep multiplication to something manageable. When you start seeing careless errors, you know it is too many on paper.

    You might try 2-3 on paper and then 2-3 on the board to re-alert attention. "More is better" for attaining math fluency, but only if she can sustain accuracy. You can work up to more. Your daughter is doing so well. We don't want to discourage her!

    Comment


      #3
      Such a great thread! Thank you both! Love the margin reminder. Never heard B bring down as its own acronym. Did you use GEMS in pre algebra? I’m a dinosaur, but want to be ready for that level.
      -Victoria

      at home:
      boy - 3rd grade
      boy - 2nd grade
      boy - k/1st
      girl - toddler

      Comment


        #4
        I eventually gave up on long division with my ADHD son. Even having the acronym there (he could write it himself, too) didn't help. We still say, "Divide, multiply, subtract, bring down" as our secret code for "I love you".

        it has taken nearly two years, but he can now do long multiplication.

        it is all the steps, and things like keeping so many columns straight that lose him.. He has a good mathematical mind and can do his facts, but all the steps...!

        I haven't heard of GEMS, despite being a dinosaur myself.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
          "More is better" for attaining math fluency, but only if she can sustain accuracy.
          Thank you all for the tips. Cheryl, this little line above though reminded me when we were learning to read that extra efforts went into sustaining longer reading periods, with accuracy. I remember more frequent, but brief sessions. I might try having her start her day with 1-2 long division problems, with checking her answer (covering multiplication). Then she can do a fact form and then I can work with her and we can do a few more, THEN work on the lesson. I might then have her do 1-2 more problems right after lunch when she is refreshed again. As she gets faster, we can work to make one of those sessions longer. I think part of the problem also is that by the time she gets to "independent" work she might be spent. πŸ˜‰
          Christine

          2020/2021)
          DD1 8/23/09 - MP4 (Math 5)
          DS2 9/1/11 - SC 5/6 2 year pace
          DD3 2/9/13 -SC2/Storytime Treasures/AAR

          Previous Years
          DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6
          DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1
          DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR)

          Comment


            #6
            BTW - she is enrolled in FABLE MPOA class and has a 96%. .
            Christine

            2020/2021)
            DD1 8/23/09 - MP4 (Math 5)
            DS2 9/1/11 - SC 5/6 2 year pace
            DD3 2/9/13 -SC2/Storytime Treasures/AAR

            Previous Years
            DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6
            DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1
            DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by howiecram View Post

              Thank you all for the tips. Cheryl, this little line above though reminded me when we were learning to read that extra efforts went into sustaining longer reading periods, with accuracy. I remember more frequent, but brief sessions. I might try having her start her day with 1-2 long division problems, with checking her answer (covering multiplication). Then she can do a fact form and then I can work with her and we can do a few more, THEN work on the lesson. I might then have her do 1-2 more problems right after lunch when she is refreshed again. As she gets faster, we can work to make one of those sessions longer. I think part of the problem also is that by the time she gets to "independent" work she might be spent. πŸ˜‰
              Great idea. This is a perfect analogy!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by howiecram View Post
                BTW - she is enrolled in FABLE MPOA class and has a 96%. .
                Amazing, Christine. We're very proud of her (and you!)!

                Comment


                  #9
                  We are just getting into long division in RS 4 with MPOA around here. It's like drinking from a fire hose. I'm grateful that he has such a deep understanding of multiplication. It eases some of his anxiety. I'm actually delighted to hear, Christine, that it's still being covered in grade 5. Ha!

                  I will remember this mantra and introduce after Thanksgiving break.

                  The bringing down is the most challenging part. Lots of why? I've solved that so far saying ALL those numbers live in the division house and so they must ALL be divided....that's why we bring them down, so we can divide them too. Any better explanations for the why question?
                  Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                  DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                  DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                  DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                  We've completed:
                  Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                  Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Colomama View Post
                    We are just getting into long division in RS 4 with MPOA around here. It's like drinking from a fire hose. I'm grateful that he has such a deep understanding of multiplication. It eases some of his anxiety. I'm actually delighted to hear, Christine, that it's still being covered in grade 5. Ha!

                    I will remember this mantra and introduce after Thanksgiving break.

                    The bringing down is the most challenging part. Lots of why? I've solved that so far saying ALL those numbers live in the division house and so they must ALL be divided....that's why we bring them down, so we can divide them too. Any better explanations for the why question?
                    I guess no one has a better explanation than what you created!

                    Do you think he understands the place value within the number being divided? If he is thinking only of each numeral in isolation, Bring Down might seem merely perfunctory. For example: It would seem silly to him if he divides "4" and then "2," when the number to be divided is 42. But we're not dividing "4" and then "2;" we're dividing 40 and then when 2 more remain, we still need to divide. The physical illustration of place value might make a difference.

                    You might illustrate with Base Ten Blocks, homemade strips of paper, or a big chocolate bar divided into squares. In the case of the latter, we would especially want to be sure every remaining morsel is divided!

                    Let us know if you create a "light bulb" moment.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, I would say he has a firm grasp on the place value concept within division. We have worked through multiplying an 'expanded form' number and dividing them. I think we're just at the repetition ad nauseum phase of this new concept.
                      Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                      DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                      DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                      DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                      We've completed:
                      Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                      Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                      Comment

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