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Ludere Latin, Lesson 9 Grammar Crossword

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    Ludere Latin, Lesson 9 Grammar Crossword

    Hi! My daughter is actually doing very well with LC. I purchased the Ludere puzzles knowing it was not scheduled in Special Needs because I was curious how my daughter would handle it. I am very happy I bought it, because for the most part it is just enough challenging. I simply put the words from the teacher's manual in for the derivative puzzle because she would never come up with most of those on her own. She's even been able to go through her book and figure a few out.

    However, today we came to one of those "this is hard for her moments" - resulting in a tantrum. I feel this book is necessary, because for the most part LC has actually been "easy" for her. She's mastering the grammar and vocabulary and completing all of the work nearly independently. (we do spend 15-20 min daily doing recitations and drills and such). She needs to be challenged so she can learn how to deal with challenging things WITHOUT the tantrum..but alas that part is not coming along so well.

    Anyway, where she got upset with was in the grammar crossword. She could not get over the fact that some of the nouns have "the" in front of them and some of them do not. She understands that latin has no articles, but it was confusing to her why some have it and some do not. She said "genitive is possessive, so why is it "the" war....not "war's". Perhaps this is part of the grammar she is not getting..but we don't really cover that..so I kind of agree that we are using something we have not learned? If we have learned this..please show me where I missed teaching this!

    Also..it seems inconsistent with the use of "the"....

    we have: "the sign: (gen), but then "grain" (gen) - why does one have "the" in front but not the other?

    I told her to just ignore "the" for now..but she doesn't like my answer.
    Christine

    (2021/2022)
    DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
    DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
    DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

    Previous Years
    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

    #2
    Your oldest could make an outstanding editor. We worked through all of Ludere Latine and neither of my children ever wondered about this. I can see how it could be confusing for your detail-detecting daughter.

    Regarding the genitive, she is correct that the clue could accurately include the possessive apostrophe for the English form; however, it does not. Instead, the main word is always given with only the identifying case (e.g., gen.). A good argument could be made for giving the clue in the English possessive. Though she might win this argument, at least this is consistently absent in the clues. It is possible that the writer did not want to "give away" the genitive case by indicating the possessive form each time. Regardless of the original reason, this is not a matter of your faulty teaching. On the contrary, you seem to have taught her quite well!


    Regarding the inconsistent use of articles, I can only surmise that this was a result of either context or necessity. You will encounter this throughout the course, so it will be good to lay the matter to rest now. If "ignore it" works, that is the easiest solution, but it will recur. For example, if you look at future lessons, you might see "world (nom.)" Across, and "the world (gen)" Down. This would seem to indicate that nominative case will have no articles. Not so. You might see "hairs (nom)," "hairs (acc)," and "a hair (nom)," etc. Maybe this was the context of the sentence from which the examples were pulled. Sometimes the use of articles is obvious, as in "a barbarian" or "the barbarians," but other times it seems arbitrary.

    Someone may have a better answer for you, but if it would help her, I would encourage you to let her mark the clues with articles in English before beginning the crossword puzzle. If she feels that we would not start a sentence in English with "winds (nom)" without an article, for example, then she may insert "the." While such an allowance might not be made in a classroom, you can do this in homeschooling to honor her sense of correctness and to alleviate undue tension. If it were my daughter, I would acknowledge that she makes a good case! (No pun intended.) You do not want to cater to tantrums, but you can respect her diligent observations.

    You or I might be able to dismiss an apparent incongruity with "oh, well," and move on because we have a hundred other things to do in the day. She is not currently able or willing to do this, in part because she is taking her studies seriously. In my opinion, this is largely laudable. Given her Latin studies, she will know what I mean.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you! She feels better! We also discussed how she can bring me these things without getting upset and we can work together to figure it out. (sometimes, she's just wrong or made a mistake!) I also appreciate you validating "her". I definitely feel ridiculous sometimes posting these things! While I "have" you - (it was a rough day!!) we are doing two digit multiplication. 45x18, etc. She's getting it.....However, today the math book shows you the "short cut" about not putting the 0 as a placeholder when multiplying the second digit. She pretty much refuses to do that. I am feeling like if it helps her to hold the place, this should be ok? Am I overlooking a reason to not allow her to put the 0? She again said.."why would you not put the 0??" - 138 is one-hundred-thirty-eight, and it should be one- thousand-three-hundred and eight. It's not that hard to put a zero...." I could not argue with that......just want to make sure I'm not missing something about allowing her to continue that.
      Christine

      (2021/2022)
      DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
      DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
      DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

      Previous Years
      DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
      DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
      DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

      Comment


        #4
        No need to feel ridiculous. Our children are fascinating people.

        With the zero, you might subtly appeal to her desire to be mature. Explain that this is a more grown-up way to multiply on paper. It saves time. Many people find it more useful than writing the zero. (You might exaggerate this with examples, or not.) Then you might say something like, "But it is ok if you need to write the zero there as a place marker for now. As you grow in your math abilities, you might find that you do not need to do this any more. If this happens, know that you are now officially free to omit it!"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
          No need to feel ridiculous. Our children are fascinating people.

          With the zero, you might subtly appeal to her desire to be mature. Explain that this is a more grown-up way to multiply on paper. It saves time. Many people find it more useful than writing the zero. (You might exaggerate this with examples, or not.) Then you might say something like, "But it is ok if you need to write the zero there as a place marker for now. As you grow in your math abilities, you might find that you do not need to do this any more. If this happens, know that you are now officially free to omit it!"
          Yes, I think she may begin to naturally omit it. She didn't want to multiply 45x18 together at first either. She wanted to do the 45x8 then 45x10. However, two days later and she did "do it". This one seems more challenging, so we shall see.
          Christine

          (2021/2022)
          DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
          DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
          DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

          Previous Years
          DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
          DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
          DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

          Comment


            #6
            One more defense of just using the noun without an apostrophe-s would be for translations using "of." For instance, "Son of God" could be translated Filius Dei. God in the genitive form does not have an apostrophe-s, even though it means the same thing as God's Son.
            Mama to 2

            Spring start MP1
            Summer start 5A

            Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A, SC B, SC C,
            SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

            Comment


              #7
              Just a note on Ludere....I have always considered this optional and a parent supported activity. The Ludere book is harder and covers things not even touched on in the main text. The main text states that their objectives are to introduce all of the cases, but only work with nominative. I think First Form focuses primarily on nominative and add in some accusative. Second form has added the others. As for it not mentioning the ‘s for genitive, Latina Christiana before the rewrite never explained the use of the cases at all, only the names of the cases. It only does so in a cursory manner now so I believe that is why it is listed with the desired case by the side of the word. I can’t even remember if Latina Christiana covers how to find the stem and put the noun into the different cases. Do not let your daughter get upset by that book. There is plenty of time and better teaching resources than Latina Christiana for that material coming down the road.
              Dorinda

              Plans for 2021-2022
              15th year homeschooling, 12th year with Memoria Press
              DD College Freshman
              DS 10th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata Greek Dramas
              DS 8th grade - Vita Beata Literature
              DS 3rd grade - Vita Beata Literature, Right Start F, First Form Latin

              Comment


                #8
                I would like to order Ludere Latin, too, since Christine seems to like it. Do you think I should start it with Latina Christiana in the fall? It sounds like it is hard. Should I wait until First Form?
                JeJe Greer
                Mom to:
                Stella 9th grade with half MP and half Schole Academy classes
                Clara (Combination of SC 5/6 and 4th New User)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hi, JeJe. You would not need to wait until First Form. Ludere Latine is a good companion to Latina Christiana. You could start Ludere Latine with Latina Christiana in the fall. Your daughter will be able to complete some of the exercises largely on her own but will need your help for others.

                  If you want something more independent to avoid ODD issues, you might choose Simply Classical Latin Games & Puzzles, which also corresponds perfectly to each lesson of Latina Christiana but is easier to complete. Be sure to order the Answer Key for easy grading. https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...dent-workbook/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
                    Hi, JeJe. You would not need to wait until First Form. Ludere Latine is a good companion to Latina Christiana. You could start Ludere Latine with Latina Christiana in the fall. Your daughter will be able to complete some of the exercises largely on her own but will need your help for others.

                    If you want something more independent to avoid ODD issues, you might choose Simply Classical Latin Games & Puzzles, which also corresponds perfectly to each lesson of Latina Christiana but is easier to complete. Be sure to order the Answer Key for easy grading. https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...dent-workbook/
                    I thought that the SC version was included in level 7/8? We will be doing level 5/6 for the 2020-2021 school year (we tried Classical Conversations this year, with disastrous results, so we are just now doing the end of level 4, and thus are back where we were last year at this time). Should we do the SC version next year and Ludere Latine with 7/8? Ludere is in the mail on its way here, but I could hold off on it and do Latin Games and Puzzles first.
                    JeJe Greer
                    Mom to:
                    Stella 9th grade with half MP and half Schole Academy classes
                    Clara (Combination of SC 5/6 and 4th New User)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You are correct. SC Latin Games & Puzzles is included in SC 7&8.

                      SC Latin Games & Puzzles is easier, so it might be wise to do as you suggest: Teach from SC Latin Games & Puzzles this year with the accompanying lessons in SC 5&6 Latina Christiana.

                      The following year you could do this:
                      - Substitute Ludere Latine during the introductory review.
                      - Teach from the remainder of SC Latin Games & Puzzles while actually teaching the remaining Latina Christiana lessons in SC 7&8.
                      - Use the remaining Ludere Latine puzzles to review when you finish.

                      If that seems too complicated you can evaluate when the books arrive, but I would err on the side of success by beginning with SC Latin Games & Puzzles. If she is truly craving more challenge, she will find it in Ludere Latine.

                      Of course in either case, your main emphasis will be her actual lessons in vocabulary, grammar, and derivatives. The accompanying games and puzzles will serve to assist, but not supplant, good teaching and review. For this reason, if you have not already considered the Latina Christiana DVD, you may want to do so for clear, additional instruction in the actual lessons.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I agree with Cheryl's suggestions! The crossword puzzles are rather challenging. The derivative puzzles, in particular, "I" could not come up with some of the words they have used peccadillo - I mean, where would a chid come up with that word? I just write all the words that are in the crossword puzzle on the page, and then add a few others not in the crossword puzzle.

                        In all honestly, if the SC version of the puzzles would have been available at the start of the year, I would have preferred those. My younger son is using them, and i'm very glad he can do it independently! (since he can't do much latin alone). We just got the book, so we are on lesson 10. He is starting at lesson 1, so it's a good review! I may consider Cheryl's suggestion to you, for him next year, actually!
                        Christine

                        (2021/2022)
                        DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
                        DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
                        DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

                        Previous Years
                        DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
                        DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
                        DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

                        Comment


                          #13
                          You can also do the Ludere Latina pages orally and write in the answers for the student. Sometimes it's so incredibly slow to see them fill these crossword puzzles out that as my eldest comes up with the answer, I will point to the blank where she is to write the answer. It cuts down the time to complete it by 10 minutes because I'm not hearing her call out that the answer doesn't fit when she's at 12 DOWN instead of 12 ACROSS!

                          Also, I use Ludere Latina pages as oral review, and then a week later (or on the weekend) I will assign the actual page to fill in and complete. We will also do some pages that we didn't get to over the summer, as some of the derivatives pages are not always assigned.
                          Mama to 2

                          Spring start MP1
                          Summer start 5A

                          Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A, SC B, SC C,
                          SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by enbateau View Post
                            You can also do the Ludere Latina pages orally and write in the answers for the student. Sometimes it's so incredibly slow to see them fill these crossword puzzles out that as my eldest comes up with the answer, I will point to the blank where she is to write the answer. It cuts down the time to complete it by 10 minutes because I'm not hearing her call out that the answer doesn't fit when she's at 12 DOWN instead of 12 ACROSS!

                            Also, I use Ludere Latina pages as oral review, and then a week later (or on the weekend) I will assign the actual page to fill in and complete. We will also do some pages that we didn't get to over the summer, as some of the derivatives pages are not always assigned.
                            This is extremely good advice for any crossword with Clara!
                            JeJe Greer
                            Mom to:
                            Stella 9th grade with half MP and half Schole Academy classes
                            Clara (Combination of SC 5/6 and 4th New User)

                            Comment

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