Yes, your SC 2 Wonder, Beauty, & Imagination lesson plans will include those visual Question Words cards and the comprehension questions for each book.
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Thank you MBentley!
Yes, I use the "completely wrong answer" method with my daughter too. I think she's afraid to be wrong a lot of times (she has anxiety issues as well), so it helps to loosen things up for her, but as you said, sometimes, she just doesn't know how to begin. So setting her up has helped a lot this year.
I definitely think I will use the Intro to Composition. However, I bought the IEW Bible Heroes curriculum already, and I still want to work with my daughter through that this summer. I'm not in a hurry to have her make it through by the fall or anything, but she has to have structure each day anyway, so I figured I could make some of the activities useful and productive for her learning. Plus, she loves that sense of confidence she gets because she's familiar with something. So I also make those poster visuals they suggest as well.
And I agree with you that immersion in good literature is a better treatment than other things out there. I was very disappointed in her last speech therapist that when we pulled her out of school to start homeschool, I didn't go back to try to get her another therapist. So far, the investment in good books, encouraging reading and discussion has been far more beneficial for her. So we are committed to continuing that.Leave a comment:
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Oh my goodness, her language delay was crazy just like your son, and she glossed over words too! Working with her therapist at the time, we had to go through the house, ask her to name objects and tell what we used them for. We followed up with lots of picture books as well. And actually, my husband and I are huge readers and wanted to build a good library for the girls. So we do order all of the books from MP, and go through them with the girls. So yes, we are heavy on the picture books and working on words. She's grown a LOT over the years, and I think by even doing the Jr.K curriculum with little sister, that well help to review and reinforce things for her as well.Leave a comment:
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Thank you Jen1134! It does help.
Currently, we read the selection assigned for the day, and then her homework is to read it once more that afternoon, and once in the morning before we start our lessons. She's been really good about that because she likes getting the answers right when we get to the comprehension questions. But I also don't let her see the questions in advance because she gets sooooo focused on just finding those answers that she gets really overwhelmed and ignores the other parts and details of the story. And she would have a hard time trying to focus on reading and then stopping to highlight (I do love that idea though), but maybe I can look at incorporating that at some point this year. She may be better able to handle it than I realize.
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Wow, Melissa! MBentley Good insight! You're not the only one who prompts a good answer by asking about a wrong answer! One of my child's first nonverbal "words" was to shake his head NO when I playfully asked if he was the cutest baby in the world. He loved that the sarcastic NO elicited strong disagreement and smiles from us!Leave a comment:
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Wow, I think I'm raising your daughter's male counterpart.
The real struggle with MP3 for my son is the ability to understand a question, and then structure an answer because of his expressive language issues. At 5, he tested at 3yr 3 mo for receptive / expressive understanding. It's taken me a while to learn that he actually comprehends a great deal more than I originally thought. I started testing this.
When I work with him on questions from the guides, he often gives me a deer in the headlights stare. So, I answer the question in a weird way by providing an opposite and totally wrong answer and ask him if that's right.
Real example: When I asked him to describe Charlotte the spider in Charlotte's Web, he had so much trouble getting started. Literally, he could barely formulate a sound. He would struggle with stops and starts of words. One might think he either didn't read it, didn't understand it, doesn't understand the question, or can't create an answer. So I'll ask: Is she huge, scary, and bright red? He will laugh enthusiastically and immediately tell me no...she's small and grey and nice. Since I modeled an answer - even one that was flat wrong - he is able to go from there and tell me accurately what he read, in a complete sentence no less!
Ironically, if I model a "wrong" answer, he is able to demonstrate to me that he really did read the material, understand the material, and even understand the question itself. He simply didn't know where to start with the answering.
All of his answers need scaffolding. The end result here is that his answers will look nearly identical to the guides answers because I had to scaffold them in the first place. On the upside, over the last 16 weeks, he is now able to answer some of the Who, What, When, Where type questions without any scaffolding at all - a huge improvement over last year. Some questions are just tough though, and I work to explain the question and then help him find the answer. Once I'm satisfied that he understands the questions and he can answer them, we've basically just recreated the student guide answers so - and please don't throw tomatoes anyone - I hand him my teacher guide for him to copy his answers. In so many places, it says that kids don't need to write an answer to every question in every guide - but in his case, it forces him to look at more than just content. He has to really focus on the sentences themselves. It's onerous work for him to be sure, but he's grown so much in his language usage because he has to write out these answers in great detail - for every.single.subject. All of the teacher manuals strongly advise you don't have the kid do this - but for me, it's the only way to be sure he actually "got" all of it. Secondly, I've already overtaxed his poor brain trying to come up with the answers in the first place because although he may know the answer, the expression is so painful a process. Furthermore, I put these into Quizlet too, so he can memorize both question and answer and go confidently into his tests and quizzes. He's getting solid B+ or better grades for these subjects.
We didn't start composition until a few weeks ago and I decided to pick it up in Charlotte's Web section. Intro to Composition is a selection in lieu of IEW, and utilizes the literature books they are reading so he's very familiar with the subject itself. Also, the lessons don't seem to be cumulative so much as they are the same lesson practiced over and over with new material to help kids get in the habit of creating an outline and a summary. This is very difficult for him. I realized that my use of "wrong information / correct model" works here again. Also, as we are expanding on the outline to write detailed sentences, I start putting some adjectives and verbs and short phrases on the board for him to pick from. I even include some wrong descriptors here too, just to let him see what word combinations create a right or wrong answer. I try to stay away from simple ones and he surprises me by picking very strong words and phrases to structure the sentences. I'm doing much of the composing here, but he's adding "enough" to know he has contributed to the final paragraph. This process takes an hour at least. Fortunately, it's only one day a week. The final output is awesome though.
I use audible as often as I can. I think it helps for him to both hear and read at the same time. Interestingly, he is now reading more "on his own" without the use of audible. There's a lot of reading for this grade between the read alouds and the American studies and literature, and I am having him do all of it by himself and asking him to "tell me what happened" in the chapter he read. If he can give me one descent sentence about what he read, I'm actually happy with that. Sometimes I scaffold the wrong answer model again. If he can correct me with a single descent sentence, I'll take that. That was impossible for him to do last year.
Visuals are a big deal too. If I'm describing the family structure of Abraham or the family structure of the Greek gods, I'm drawing it on the board as I'm saying it. Anything that can be described with some kind of mini-flow chart or lines or diagrams, I'm going to put them on the board. Any "rule" I create for work, I write out on the board and have him read it out loud to me. Often, if he doesn't read it, he zoned out on the "Wah -WAH-wah-Wah-WAH" of my Charlie Brown teacher's voice.
I added a visual to the Grammar. I really like IEW so I picked up their "Fix it - Grammar" as a supplement to the Grammar recitation. This is a cool visual grammar resource where you go through a single story and identify grammar components sentence by sentence. I love watching him confidently go through a sentence, quickly finding the nouns, pronouns, verbs, articles, homophones, who/which clauses, and restructure possessive pronouns. The story is engaging and I like his enthusiasm.
3rd looks "huge" and it is - especially if you have to help a kid scaffold every single answer. I take the helps where I can get them though. It's not a perfect match to the MP model, but I love his growth.
Receptive/Expressive challenges are tough. The immersion of good literature and constant bombardment of language structure is proving better treatment than any professional treatment out there. I continue to hold my belief that over the years, with the language blitzkrieg that is MP...this too can be overcome.
Good luck Mama.Leave a comment:
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MP3 is a big jump! Without anything interfering with cognition, there are huge leaps in maturity and cognition that happen at that age. Many of the concerns I had for my 2nd grader after I looked through the MP3 manual began to ease as my eldest biologically grew. With that said, serious applause for recognizing and meeting your child where she's at!
Some things that have helped my little guy who had an oral language delay: picture books! My son's vocabulary and ability to draw up an image in his mind from what he sees (or reads) is far lower than other children his age. I noticed that when we did the Rod & Staff preschool workbooks (Do It Carefully, Hearing and Helping, etc), there would be whole pictures that he could conjure no word for (like mop, wheelbarrow, clothespin, etc). Children without language delay pick up readily and easily on common vocabulary words. When I read through a picture book with my son, I point to pictures and ask him what it is. If he doesn't know, I say the word, make him say it, and ask him later what it is again. Later that day, I'll bring up that picture we looked at and ask him about that "new word." That's why I appreciated that the SC plans took my youngest through picture word books (DK and Priddy Books et al).
Don't underestimate the need to go back and bring up ample pictures and/or videos on YouTube of processes and activities that are being talked about in the books she's reading. FWIW, the LHBW book references lots of traditions and habits that the average 21st century child have no reference point to understanding. A child can readily decode a sentence, but have NO idea what is going on. I always compare language delay to a foreign language. You can say it louder, longer and more frequently, but if you don't know what it means, none of that is going to help. MP2 was such a joy for my eldest (who is also ADHD) because we really spent time searching out YouTube videos of all of the processes and time period specificities. I wish I had saved a list of videos, but we looked up everything from barn dances to fried pig tales to people doing home-smoking of meat. We went to fabric stores to see Calico prints. We looked up patterns of prairie dresses. We studies prairie schooners (there are some at the Smithsonian, of which there are videos online). We got the supplemental ABCs of Americana book.
ADHD is hard, because sometimes a child can read beautifully aloud while daydreaming. I have my eldest read silently first, then she's not thinking about how she's sounding to me. We also do the vocabulary first, and I try to get her to use the word in a sentence of her own making or use a word that makes sense to her (that might be simpler than the TM).
Recently, with our MP science, I noticed my eldest wasn't retaining what she read, so she was having a hard time filling in the study guide. It took me way too long to do what I needed to do, which was sit with her as she read and have her summarize in her own words everything she read. I asked her to visualize what it meant when she read each sentence. We went word by word, and trust me, there were a WHOLE BUNCH of words she was glossing over that she had NO idea what they meant. That's the problem with ADD: they just don't want to stop and take the time to look up words they don't know! It's funny that my eldest w/ ADD will never ask me what a word means. My youngest, who had language and speech delays, will always pipe up that he doesn't know what a word is when he hasn't seen it before or can't ascertain it from context clues. I love it! But my eldest's struggles go unnoticed, because she "appears" to understand everything because she reads and speaks so well. Funny opposites.
I haven't taught MP2 or 3 from SC plans yet, but definitely spend some time with an illustrated children's dictionary or some look and find books. If you haven't done all of the science and history supplemental readers from MPK or MP1 Enrichment, reread those and really ask on each page if she knows what some of the bigger words mean. Pictures, pictures, pictures! They have to be able to think of an image while they hear the word. As MP moves into more text-based and less illustrated passages, it's so important to break down concepts that are more complicated. And when I see that my youngest doesn't understand a passage at all, we just table that book and put it aside until later. It will resolve so much frustration. True to my youngest's delay, often if we just pick up the material in 6-8 weeks, he is easily able to tackle the skill and complete the assignment. Again, my little guy is 6 and reading hundreds of words and many of the EPS books I put in front of him, but that is far different from his level of comfort with analyzing a passage and answering questions about it.
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Thank you for your responses!
I question my own ability to go through the curriculum half-pace....basically, I'm scared I'm going to drop the ball somewhere and mess her up some kind of way, so I prefer a given guide (one of the reasons I love Memoria Press). But my husband and I both think moving to SC 5/6 is a good move. I'll go through and figure out what else I need to purchase.
Cheryl, you mentioned the visual Question Words cards. Are the Wonder, Beauty, & Imagination Lesson Plans including those cards (the link you provided)? Or should I get the curriculum manual for Level 2? And I we do have some of those read aloud books already, so I may do some summer things with the girls to help with that comprehension/language therapy bit as well. That's definitely not a bad idea!Leave a comment:
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I would switch. Constantly modifying can take such a toll on both of you!
Also, is she reading the literature as well? If at least one of those readings was hers, it may help build comprehension while the readings you do provide needed support for her in the meantime.
Some other suggestions for the literature routine:
1. Do reading notes and vocabulary first. Take the entire lesson to focus on understanding those words.
2. The following day, review those words (maybe recitation style to capitalize on her memory?) and then read the questions.
3. While reading, have her keep an eye out for the answers to those questions. Take it one at a time. She can then highlight that spot (kids love highlighters!) You will likely have to do a lot of guiding for awhile, but this approach greatly helps my teen who has always struggled with reading comprehension and it helps keep him engaged in the reading. Lack of mental engagement (common in ADHD) can contribute to comprehension difficulties, so this approach can help with that.
My brain just checked out...I hope that helps some!Leave a comment:
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Hello!
With a history of speech/language delay combined with ADHD, you are wise to modify. The question is: How much?
It seems you have at least two good options:
Option 1
Stay the course with MP Third. You already own it. You know how to adapt. You could take MP Third at half-pace and insert your own language (oral and written) aids to help her.
Option 2
Move to SC 5&6. This will give you the option of Two-Year lesson plans, which you could accelerate if she begins to progress well, or you could teach from the One-Year plans. In SC 5&6 we teach writing from Intro to Composition which draws on the literature she is already reading. This double-teaming the literature streamlines your teaching and aids her comprehension.
Regarding the literature, this is the same in both MP Third and SC 5&6. She may have read the books, but you can point out that she has not yet studied the books. She will receive the tools of comprehension: vocabulary, an understanding of character, plot, and setting; simple literary analysis, and more. Her familiarity with the books will help her! You can also use those Lit Guides to teach composition by creating answers together orally, modeling the correct written configuration of those answers on a mini whiteboard, and having her copy them directly onto her page.
For Science, I would teach from Mammals, as in MP Third and the prior level, SC 4. Include the drawing exercises but omit some of the writing as needed.
A tip: We address oral language and reading comprehension with Question Words in SC 2. Question Words are invaluable both in assisting you to teach comprehension and In helping her understand what is being asked. In the appendix of the SC 2 Curriculum Guide, you'll find large visual cards of Question Words (Who, What, Where, etc.). We work on answering in complete sentences. You need only these to add to either program, MP Third or MP 5&6:- Simply Classical Level 2 Wonder, Beauty, & Imagination Lesson Plans via this link, https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...plans-subject/. If you wanted to pair the Question Words and built-in comprehension questions with coordinating read-alouds, you could use the books from this set, https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...ead-aloud-set/, as we do in SC 2. You might combine your children for this near the end of the day! It could become enjoyable "language therapy" disguised as delightful read-alouds.
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Transitioning from MP to SC: Comprehension Issues
Hi, I'm new to this forum, and I wanted to ask for some advice for my daughter.
She is 8 yo, and we are on Week 32 of the MP Second Grade curriculum. At age 4 she was diagnosed with a severe speech delay (2yo 10 month level of receptive and expressive), but we knew she was behind at age 3. So I have worked hard to "catch her up" over the years, along with her seeing a speech therapist for a period of time (insurance issues and the public school system left a lot to be desired) and also a behavioral therapist (she was diagnosed with ADHD as well) for a year and a half. She had completed Level 4 of Hooked on Phonics before Kindergarten, and she also had very good handwriting. I pulled her out of Kindergarten mid-way through the year because of her behavior and then her grades were beginning to drop. So at that point, I ordered MP's Kindergarten curriculum, and we've been homeschooling since.
There have been a lot of challenges over the past two years, but also a lot of growth. She really enjoyed 2nd grade this year and has done well grade-wise, but she still has a hard time with comprehension - understanding what is written/said - and also in her ability to put her words together to form an answer. So for instance, to get through the read alouds (I've done this since 1st grade after the torture of trying to push through it anyway), I read the book on Monday, I then read the book and cover vocabulary on Tuesday, and then I read the book and go over the comprehension questions on Wednesday just so that she will have heard it several times and feel a bit more confident in giving an answer. But even after that, she struggles at times. I help her form sentences and write them on the board as we work through the Literature Guides as well. Overall, she has an incredible memory that she really relies on A LOT, so recitation isn't a problem, Prima Latina wasn't an issue, Spelling isn't a problem, Math isn't an issue unless she's not really paying attention to her work, and she absolutely LOVES to read and does it well. But her ability to understand things that she's reading or draw connections from the material is really poor. Even Math has posed an occasional struggle because she freaks out the moment something different/new is put in there. For instance, she was adding and subtracting 2 digit numbers perfectly, and had a problem (30-10=). She completely panicked because of the zeros in the ones place. It took a long time to calm her down and remind her that she already knows the answer, she just has to apply it to this problem.
So getting to my question(s), I ordered the MP 3 curriculum in February. After several weeks I searched through the boxes to find the curriculum manual, and my mouth dropped. I know there is no way I could get her through a whole day of that curriculum. It may be the ADHD, but she already gets antsy when she feels like things are taking too long, and she gets fatigued when it's too mentally taxing as well. But I also have a 4yo daughter that I would like to not neglect and start working with her on some things too (I bought the Jr.K curriculum for her). She loves school and learning, and I want her to continue to love it. I just know she can't handle it. So I have looked through this forum (up to page 29...lol) to see what others have advised, and I completed the Level 4 and Level 5/6 Readiness Assessment. She scored:
Level 4
Reading - 87%
Writing - 100&
Math - 100%
Language - 100%
Social - 90%
Level 5/6
Reading - 83%
Writing - 100%
Math 89%
Language - 90%
Social 81%
I know the levels are customizable, and I am so grateful for that. My husband thinks that her Reading score is close enough to just move her to 5/6. I am using the Myself and Others Curriculum with my youngest, and although I'm starting on the first level with that, I was going to make my oldest do that too starting this summer. I would like your advice though about whether 5/6 is just best or not. She's read the Literature books already, so I don't think she would like to repeat it again. I would just like to make sure we can strengthen her comprehension skills and use of language skills. Also, for the Science, what do you suggest? Go back and do the Mammals stuff or do the 5/6 option of the Rod and Staff Science book? And for the Writing, should I really move her up to 7/8 just because she scored 100%??? But because I was already nervous about her ability to handle 3rd grade writing, I purchased IEW Bible Heroes curriculum (plus the 12 hours seminar...I was trying to be thorough on my side of things), and she's working on that now. I planned to let her continue that through the summer. But now I'm confused on what to do with that subject.
So I would love to hear your insight, advice, suggestions, etc. Thank you!
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