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    Not sure how to move forward (or back)

    cherylswope I was going to email you about this, but figured I would post here in case it can help anyone else. My daughter just turned 8 on Monday. Between her struggles, scheduling challenges, and my health, she's in Week 22 of Level 2 — she started that level in September of 2018.

    I'm realizing more and more that most of her reading is from memory. She has to really, really work/try several times to sound out words. I double-checked that she's seeing the proper letters and in the proper order, so I don't think we're dealing with dyslexia. It seems like she's trying to process the whole word at once; she keeps pulling sounds from different parts of the word, or sounds that aren't even in the word, and she gets herself all jumbled up. If she slows down and takes one piece at a time it goes better.

    She seemed to be doing better so I stopped the homemade review work we were doing for various teams and blends. I decided to pick it back up and we started segmenting activities and reviewing the most basic phonograms. But my health has been a rollercoaster lately and school has been inconsistent.

    I don't know how to help her given the limitations I have right now. When prepping for a recent evaluation, we realized I'm dealing with any combination of over 30 symptoms from month-to-month. With the inconsistency of school, E's emotional issues have resurfaced so we're dealing with a lot of meltdowns right now as well. From what I know, there are no good schools near us that could better help her (one of our local parochial schools gets an hour a week of Title I support).

    I'm undergoing testing over the next month, but it could be several months before we start to see improvement in my health. Are there ways I can realistically help her in the middle of this??
    Jennifer
    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

    2021-2022
    DS18: Almost done!
    DS17: MP, MPOA
    DS15: MP, MPOA
    DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
    DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
    DD9: SC3
    DD6: MPK

    #2
    The edit button isn't showing up, so I'm adding a clarification here instead: her reading-from-memory is for books where she already knows the story well. She can tell it almost word for word while looking at the book. Parts of the words, pictures, and such often clue her in if she is remembering it incorrectly. Even when reading new books, I would sometimes cover the pictures while she read so that she only had the words to work with. Word lists from Classical Phonics can be read fairly well, but I think she's relying on the sound patterns there.
    Jennifer
    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

    2021-2022
    DS18: Almost done!
    DS17: MP, MPOA
    DS15: MP, MPOA
    DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
    DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
    DD9: SC3
    DD6: MPK

    Comment


      #3
      Hi, Jennifer.

      I'm sorry to hear about your health challenges. This is rough for any mother, but especially for a homeschooling mother of seven.

      How much time could you spend each day with your daughter? I would start there. Assess what you can do realistically. Daily in small amounts is better than not at all. If she cannot receive 4-5x/week daily, brief instruction, you will continue to see guessing, memorizing, forgetting, and frustration.

      Let's say you can give her 30-45 minutes every morning. Then focus only on reading and math. If you can give her 20-30 minutes each day, make those 20-30 minutes count by focusing on reading only.

      Whatever you do, try to make your time with her the first thing in the day for the next few months (maybe March and April) so she knows what to expect. This will dramatically lessen the opposition. After all, it's "just the way it is now."

      For yourself -- Try not to see the situation as being behind, but rather a wake-up call to regroup, revamp, and refocus with her in a newly pointed, direct, and very precise way. You might (or might not) explain that you have let things slide and that this is not entirely her fault, but then explain that you intend to make her reading the priority because you know that she is fully capable of being a good student. To accomplish this, you might move back to review SC 1 or SC 2 phonics in an intensive, daily way. The Phonics Intensives tips here might help with this. Start with oral review of SC 1 Phonics/Reading if you need a comfortable, non-writing phonics review. This will jumpstart her learning. Then you could move to an accelerated review of SC 2 Weeks 1-22.

      Try to include 10-15 minutes of phonics instruction and 10-15 minutes of her own oral reading.

      Whatever you plan, plan simply. Do not let yourself be overwhelmed or flustered. Just make a plan and press on, step by step, little by little, and both of you will see encouraging results.

      When things calm down with your own health, you may consider testing for your daughter. Until then, your daily lessons will serve as pre-diagnostic assessments. You will see where she responds well, where she continues to have difficulties, and where her strengths lie. As you know, sometimes students at this age benefit from a do-over, so this situation is giving her that opportunity. With the rest of her day, you can set up independent work that frees you to teach the others. Keep this simple too. You might engage her in listening to read-alouds or audio books, playing math/number games with siblings, doing crafts by music, looking at the art cards in SC 2 and making her own representations of them.

      As always, you will bounce back after all of this settles down. Think of this as Phase 1. After you learn how to manage your own health conditions, you can ponder Phase 2. Phase 1 is plenty for now and will benefit your daughter immeasurably.


      A bonus tip: Reread the good advice from the K-8 forum (including your own!) in this thread. https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...-encouragement







      https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...ing-intensives

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
        cherylswope I was going to email you about this, but figured I would post here in case it can help anyone else. My daughter just turned 8 on Monday. Between her struggles, scheduling challenges, and my health, she's in Week 22 of Level 2 — she started that level in September of 2018.

        I'm realizing more and more that most of her reading is from memory. She has to really, really work/try several times to sound out words. I double-checked that she's seeing the proper letters and in the proper order, so I don't think we're dealing with dyslexia. It seems like she's trying to process the whole word at once; she keeps pulling sounds from different parts of the word, or sounds that aren't even in the word, and she gets herself all jumbled up. If she slows down and takes one piece at a time it goes better.

        She seemed to be doing better so I stopped the homemade review work we were doing for various teams and blends. I decided to pick it back up and we started segmenting activities and reviewing the most basic phonograms. But my health has been a rollercoaster lately and school has been inconsistent.

        I don't know how to help her given the limitations I have right now. When prepping for a recent evaluation, we realized I'm dealing with any combination of over 30 symptoms from month-to-month. With the inconsistency of school, E's emotional issues have resurfaced so we're dealing with a lot of meltdowns right now as well. From what I know, there are no good schools near us that could better help her (one of our local parochial schools gets an hour a week of Title I support).

        I'm undergoing testing over the next month, but it could be several months before we start to see improvement in my health. Are there ways I can realistically help her in the middle of this??
        Hi Jen,

        I'm so sorry you are struggling! I've been thinking of you since the last SC Moms call and hoping you would get some answers soon.

        One of the hardest things for me, like you, a busy mom with multiple serious issues in the family, is the impossibility of tackling the problems I see in front of me in an immediate and comprehensive way. That's what I really want to do, but one just cannot do that and homeschool many children and take care of a large household. One of the things my husband always has to remind me to encourage me is that yes, we are making progress, it's just SO MUCH slower than I want it to be. That's no one's fault; it's just all we can do when we are dealing with a number of difficulties and needy children at the same time.

        Right about the time we began to suspect learning disabilities in my 7 year old, I injured my back and had to go to physical therapy for 3 months. It set me back big time in getting help for my son, but there was no getting around it. I'm so glad you are prioritizing getting help for yourself. In the long run, that's going to have the most payback.

        When you do get to the point of sitting down and figuring out how best to help your daughter, I would suggest you do not dismiss the possibility of dyslexia. Not all children with dyslexia switch letters around or see them differently on the page or in 3-D, although it is a symptom. My older dyslexic son did not do that, and that's why he was almost 9 before we had him tested. Not everyone has all the possible symptoms. Being unable to read an analog clock is a key symptom, and my younger dyslexic son could tell time at an early age and loves clocks. But, trying to read from memory and processing words as a whole is THE key symptom of dyslexia. Especially if that continues after having been taught with a traditional phonics program. Your public school probably won't have any great tutoring available, but they should offer testing. I think there are some nonprofits out there that offer free dyslexia testing as well.

        We are seeing amazing progress with my 7 year old with the Barton program. If you end up wanting some materials PM me and I could probably bring something to Sodalitas.

        Praying for you!
        Catherine

        2021-22
        DS18, 12th
        DS15, 9th
        DS & DD13, 8th
        DS9, 3rd
        DD6, 1st
        DS3
        DS & DS born August 26!

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you both.

          CatherineS I didn't realize that about dyslexia. I'm hoping that doing things right this time will solve the issue; but if it doesn't you've given me more to go on. I went through our PS system for my son's preliminary testing two years ago and we were blessed with very attentive staff. He ended up not qualifying for further testing because he didn't show signs of an actual LD. They said the issues were likely from his EF difficulties. As he has improved in executive function, his academics have also improved. So at least PS testing won't be all-new territory if we end up needing it!

          cherylswope I looked at the phonics intensive and discussed things with J. I was trying to save money the first time around, so I thought we could do without the various suggested supplies for the activities. But then I wasn't looking ahead each week to see if there were alternate ways to do those activities with what we had on hand. So we just skipped most of them. #momfail

          I'm going to purchase the "Phonics A to Z" book and make sure we have all the supplies on hand from the start. This will keep me from feeling overwhelmed week-to-week and trying to "solve" that by skipping the activities. I have all the word cards and word family cards so that's a start.

          What pace would you recommend we work at? I want to make sure we do things right this time, and I know we'll have to adjust the pace as we go, but I'm not sure what pace to start with.
          Jennifer
          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

          2021-2022
          DS18: Almost done!
          DS17: MP, MPOA
          DS15: MP, MPOA
          DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
          DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
          DD9: SC3
          DD6: MPK

          Comment


            #6
            If you plan to go back to SC 1, you may move at a clip of 2-3 Phonics/Reading lessons per day, especially through FSR A, B, C. Slow to 1/day whenever you are short on time or whenever you feel you have hit a rough patch that needs extra time.

            If you plan to go back to SC 2 Week 1, you would do well to stay with one lesson per day as written.

            The above answers assume you will have only 20-30 minutes daily with your daughter for Phonics/Reading.

            I admire your determination and look forward to hearing how she is doing with her new mommy-time.

            Comment


              #7
              Got it. One more question: what other readers would you recommend? I think we'll be fine re-reading the ALS books, but she loves the Primary Phonics Readers and has memorized most of them!
              Jennifer
              Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

              2021-2022
              DS18: Almost done!
              DS17: MP, MPOA
              DS15: MP, MPOA
              DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
              DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
              DD9: SC3
              DD6: MPK

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                Got it. One more question: what other readers would you recommend? I think we'll be fine re-reading the ALS books, but she loves the Primary Phonics Readers and has memorized most of them!
                Ah, good question! Yes, given your concerns about her reading, you will want to avoid using books she has memorized.

                Ideas:
                - Any of the Primary Phonics Readers and ALS stories she has not memorized, yet which are not far beyond her current reading level.
                - Any of the books in SC Storytime or SC More Storytime collections.
                - Any of the stories in FSR C, D, E.
                - I Can Read It! Book 2, which is now included in SC 2.
                - The first three books in this Extended Lit Set in SC 2.

                Also:
                - This would be much more work to assemble but could be helpful if you have time (or if some diligent student in your home needs a project): Library books listed in your Phonics from A to Z that coordinate with the vowel she is learning at the time, such as Hop on Pop for short o.

                When she finishes SC 2, she can move to these:
                - Easy Reader Classics.
                - The final book in the Ext Lit Set for SC 2.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Do you have the Moose Moments? Also, the All About Reading Readers would be good as well. Level 1 and Level 2 would be awesome. You might consider books 2 and 3 from Level 1 and only book 1 from Level 2. Level 1 covers only CVC words, + ccvc and cvcc words. Level 2 begins teaching syllables and so the first few lessons actually teach words like "hotel" where the o is actually long because "ho" is the first syllable and it's "open". It also teaches silent E and I can't remember what else. Do you also own ALL the ALS readers? (not just the ones in K?). Lastly, if you go back and do CVC words (when we did this, we did book A in 1 week...and maybe a month for book B and C). Once you get to D...make sure you do it in the order of the book and not all scrambled up like MPK teaches. At this point, I would even skip when the teacher's guide tells you teach all the sounds of long a. (ai, ay, etc). Lastly, when you get to book D, make sure you have her read stories from Fun in the Sun, Scamp and Tramp AND the Silent E book. The tricky part is being able to go back and forth between the short vowels and long vowels, so choosing a couple of stories from each reader is almost essential. Once you get past that...then, you might try FSR E. (and you can add in the "On the Trail" ALS reader....at that point you could alternate between At the Farm, On The Trail and whatever that other reader was...).

                  My recommendation is 5 min of review every day. I personally like the word cards. So many things you can do with them to make it more fun. Then, 10-15 of the phonics lesson. Use a dry erase board for the writing if she already completed the book. I typically dictated 9-12 words everyday and had her sort them on the dry erase board. -at, - as - ad, etc ...then once more vowels are introduced I did -at, -ot, -it, etc. I would probably stop at this point. Then, find another time (use some "anchor" - right after lunch, right after dinner, or breakfast, or something) and have her read for 10-15 min from the readers. Use stories that are slightly behind her phonics work. I've actually read some evidence that more frequently, shorter lessons are best. However, I know I get overwhelmed remembering to do it.....so we never did. I do try two different times for reading though. (We are currently doing the Bible from SC2 after lunch ..I suspect with her high vocabulary she is "guessing" her way through the entire story, but it's still amazing to watch her read it - she is actually picking up some "high frequency" words)



                  Christine

                  (2021/2022)
                  DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
                  DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
                  DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

                  Previous Years
                  DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
                  DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
                  DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you!

                    She knows Frog & Toad pretty well, but Amelia Bedelia would be new. I'm going to get the I Can Read It! book and we do have Moose Moments (I love the MM books!). It looks like I can get those AAR readers on AbeBooks for under $10 each so I'm going to try to get those as well. With her memory, I need to make sure I have enough options for enough practice!
                    Jennifer
                    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                    2021-2022
                    DS18: Almost done!
                    DS17: MP, MPOA
                    DS15: MP, MPOA
                    DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
                    DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
                    DD9: SC3
                    DD6: MPK

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by CatherineS View Post

                      When you do get to the point of sitting down and figuring out how best to help your daughter, I would suggest you do not dismiss the possibility of dyslexia. Not all children with dyslexia switch letters around or see them differently on the page or in 3-D, although it is a symptom. My older dyslexic son did not do that, and that's why he was almost 9 before we had him tested. Not everyone has all the possible symptoms. Being unable to read an analog clock is a key symptom, and my younger dyslexic son could tell time at an early age and loves clocks. But, trying to read from memory and processing words as a whole is THE key symptom of dyslexia. Especially if that continues after having been taught with a traditional phonics program. Your public school probably won't have any great tutoring available, but they should offer testing. I think there are some nonprofits out there that offer free dyslexia testing as well.

                      We are seeing amazing progress with my 7 year old with the Barton program. If you end up wanting some materials PM me and I could probably bring something to Sodalitas.

                      Praying for you!
                      I'm chiming in late, but I completely agree with Catherine, Jen. When you have kids with dyslexia, you tend to have a sharper eye to pick up on cues that may indicate an issue in others.

                      You can google 'symptoms of dyslexia', or just check out the Barton website. This page is an excellent resource. She also has excellent resources for testing. We went with a local psychiatrist who is a dyslexia expert,and thankfully, it was covered by insurance.
                      Plans for 2021-22

                      Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

                      DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
                      DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
                      DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                      DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
                      DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
                      DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by DiannaKennedy View Post

                        I'm chiming in late, but I completely agree with Catherine, Jen. When you have kids with dyslexia, you tend to have a sharper eye to pick up on cues that may indicate an issue in others.

                        You can google 'symptoms of dyslexia', or just check out the Barton website. This page is an excellent resource. She also has excellent resources for testing. We went with a local psychiatrist who is a dyslexia expert,and thankfully, it was covered by insurance.

                        Those links are super helpful! Thank you so much!!
                        Jennifer
                        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                        2021-2022
                        DS18: Almost done!
                        DS17: MP, MPOA
                        DS15: MP, MPOA
                        DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
                        DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
                        DD9: SC3
                        DD6: MPK

                        Comment


                          #13
                          cherylswope I‘m trying to get everything set but have a question about Core Skills K. She aces almost every page in Core Skills 2 and can spell dictated CVC words without issues. Should we still get CS-K or use that time for other review activities?
                          Jennifer
                          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                          2021-2022
                          DS18: Almost done!
                          DS17: MP, MPOA
                          DS15: MP, MPOA
                          DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
                          DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
                          DD9: SC3
                          DD6: MPK

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                            cherylswope I‘m trying to get everything set but have a question about Core Skills K. She aces almost every page in Core Skills 2 and can spell dictated CVC words without issues. Should we still get CS-K or use that time for other review activities?
                            There would be no need for the book for instructional purposes, but if you wanted to add to her repertoire of independent work as described above, it might be useful unless it is truly far too easy.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I know this is just a random side note, but I just wanted to mention that Andrew Pudewa (the IEW guy) had a son who couldn't read until he was 12. While also doing phonics for those years, he mostly was provided with a ton of audiobooks to listen to while playing. Pudewa says that that child, to this day, is the best writer and reader out of all 7 of his kids. He credits the audiobooks--because that child couldn't read the typical bad comic books that boys that age get stuck on, but instead heard excellent language patterns. Just FYI.

                              Comment

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