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Traditional Spelling Phonics Trouble

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    Traditional Spelling Phonics Trouble

    I have been trying and trying Traditional Spelling, but Clara cannot get beyond the second half of the day 2 assignment where you mark the words with the symbols to show their phonetic pronunciation, or day 4 where she has to spell sounds. She just will not try, and will not do it. It causes a huge fight every day. I know that my older daughter learned spelling, and is a very good speller, by doing word lists, dictation, and reading a lot. I am really ready to throw in the towel on this one. We tried a dictation today and Clara did fantastic. She did not complain, she spelled all the words except one right (she even caught her mistake with not having the two L's in "dollar" right after writing it), and she spaced and punctuated correctly. I know that dictation of paragraphs for spelling is a Charlotte Mason idea, not a classical one. But I am starting to think that maybe Clara is meant to do a Charlotte Mason style education, at least with spelling. Am I just going off the deep end since I have been locked in my house for so long?
    JeJe Greer
    Mom to:
    Stella (7M)
    Clara (SC)

    #2
    I have to do the second part of day 2 with my son. Like (yes, I purposely used the word like) ........I sit there and do nothing, but I'm available for him to say out loud what he is doing. You might do it on a white board (or piece of paper), each step and then have her copy for now..until she feels more comfortable.
    Christine

    (2019/2020)
    DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
    DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

    Previous Years
    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

    Comment


      #3
      Sounds like she might be a natural speller — but her push-back on those parts of the TS lesson tells me that those parts are hard for her. Did her testing show any difficulties with auditory processing or her ability to hear or see the chunks in words? Have you tried giving her a reference she can work from for the colorful word exercise? You could copy the colorful word lists in the back of the TM for her to use. Even as a copywork exercise, it will help her to see the parts of each word.
      Jennifer
      Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

      DS16
      MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
      MPOA: High School Comp. II
      HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

      DS15
      MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
      MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
      HSC: Modern European History

      DS12
      7M with:
      Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

      DS11
      SC Level 4

      DD9
      3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

      DD7/8
      Still in SC Level 2

      DD 4/5
      SC Level C

      Comment


        #4
        Jeje,

        Colorful words is a hard activity. In our classes at HLS we work step-by-step through this section of the spelling. The activity is so important and when done has benefits in student reading as well. Like Christine does, we suggest you sit with your child for this activity. First have her just copy the word list working with her to find which words need syllabicated and to separate accordingly. Now use the red pencil. Go word by word having her identify and trace all vowels and vowel teams (remembering some teams may contain a consonant). Next use the blue pencil and go word by word writing over the consonant blends and teams. Lastly take your regular pencil and strike through silent e at the end of words and marking single vowels in the first syllables long or short (macron or breve). This method is outlined in the Sample Lesson Plans at the front of the Teacher Guide. But you can see from my abbreviated explanation it is best done one step at a time with your student "at the elbow." I will add that after several weeks of this step-by-step guided work students become quite comfortable and proficient in Colorful Letters and can become a bit more independent but it does take time.

        This is the last year with a focus on phonics so you want to be sure it is done thoroughly leaving no gaps!

        Blessings,

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Michelle T View Post
          Jeje,

          Colorful words is a hard activity. In our classes at HLS we work step-by-step through this section of the spelling. The activity is so important and when done has benefits in student reading as well. Like Christine does, we suggest you sit with your child for this activity. First have her just copy the word list working with her to find which words need syllabicated and to separate accordingly. Now use the red pencil. Go word by word having her identify and trace all vowels and vowel teams (remembering some teams may contain a consonant). Next use the blue pencil and go word by word writing over the consonant blends and teams. Lastly take your regular pencil and strike through silent e at the end of words and marking single vowels in the first syllables long or short (macron or breve). This method is outlined in the Sample Lesson Plans at the front of the Teacher Guide. But you can see from my abbreviated explanation it is best done one step at a time with your student "at the elbow." I will add that after several weeks of this step-by-step guided work students become quite comfortable and proficient in Colorful Letters and can become a bit more independent but it does take time.

          This is the last year with a focus on phonics so you want to be sure it is done thoroughly leaving no gaps!

          Blessings,
          Michelle T there's a history of ODD in this case, so that's why I recommended giving a reference instead of trying to work at-elbow. If copywork isn't advisable, is there another option that would allow JeJe's daughter to work independently on this? At-elbow can have bad repercussions.
          Jennifer
          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

          DS16
          MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
          MPOA: High School Comp. II
          HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

          DS15
          MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
          MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
          HSC: Modern European History

          DS12
          7M with:
          Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

          DS11
          SC Level 4

          DD9
          3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

          DD7/8
          Still in SC Level 2

          DD 4/5
          SC Level C

          Comment


            #6
            Snce I am not familiar with ODD and am trying to help out Cheryl who is speaking at GHC in a video conference, please forgive me. If working next to your daughter isn't advisable, what about you working on a large whiteboard while she is working in her book? You would be doing the same activity simultaneously. OR have her complete one section at a time. 1) Copy the words with pencil. Followed by a check of her work. 2) Trace vowels and vowel teams. You check her work. etc?

            Comment


              #7
              I made flashcards of each word with colorful letters and syllabication from the back of the book. We say spell say the word and then lay it face up on the table in a grid. We move on to the workbook. My child then looks at the words already written from the previous day, finds the matching wordcard and then copies the colorful letters for day 2 work. Is that not right? She's mastering the material, but maybe I'm not following the rules. Ha!

              This might work for you jeje....it's independent and has little room for error.
              Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

              DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
              DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
              DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

              We've completed:
              Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
              Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

              Comment


                #8
                Christine, sounds like you are adjusting the suggested methods to make them work for you which is exactly what we would suggest. Your daughter is seeing all those phonetic chunks in colors that stand out when she reads the word. By talking with her about why certain letters or group of letters are a particular color you are helping to dissect the phonetic components of the word. That is the point! Well-done and thank you for sharing an alternate method that has proven successful !

                Comment


                  #9
                  I somehow did not get notices of all of these responses. Clara was diagnosed with a specific learning disorder in spelling, so I guess it is not surprising that she does not like spelling. And yes, she is VERY OCD!!! I tried the way that Michelle first mentioned, and that did not work. I have also tried the one part at a time, and she just stops working. I do like the whiteboard idea a lot, as well as the flashcard idea. I would think that copying the colorful words from one of those sources would work well. She has no trouble actually spelling the words. It is the breaking them down into sounds that has always been a problem. We have never been able to count and clap syllables, so maybe she does have some disorder that they did not find. Currently she has Coronavirus (I am honestly not kidding you - she was diagnosed Friday), so she may be more compliant tomorrow since she will be on lots of cold medicine and acetaminophen. I will let you all know how it goes.
                  JeJe Greer
                  Mom to:
                  Stella (7M)
                  Clara (SC)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh Jeje! I am so sorry to hear about your daughter and will add her to my prayer list. As to spelling, rather than having her clap the syllables, try teaching her the few rules that correspond to the lessons and are listed in the appendix. Focus on open and closed syllables. As to the other truly using the colorful words helps later on with reading and spelling so however you can get it accomplished, do. I would say dictation and colorful words are the two most important components.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Thank you, Michelle. It is actually just like a bad cold/mild bronchitis/flu -- way better than Pneumonia.

                      ​​​​​
                      JeJe Greer
                      Mom to:
                      Stella (7M)
                      Clara (SC)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        JeJe, you have received very good advice here. Michelle T knows Traditional Spelling inside and out!

                        This is good to hear: "I do like the whiteboard idea a lot, as well as the flashcard idea. I would think that copying the colorful words from one of those sources would work well. She has no trouble actually spelling the words."

                        As for covid19, I am so sorry to hear this. We will be praying for you, for your daughter, and for your entire family.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Clara was at her worst with the COVID-19 on Saturday. She is starting to seem like Clara. Which meant that Monday we had issues doing Spelling and she would not pay any attention to me at all, and Tuesday we had screaming, hitting fits that resulted in absolutely no school. Dad is home (since he has to be because of her infection), and he was not amused. Clara spent at least an hour sitting at the table doing nothing, including no spelling. I still cannot deal with ODD. And I still have no update since I cannot get her to even try school again today since Dad is home. They are locked in a battle of wills, and she is so exhausted by it that she will not even try and is positive that all of the neighborhood kids are doing no school so why should she. I will be lucky if this child graduates by age 30.
                          JeJe Greer
                          Mom to:
                          Stella (7M)
                          Clara (SC)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Hi, JeJe. Sometimes the full stay-at-home requirement can bring even more stress to a family already struggling with something like ODD. If you have any support, such as a friend to talk to over the phone or a pastor or parent or sibling, this might be a good time to reach out. Yours is not an easy situation.

                            If I remember correctly, you're a Harvard grad and, as such, might appreciate the research behind ODD. See especially Recommendations 4 and beyond for clinicians near the end of the JAACAP link. I find it helpful to see what is recommended to clinicians for my own children's various diagnoses. Then I can apply these to our own situations. You might find something useful.

                            When we were in the throes of ODD, we also found this site very useful, https://www.empoweringparents.com/. This site is far less clinical and much easier to read. Bottom line: Changing our own patterns, which have often become ineffective by the time of a diagnosis, can be the beginning to helping the child.

                            Continued prayer for you --

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Another thought: You might check with her doctor to be certain how long she should be allowed to recover before pushing academics. Some are saying we should allow plenty of rest and two weeks for a full recovery.

                              Comment

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