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Sound Discrimination difficulties & Foundations in Sounds program

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    Sound Discrimination difficulties & Foundations in Sounds program

    Hello! We are on week 6 of SC1 Phonics with my 7 yo old. I have been feeling like it is not exactly what he needs right now. It is a repeat of what we did last year in MPK, at a slower pace with multisensory activities. It's a great program, and what I wish I'd had with my ASD son years ago. But, I don't feel like I've hit on the solution for this child, and my gut feeling has been that the moment we get to Fun in the Sun, "that horrible book" in my son's words, we won't be going anywhere. He still stumbles over certain consonant sounds and letter identification, and greatly resists and agonizes over the phonics recitation. This has really concerned me because my older son with dyslexia did not struggle with letter identification or with learning one, initial sound for each letter. His difficulty came when he encountered the concept of letters making more than one sound, and once spelling tests began in first grade. My 7 yo has been struggling since day 1 with learning the alphabet and with identifying any sound with some of the letters.

    Yesterday I was looking at the Barton website and gave my son the Barton student screening test. He did well in the first two sections testing discriminating between words and discriminating between syllables but completely failed the third section discriminating between sounds, like got almost every one wrong. This was startling to me. He's never had any difficulty speaking and was a very articulate toddler. But he could not correctly repeat back a sequence of consonant sounds, even with it repeated once. He garbled it, said nonsense words, and said,"I can't do this. This is so hard. I can't remember it..." My husband redid the test with him later on, and while my son was calmer and got less wrong, he still failed the test and got one wrong that he'd done correctly with me.

    We have a dyslexia evaluation scheduled for February 2020 at the children's hospital and a call in to the public school in case they can test him sooner. What else should I be looking at?

    The Barton website says if the child cannot pass the third section of their screening test, he is not ready to learn with any reading program. They recommend this program Foundations in Sounds which they told me takes anywhere from 3-6 months to work through. Does anyone have any experience with this?

    I appreciate any help! I really feel lost with this child. I feel like I am beating a dead horse with just the alphabet, and he keeps saying he hates school!
    Catherine

    2019-20
    DS16, 10th with MPOA
    DS14, 7th
    DS13, 6th
    DD13, 6th
    DS7, MP1 with Barton Reading & Spelling
    DD4, JrK
    DS 23 mos

    Homeschooling 4 with MP
    2 in classical school

    #2
    Hi, Catherine. I'm sorry to hear you are going through this! You are experienced enough to know when "something more" is going on, so trust that instinct and stop anything that is not working well.

    Do you have Phonics From A to Z? This book comes with SC 1 and has many tips and exercises similar to Foundations in Sounds for less cost. However, I have heard good things about Foundations in Sounds as a precursor to Barton, so feel free to pursue that if you are not satisfied with all of the auditory discrimination tips, lip/mouth photos, and strategies in Phonics from A to Z.

    I assume you have ruled out hearing acuity as an issue. It is good that he is already scheduled for testing in February. In the meantime over the holidays you might look at Phonics from A to Z for some enjoyable, inexpensive, and novel (i.e., "fun") approaches to help him before deciding whether to embark on a new program.

    Others may have more information for you.

    All the best as you sort this out. You have handled everything that has come your way. I am confident that in the end this will be no different!

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you, Cheryl! I do have Phonics A to Z and will look back at it. Was there a particular chapter you’d recommend for this?

      I haven’t pursued any detailed hearing test from an ENT. Honestly I never suspected anything hearing-related before this screening, and he’s always passed the annual pediatrician’s hearing test. I had been wondering if I should have his vision checked, assuming that visual orientation or something like that could be the problem. But on this screening he kept begging to please see what the “letters” I was saying were (needing some kind of visual cue to be able to recall the sound, as the test was not asking him to name the letter, but only to repeat the sequence of sounds).
      Catherine

      2019-20
      DS16, 10th with MPOA
      DS14, 7th
      DS13, 6th
      DD13, 6th
      DS7, MP1 with Barton Reading & Spelling
      DD4, JrK
      DS 23 mos

      Homeschooling 4 with MP
      2 in classical school

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by CatherineS View Post
        He did well in the first two sections testing discriminating between words and discriminating between syllables but completely failed the third section discriminating between sounds, like got almost every one wrong. This was startling to me. He's never had any difficulty speaking and was a very articulate toddler. But he could not correctly repeat back a sequence of consonant sounds, even with it repeated once. He garbled it, said nonsense words, and said,"I can't do this. This is so hard. I can't remember it..." My husband redid the test with him later on, and while my son was calmer and got less wrong, he still failed the test and got one wrong that he'd done correctly with me.
        Catherine, you mentioned that he did well discriminating between words and syllables in the first two sections. In the third section, did he have trouble with discriminating between sounds AND repeating back a sequence? If he had trouble with both, working memory could be an additional factor.

        If he could distinguish between the sounds but not remember the sequence, look at working memory or verbal short-term memory as a primary culprit.

        However, if auditory discrimination needs help as we suspected initially, see pp. 65-76 of Phonics from A to Z, 3rd edition, for pleasurable ways to work on this. Choose anything that might be appealing.

        If you want to dive into the intricacies of sounds and letters, see pp. 77-92 for good theory and mouth positions. See also specific sounds with mouth shapes on pp. 93-130.



        Phonics From A to Z is a readable and accessible manual for parents and teachers who want to go deeper into the subject of phonics and reading. It begins wi

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by cherylswope View Post

          Catherine, you mentioned that he did well discriminating between words and syllables in the first two sections. In the third section, did he have trouble with discriminating between sounds AND repeating back a sequence? If he had trouble with both, working memory could be an additional factor.

          If he could distinguish between the sounds but not remember the sequence, look at working memory or verbal short-term memory as a primary culprit.

          However, if auditory discrimination needs help as we suspected initially, see pp. 65-76 of Phonics from A to Z, 3rd edition, for pleasurable ways to work on this. Choose anything that might be appealing.

          If you want to dive into the intricacies of sounds and letters, see pp. 77-92 for good theory and mouth positions. See also specific sounds with mouth shapes on pp. 93-130.


          Yes, he had trouble with both. It seemed like the vowel sounds were easier for him to discriminate, perhaps because we have repeated those 5 sounds practically every day for the past 2 years. But several of those were repeated in incorrect order. The consonant sounds were difficult to discriminate and to sequence.

          I will check out those parts of the book. Thanks!
          Catherine

          2019-20
          DS16, 10th with MPOA
          DS14, 7th
          DS13, 6th
          DD13, 6th
          DS7, MP1 with Barton Reading & Spelling
          DD4, JrK
          DS 23 mos

          Homeschooling 4 with MP
          2 in classical school

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by CatherineS View Post
            Thank you, Cheryl! I do have Phonics A to Z and will look back at it. Was there a particular chapter you’d recommend for this?

            I haven’t pursued any detailed hearing test from an ENT. Honestly I never suspected anything hearing-related before this screening, and he’s always passed the annual pediatrician’s hearing test. I had been wondering if I should have his vision checked, assuming that visual orientation or something like that could be the problem. But on this screening he kept begging to please see what the “letters” I was saying were (needing some kind of visual cue to be able to recall the sound, as the test was not asking him to name the letter, but only to repeat the sequence of sounds).
            You may want to consider screening for auditory processing disorder. In my experience, you'll see an audiologist, who would then refer you to a different audiologist who specializes in (C) APD.

            Keep in mind, I'm not an expert, just reading this post through the lens of a mom of a son with APD.

            Along the way to have my sons diagnosed (one twin with dyslexia and dysgraphia, the other with APD), we also had them evaluated by a developmental optometrist and they ended up going through vision therapy for convergence insufficiency.
            Plans for 2019-20

            DD1 - 24 - College Grad and rocking her own bakery business
            DD2 - 13 - 8A Louisville HLS Cottage School and MPOA
            DS3 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
            DS4 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
            DD5 - 7 - MP2, Louisville HLS Cottage School
            DS6 - 5 - MP K

            [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

            Comment


              #7
              Happy Thanksgiving!
              I have had experience using the Foundations in Sounds program with DS (8). He has completed SC C and is currently in SC 1. Prior to starting the Barton program or investing in the Foundations in Sounds program, Susan Barton recommends a speech/language evaluation to eliminate any auditory issues.
              In my my son’s case, he did not have any auditory concerns. We used the Phonemic Awareness activities provided for free from Barton for several months and he progressed enough to pass Sections A and B, but could not “hear” the sounds for Section C. I called the Barton office and was connected immediately with Susan Barton. Since he did not have any speech/language concerns, she recommended we complete the Foundations in Sounds program. We used the Foundations in Sounds program with great success. Two years later, he is on Level 2 of the Barton program along with his SC curriculum and is making steady progress. We still use the skills and some of the tools from the Foundations in Sounds program today. Hopefully, this will provide you with some insight.
              Wishing you a blessed Holiday season!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DiannaKennedy View Post

                You may want to consider screening for auditory processing disorder. In my experience, you'll see an audiologist, who would then refer you to a different audiologist who specializes in (C) APD.

                Keep in mind, I'm not an expert, just reading this post through the lens of a mom of a son with APD.

                Along the way to have my sons diagnosed (one twin with dyslexia and dysgraphia, the other with APD), we also had them evaluated by a developmental optometrist and they ended up going through vision therapy for convergence insufficiency.
                Thank you, Dianna! We will look into that.
                Catherine

                2019-20
                DS16, 10th with MPOA
                DS14, 7th
                DS13, 6th
                DD13, 6th
                DS7, MP1 with Barton Reading & Spelling
                DD4, JrK
                DS 23 mos

                Homeschooling 4 with MP
                2 in classical school

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by CoachTina View Post
                  Happy Thanksgiving!
                  I have had experience using the Foundations in Sounds program with DS (8). He has completed SC C and is currently in SC 1. Prior to starting the Barton program or investing in the Foundations in Sounds program, Susan Barton recommends a speech/language evaluation to eliminate any auditory issues.
                  In my my son’s case, he did not have any auditory concerns. We used the Phonemic Awareness activities provided for free from Barton for several months and he progressed enough to pass Sections A and B, but could not “hear” the sounds for Section C. I called the Barton office and was connected immediately with Susan Barton. Since he did not have any speech/language concerns, she recommended we complete the Foundations in Sounds program. We used the Foundations in Sounds program with great success. Two years later, he is on Level 2 of the Barton program along with his SC curriculum and is making steady progress. We still use the skills and some of the tools from the Foundations in Sounds program today. Hopefully, this will provide you with some insight.
                  Wishing you a blessed Holiday season!
                  Thank you so much for this. That is good to hear. I believe his dyslexia evaluation includes a speech-language component. That isn’t until February, so I will probably start Foundations in Sounds and see how that goes, since they have a money-back trial period. How much time did you spend each day on it?
                  Catherine

                  2019-20
                  DS16, 10th with MPOA
                  DS14, 7th
                  DS13, 6th
                  DD13, 6th
                  DS7, MP1 with Barton Reading & Spelling
                  DD4, JrK
                  DS 23 mos

                  Homeschooling 4 with MP
                  2 in classical school

                  Comment


                    #10
                    There are 12 lessons in the Foundations program. We started in late October and finished in mid-February. My son, age 6 at the time we did FiS, has diagnosed dyslexia, ADHD, and a low working memory. He required a lot of review and could work about 30 minutes per session. The program recommends two hours a week of instruction(2 one hour sessions or 4 half hour sessions). It is very multi sensory and incorporates review games which helped to hold his interest and end on a positive note. We would often invite his older brother to help in the review games. The program is mastery based so the rate of advancing through Foundation in Sounds depends on the individual student’s success. I hope it helps your family!

                    Comment

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