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SC 5 and 6 and MP 3

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    SC 5 and 6 and MP 3

    Hello,

    I have a daughter that I am looking to start in MP3. I also have an older son got whom I think SC 5 and 6 would be a great fit.

    My son knows he has difficulties, and works along with them. However, he gets greatly discouraged when his little sister is using the same materials as him. This is especially so I'm reading and comprehension style subjects. (He has dyslexia, among other issues, and has struggled long and hard to learn to read, whereas she taught herself to read at 4 and always has her nose in a book.)

    There is significant crossover between these two programmes. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to present these materials to avoid his comparisons, or any ideas of materials I could substitute?

    Also, what are the significant differences between the two, please?

    Natalie

    #2
    Good morning, Natalie.

    You are correct that MP 3 and SC 5&6 overlap in materials. Comparisons would be more difficult to avoid when teaching these side-by-side than when teaching other MP and SC levels side-by-side. Some differences will help:

    - Science
    MP 3 teaches from Mammals, which we covered in SC 4. SC 5&6 teaches from R&S Science 3 and includes earth science and physical science, along with experiments that may appeal to him.

    - Composition
    MP 3 teaches from IEW ATFF, which involves new stories to read and comprehend. SC 5&6 teaches from MP's Intro to Composition which coordinates directly with students' literature selections to boost comprehension.

    - Spelling
    MP 3 teaches from SWO. SC 5&6 teaches from Traditional Spelling II.

    - Latin
    MP 3 includes Ludere Latine. SC 5&6 does not.


    Suggested Substitutions
    - Literature
    MP 3 and MP 5&6 Literature selections are identical, although we pace differently and use the Teacher Guide orally with the Student Guide optional.

    To avoid comparisons, you might pull different books with similar Lexiles.
    MP 3 includes Farmer Boy (820), Charlotte's Web (680), A Bear Called Paddington (750), Mr. Popper's Penguins (910)

    Consider any of these for your son to study as literature substitutes in SC 5&6
    Animal Folk Tales (?L), The Courage of Sarah Noble (610), The Cricket in Time's Square (780), Tales from Beatrix Potter (800s), Little House in the Big Woods (930).
    None of these will be covered in SC 7&8, so they serve as good substitutes for a newcomer to SC 5&6.



    Comment


      #3
      So, I'm right there right now. My oldest has special needs and uses the simply classical track. My third grader is neuro-typical and uses the classic core track. I decided to group them together in SC 5/6 this year.

      It is not uncommon to have some family style learning in homeschool. So, learning history, Bible, Latin, grammar, and science together would be 'normal' in a lot of families. I read them aloud to both kids. We answer questions orally. I only use the teacher guide to direct this discussion. No student writing. (Except Latin and grammar, in those, each child does have a workbook)

      We use the Bible verses from SC for memorization. They are shorter. Each child writes this verse on a notecard to review each morning. They then work on copybook side by side. It reinforces the Bible verse. I write the abbreviated verse in the book for them to copy.

      English Grammar is very similar. I write the question on the card, they write the answer. We review the card each day.

      Greek Myths I read out loud, we answer questions as a group.

      So that leaves math and literature. You could simply teach these subjects separately to each child, allowing each to work at their individual pace. My son read the literature last year, but wasn't quite ready to move on to grade four lit this year. I simply have found other books to read and discuss with him. My third graders uses the assigned lit with the guides. For math, my son uses a different program than rod and staff. My daughter uses rod and staff as assigned.

      Hopefully this helps. It's an awkward place to be with kids. Some kids would do well with the competition, others melt. It has taken several years to get to this point. A year or two ago, my son would not have been okay with sharing subjects, so I think maturity does play an important role.

      I have found that individual teaching of math and lit while using the rest of the subjects family+style has worked well for us this year.
      Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

      DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
      DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
      DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

      We've completed:
      Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
      Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

      Comment


        #4
        Re-reading Cheryls response....my daughter uses spelling workout from the classic core 3 and my son uses traditional spelling.
        Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

        DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
        DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
        DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

        We've completed:
        Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
        Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for your replies.

          Firstly, I want to apologise for my interesting typos. I am on my phone and missed some of the auto correct substitutions in my original post.

          Thank you for your ideas, Colomama. Unfortunately family style learning has limited success here. My son also has auditory processing problems, along with attention and sitting still problems. He largely needs my focused attention for any chance of him focussing his. Still, we keep trying and hopefully this is gradually building. I am sure both he and his sister would enjoy doing some subjects together if they actually could.

          I have some more questions about writing. I was looking at a sample of Introduction to Composition. I think that it could be beyond him. I am still thinking through various ways I might be able to adapt it for him and whether that might work. In the meantime, can you please tell me what is used for writing before this? I couldn't work it out looking at SC3.

          Thank you,

          Natalie

          Comment


            #6
            Quick response re: intro to comp.

            It directs you to re-read a paragraph or two from the lit book. It then asks three questions. Student then combines those three answers into a brief summary.

            How I used it. We read the three questions that we were looking for the answers for. Then we re-read the paragraph or two, specifically pointing out when a question was answered. Next, we went through the questions. We worked on them orally until we had a good succinct answer. I then wrote that answer into the workbook on the lines provided. We did this with all three questions. Next, we read all three answers as if they were one paragraph (because they will become the paragraph down below). It was obviously choppy and needed some transition words. We talked about how we could make it smoother. My son then copied the sentences above onto the lines below, adding transition words as needed.

            Now obviously this started off rather challenging and the paragraph was three sentences unceremoniously smashed together. But, as time went on, it became easier. The sentences became more fluid. He naturally added more than just transition words.

            ​​​​​He was never a fan. Probably will never be a fan of writing. His main goal is to write as few words as physically possible. The thing that really helped was getting him to understand that the questions helped to guide him to write a summary of what he had read. Otherwise he didn't understand why he needed to do the questions or why you would just randomly link sentences together and call it a paragraph.
            Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

            DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
            DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
            DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

            We've completed:
            Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
            Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

            Comment


              #7
              SC3 uses either: https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...aloud-edition/ or https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...story-edition/

              Can you tell us more about the level your son is independently reading at? This might help just help you better.
              Christine

              (2019/2020)
              DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
              DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
              DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

              Previous Years
              DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
              DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
              DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you. I was thinking of using it in a similar way, Colomama. We are still very much struggling with the idea of using sentences when a single word "will do".

                I did actually mean SC4, not SC3, however that resource has me thinking. If he writes anything or tells a story it is very heavy on verbs. The only adjectives we get are numbers providing technical information (They jumped of a cliff. It was 100m. Then they swam 2km....) Although he (sometimes) knows what an adjective is, for example, he sees little point in them.

                As to his reading level, it is hard to pick. The only books he has ever chosen to read for himself are the Little Bear series and Calvin and Hobbes. He is passionate about his teddy bears and these have captured his imagination. He can read harder things, but only a paragraph or two. I am not completely sure, but for a novel or story his lexile level may be around 500. He could read higher for informational texts, but only in bursts - more like a DK book or a section of a non-fiction picture book, rather than a continuous text book. Pictures are still essential. His comprehension levels are much higher, so long as his imagination is captured, he can sit still and he can concentrate on hearing all at the same time.

                Natalie

                Comment


                  #9
                  ETA He has been using this Australian history book. Most days he can read it, but not the full page. He is up to about 2/3 - 3/4 of the page as independant reading now.

                  https://cdn10.bigcommerce.com/s-avxq...g?t=1431915363

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Naxi View Post
                    Thank you. I was thinking of using it in a similar way, Colomama. We are still very much struggling with the idea of using sentences when a single word "will do".

                    I did actually mean SC4, not SC3, however that resource has me thinking. If he writes anything or tells a story it is very heavy on verbs. The only adjectives we get are numbers providing technical information (They jumped of a cliff. It was 100m. Then they swam 2km....) Although he (sometimes) knows what an adjective is, for example, he sees little point in them.

                    As to his reading level, it is hard to pick. The only books he has ever chosen to read for himself are the Little Bear series and Calvin and Hobbes. He is passionate about his teddy bears and these have captured his imagination. He can read harder things, but only a paragraph or two. I am not completely sure, but for a novel or story his lexile level may be around 500. He could read higher for informational texts, but only in bursts - more like a DK book or a section of a non-fiction picture book, rather than a continuous text book. Pictures are still essential. His comprehension levels are much higher, so long as his imagination is captured, he can sit still and he can concentrate on hearing all at the same time.

                    Natalie
                    In SC4, the writing comes in through the literature guides + the Core Skills books. (1&2). Are you Australian? I was thinking that based on the description he might actually be a better fit for SC3, but I was thinking he could do the SC3 with the American History readers, but if you are Australian that is probably not going to work! You could do SC3 with the Bible though, I just thought for his "literature" just this one year the American History readers + SC3 writing might be a good start for him. It would shore up his phonics and spelling and not have in the same books as his sister. However, based on your description, the SC4 might also be a good fit. Did you do the SC assessment for placement?
                    Christine

                    (2019/2020)
                    DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                    DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                    Previous Years
                    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Okay. So I redid the assessment. I had done them a while back, with a couple of months of the school year left and made a prognostic forecast. A clearer picture of where he is right now is this:
                      • He has the spelling and writing skills of somewhere around SC3-4
                      • His maths skills are nearly at grade level. He is very mathematical, but struggles due to maintaining focus rather than trouble understanding.
                      • His language skills are closer to SC5/6. Some of those skills he has quite easily, others, like following complex instructions, are much more difficult.
                      • His emotional and social skills are again closer to SC5/6, but vary greatly from day to day.
                      Yes, we are Australians, living in Australia. And you are correct that I do not want to overload him with American history and culture. However, at least some of the American history books could be very enjoyable to him - plenty of action and adventure in the life in Daniel Boone for example, and you don't need to be American to appreciate Thomas Edison or Neil Armstrong.

                      He is grade level intelligent in many ways, but his progress has been held back by his ability to concentrate long enough to "keep up" with such a workload. His dyslexia and CAPD have significantly impacted his learning, too. We have spent a lot of time and energy on reading intervention, as well as other therapies for his various challenges over the years, which has also impacted how much is left for academic learning. All that is to say, that while I think it is worthwhile to consider at least some of the literature / comprehension / grammar and spelling of SC3, I feel that he is ready for the enrichment and classical studies of SC5-6 - if only the writing and pace is not beyond him.

                      Does this sound reasonable, and how would it work? Is that workload too heavy? Or do I have the wrong idea? Should I consider getting the curriculum manuals for the various levels of SC if I am following the above course?

                      Also, when picking literature units, how important is it that the child can read the book or novel themselves? Is that important in considering the level?

                      I'm sorry. I started this topic with what I thought was one problem, but have discovered that I have a completely different set of queries.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi, Natalie. No need to apologize! You have more information now, so it makes sense that the queries will change.

                        First, know that all SC levels are fully customizable.
                        The Customize Tab allows moving "up" or "down" in any subject. Books, lesson plans and any resulting change in purchases totals will automatically recalculate as you customize.

                        Second, know that we have already adjusted the writing load in SC 5&6. Much of the otherwise challenging content, such as Greek Myths, has been eliminated in favor of oral discussion. This will help tremendously. It is very common for our SC students to be able to comprehend at a level higher than composition and spelling abilities, so you are not alone!

                        Here is a suggested course for him:

                        - Teach from SC 5&6 for everything possible. This will keep everything more cohesive for you and for him. Unless I am missing something, if he can read the sample of the Australian history book, he can learn to read the SC 5&6 Lit selections such as Charlotte's Web. He is not expected to "sight read" these independently. Rather, he can partner read by alternating paragraph by paragraph or page by page. He will receive a study of vocabulary words to aid fluency and understanding. All of this will be conducted orally.

                        - Teach from SC for composition and grammar. You will use Intro to Composition, which will link to his literature. He will also use English Grammar Practice and CS: Language Arts 3. Take a look at these and know that they are teacher-directed, so understand that these can be taught rather than merely assigned.Customize: through the Customize Tab or by calling the office:
                        - Customize spelling downward to SC 4 for Traditional Spelling I. Bonus: Your daughter will not be using this.
                        - Customize math to his math level. Use this handy placement test and then order the MP level of math that matches his readiness.

                        Add:
                        - Use these books for his own independent or guided reading: Simply Classical American History Set. This will supplement his reading practice with tales of courage, heroism, and duty that may inspire greater maturity and responsibility over time. Not only will he gain reading practice, but he will be gaining knowledge in general history that, as you implied, can help him make connections in world history no matter where he lives!


                        Feel free to follow up --

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Thank you for your advice!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Naxi, I will say that what Cheryl described in her last post is nearly exactly what we do.

                            We use the American history readers as read-alouds. If your son is a strong enough reader, he would enjoy them. Some are short reads and some may require more time. They are scheduled in the guide in the read-alouds section....that makes planning easier on you. My son randomly picked up the Lewis and Clark book today and painfully read through it. It has lots of tricky vocabulary, but the content was so interesting to him that he perservered through the whole thing.

                            With spelling, I moved him back to level 1 also. He knows some words, but overall it's the right level for him. I read him a list at a time and we circle the ones he doesn't know. We continued through multiple lists until we had a list of 5 words that he didn't know. He then practiced these words with colorful letters for a week before testing on them. In this way, we have moved through these "must know how to spell" words quickly without spending unnecessary time on ones that he already knew.

                            I will say that this year has been the smoothest year of homeschooling yet. He appreciates having his own guide to work through and track his assignments. He likes knowing what is expected of him each day and checking off things as they get done. We are the closest we have ever been to "on time" in the guide. Yay!
                            ​​​​​
                            Married to DH for 14 years. Living the rural life in the Colorado mountains

                            DS11- Simply Classical 5/6
                            DD9- Simply Classical 5/6 (neurotypical, but schooling with big brother to save mom's sanity)
                            DD 6- Classic Core First Grade

                            We've completed:
                            Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, and second grade.
                            Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, and 4.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hi Colomama,

                              Can I please clarify - are you talking about your DS11? And are the American history read alouds scheduled in the regular SC5/6? (It almost sounds too good to be true!)

                              He sounds very like my DS11. In the past I have given him a daily work list with little pictures of his books attached in blue-tak to peel off as he goes. However in the last six months he has taken a big step in his maturity (and reading ability) and I think he would love the grown-up feel of a lesson plan.

                              I am very glad your year is running more smoothly, too 😊

                              Natalie

                              Comment

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