Announcement

Collapse

Disclaimer - Read This First

Disclaimer

This website contains general information about medical and educational conditions and treatments. The information is not advice, and should not be treated as such.

The educational and medical information on this website is provided “as is” without any representations or warranties, express or implied. Cheryl Swope, M.Ed. and Memoria Press make no representations or warranties in relation to the information on this website.

You must not rely on the information on this website as an alternative to medical advice from your doctor or individualized advice from any other professional healthcare or educational provider. If you think you or your child may be suffering from any medical condition you should seek immediate medical attention.

You should never delay seeking medical or educational advice, disregard medical or educational advice, or discontinue medical or educational treatment because of any information on this website.
See more
See less

SC 3 or MP 2? Combine children or not?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    SC 3 or MP 2? Combine children or not?

    My 9 year old son has had a very successful year completing both SC1-2 (granted, we focussed mostly on the reading, spelling, and writing). Thank you, Cheryl, for such a gentle and approachable curriculum! I think he may be ready to dive into MP 2. Any thoughts? We will be homeschooling our other two children as well this coming year. My son is excited to have his twin brother join him, but he's not so happy about his younger sister who is close to him in ability. My daughter will be in 2nd grade next year. Ideally, I would do MP2 with both my son and daughter. However, my son believes he's ready for 3rd grade and shouldn't be put with his sister. I'm concerned it may be discouraging for him to realize he isn't as advanced as he thinks. My other son has completed 3rd grade, but he struggled with spelling and grammar. His reading is a little behind as well. Would it be best to place him in MP3 or MP4 or a combination? None of my children have had Latin so I was thinking of doing Prima with all three.

    To give more information: I use Math U See with my son which I will probably use again this coming year with all three. I'm also planning to do a California History unit with my children for the fall semester instead of MP history.

    #2
    You are most welcome. Thank you for the update.

    Combining all for Prima sounds good. Beyond this, I must let others weigh in and will revisit this on Monday morning!

    Comment


      #3
      Hi! Congratulations to you and your son for a successful year! My initial thought, without further information is to focus on the fact that he was successful using SC. I can tell you from experience, that we should feel relieved that our child is successful, rather than try to change the speed. I have tried at least 2x, probably 3 with 1 child to switch over to “regular” MP. I have additionally tried it with a different child. I am thankful that I realized quickly the mistake! The other thought is, having gone through SC2, the actual switch point is MP1 (second semester possibly). There are still developing phonics skills before those MP2 Lit guides. SC3, with the American History readers really feels like 3rd grade! Your other twin may benefit from the phonics review as well, I think I would consider SC3 for the boys, and MP2 for your daughter.

      However, I suppose it all really depends also on what they were doing this previous year? Can you share what curricula you used for reading, writing, spelling, etc?
      Christine

      (2019/2020)
      DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
      DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
      DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

      Previous Years
      DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
      DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
      DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you for responding. I have twin boys and a daughter. I homeschooled one twin this year mostly using SC. My other son and daughter were in a Christian school using Bob Jones curriculum. My son in the Christian school moved into third grade mid-year after a bonus semester in 2nd. He handled the transition very well, but lacks spelling and grammar skills. My daughter is reading, but still sounds out many of her words. However, she's highly motivated.

        With my homeschooled son who completed SC2, I was thinking that since he moved so quickly through the curriculum (I started him on SC2 in January) maybe he'd be ready for something more fast paced. He struggles with being so far behind his twin brother who completed 3rd grade. He sees himself as always trying to catch up. Add to that the concern he has of being close to his sister in ability. He doesn't want to be down with her as he sees it, but up with his brother. It's this comparison that concerns me about homeschooling my other children. However, we believe it is best to have them home, so I need to figure out a way to make it work.

        We are planning to do a modified school time during the summer.

        Comment


          #5
          I know Cheryl will chime in with better advice, but a few additional thoughts with the new information: 1) your daughter might actually be better suited to MP1 (for reading and spelling), if she is still sounding out words. MP has been known to be a little ahead of other curricula. There is sort of a "catch up" year built in around the 3rd grade. The core you see on the webpage is the standard core offered for homeschoolers, but there is an accelerated option available. The accelerated option is used at the prestigious Highlands Latin School in Louisville (and now other campuses as well), but homeschoolers (who can not necessarily teach the same way a class is run) were having trouble with the transition from 2nd to 3rd, so they moderated the homeschool packages. They spread several subjects over 2 years. The literature guides in grade 4 don't even get done by kids who are on the accelerated track. I think giving your daughter another year to mature in reading fluently, might set her up for this transition better. Lastly, if she only finishes MP to the 11th grade (as a 12th grader) if you look at the books in those levels, I think you will see many college level classes, so this is still a great accomplishment. You can still call her a 2nd grader! MP can customize! 2) I do not have experience with twins, but my younger son (by 2 years) is catching up to my older daughter. It just is the way it is. I find better success meeting her where she is at, rather than where I hope she could/should be. (she will be 10 in August and doing, essentially the 3rd grade core, with 4th grade math). Additionally, my youngest child (who is 3.5 years younger than her older sister) sometimes has to explain something to her older sister! So, I understand that challenge well. I know Cheryl's wisdom of appropriate wording to speak to your kids will be helpful! 3) if your older son is having trouble with spelling, you might consider at least the Traditional Spelling 2. I might consider having everyone wait on Prima even, knowing that they are still working on reading. Latin is best done after phonics are solidified. It is scheduled in MP2, but not in SC3, until the 2nd semester, which is about the phonics level of MP2 1st semester.

          It will be an adjustment this year learning how to teach 3 kids for you, so I would allow some grace in that as well. I found two was very manageable, but I'm still figuring out adding the third to the rotation, well. I don' t have a perfect system, but everyone is learning, thankfully!

          My recommendation is combine for enrichment (which ever level, it does not really matter - but I think the SC3 will challenge everyone. This give you reading practice, science, music, geography, art, american history, and states and capitals. You can buy two copies of the American History readers and your best reader can team read with you (or maybe you share that responsibility with all the kids). Everyone could do the Bible + Writing from SC3). Then, everyone might need their own math, spelling and phonics instruction. You might find you begin Prima after Christmas with everyone, after you have settled into a routine.
          Christine

          (2019/2020)
          DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
          DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
          DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

          Previous Years
          DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
          DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
          DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

          Comment


            #6
            Good morning, Sandilee.

            Christine offers good advice. Consider this from her ideas above:

            SC 3 for current SC student.
            Pro's - 1) This may better meet his needs. 2) He will have some materials, such as SC Writing, that are different. This may minimize comparisons. 3) He is doing well with the SC progression. Success is important!
            Con - By not combining everyone, you will spend more time teaching individually.

            MP 2 reading, spelling, phonics, math for son -
            Pro's - 1) You can teach phonics/spelling from Traditional Spelling II. He will greatly benefit from this. 2) You can defer Prima until second semester if needed, as Christine described.
            Con - You will spend more time teaching individually.

            MP 1 reading, spelling, phonics, math for daughter -
            Pro's - 1) She will receive strong foundation for reading. 2) She will have her own materials, so this might lessen comparisons.
            Con - You will spend more time teaching individually.

            I mention MP math for your other children because of the excellent way R&S addresses math facts and mastery. With children for whom learning difficulties appear in the family, we often see difficulties with mastery of math facts. R&S can help you pre-empt this problem.


            No matter which progression or combination you choose, at some point before you begin you will need to set parameters about comparisons. Set a vision before them. "
            We homeschool to strengthen our minds, to learn and grow, and to encourage each other as a family.
            We all learn. Sometimes we need different materials or a different pace when we learn." Give examples from your own life or from your husband's. "We cheer each other on. We do not make fun of each other. We do not call each other names. We do not call ourselves names. We just keep learning, practicing, and growing." Talk about different ways each child is uniquely helpful or treasured in the family. Give examples. Then introduce the materials. "Child #1 will be learning reading and spelling from SC. Child #2 will be learning reading and spelling from MP 2. Child #3 will be learning reading and spelling from MP 1. If we all work hard this year, everyone will learn."

            At the stages of your child's learning, individualizing math, spelling, and phonics/reading is reasonable. You may find that if you spend the time individually now, you can combine more readily in the future. I did this with my own. They needed individual instruction in math, spelling, and phonics/reading initially. When these were more solid, we could combine for Latin.

            The less you substitute or add, the easier this will be. For this reason, you might defer your California studies another year. Then you could combine for that as well.

            Another tip: You might teach a combined book from Myself & Others over the summer. This is an area in which you can much more readily combine. Myself & Others will give you handy reference points throughout the year.


            Of course you can do whatever seems to work best! Let us know if we can help further as you decide. Bonus: by waiting until June, you will have free shipping on orders over $75!


            Comment


              #7
              Forgive me for not responding right away. School ended with a flourish of activities, and my boys and husband needed help preparing for a camping trip. That’s all over now and I can resume my curriculum decision making process.

              Thank you, ladies, for helping me think this through. I like the the idea of doing Myself and Others with the kids over the summer. Cheryl, I also appreciate the possible dialogue you gave that I would use to talk to my children about their different levels. I certainly want them to cheer each other on as they progress, not tear each other or themselves down through comparison.

              I like the idea of delaying Latin for at least another semester.

              I see the wisdom of placing my previously homeschooled son in SC3. We want to capitalize on his success and not push him too hard. Meet him where he’s at.

              For my daughter, I assessed her reading recently. She’s reading some multi-syllable words easily, but often stopping to sound out simple short vowel words. She had excellent phonics instruction this year and her spelling has greatly improved. Is this possibly a developmental hiccup? Will the need to sound out words disappear with more reading or is this an indication of a need for more phonics instruction?

              My other son needs to be challenged. I think he would do better in MP3 for most of his core minus the Latin, but maybe do phonics and spelling with my other son as a review. Do you think that would work?

              Comment


                #8
                Please refresh our memories with your twin 9yo boys and a 6/7yo girl. Have your boys been evaluated for any learning difficulties? Do learning difficulties (specific learning disabilities, ADHD) exist in immediate or extended family?


                While waiting for those answers and based on the information you provided in the three posts above, I wonder if you might combine everyone in SC 3 this year. This would give both your 9yo and your daughter more time with phonics, spelling, grammar, and reading fluency practice through FSR E and SC More Storytime Treasures. Your stronger 9yo reader could omit SC More Storytime Treasures. He could be challenged, instead, by being the designated American history reader for the family. Those American history books are long and sometimes quite difficult.

                By second semester, all three would receive an intro to Prima Latina.

                Next year, your daughter could diverge into MP 2, your stronger twin into MP 3 or 4, and your other twin into SC 4. MP is advanced, so this might be an option. You could teach all in Prima or send the stronger son immediately to LC, while the other two study Prima individually or together.

                The possible combinations and permutations are almost limitless, but placing everyone in SC 3 might allow you to address everything efficiently in a "one-room schoolhouse" manner. You would need only the Core, customized math, and two sets of SC 3 consumables.

                If you think it would be better to have three separate cores, you might take the readiness assessments for SC 1, 2, 3, and 4 at ClassicalSpecialNeeds.com for all three and report back with results. Even if only one is placed in SC, I think it might give us a better idea of everyone's skills and abilities in various areas.

                Memoria Press is offering free shipping on orders over $75, so we want to help you make a good decision by the end of the month if possible!


                Comment


                  #9
                  For what it's worth, my oldest is doing something of a modified MP2 since Latin intimidated me. However, if you take a look at the DVD, you'll probably see it's much more gentle than you think. There is a lot of repetition built into it and even if you decided to make one lesson cover every 2 weeks for a while, it's not that bad at all. Definitely make copies of the drill boxes ahead of time though. My kids watch the DVD over breakfast as a family, repeating the instructor as they go. I tend to make them watch the video 3 times over the course of the week during breakfast. (I get a few minutes to do dishes). Then the older 2 do the drill boxes afterwards. There is a lot of grammar in this lesson - as in English grammar, not just Latin. It covers all of the major parts of speech and reinforces what they see in other places. I did start Latin in the 2nd semester, fearing it would be too much. If I had it to do over, I would have started doing one lesson over 2 weeks rather than just hold off altogether. Right now, we are trying to finish it before getting to the new school year and I'm not sure I'll make it. Even if I don't, the same words will be part of Latina Christiana so if I don't finish Prima Latina, I'm not too worried about just starting the year with LC. I love doing it with 2 kids at the same time though!
                  Melissa

                  DS (MP2) - 8
                  DS (MP1) - 7
                  DS (K) - 5
                  DD (Adorable distraction) 2

                  Comment


                    #10
                    We had our homeschooled son evaluated for learning disabilities. We suspected dyslexia, but the results didn't show this. Instead, he was identified as inattentive. The next step would be to have him assessed by a psychiatrist for ADHD. We are reluctant to do this since we don't want him stuck with a label or put on medication unless necessary. I know that's a touchy subject and there may be many opinions about ADHD and treatment on this forum. We just don't feel settled about the issue. For now we see that he is making progress, so better to leave things as they are.

                    My other two children have no learning disabilities that we are aware of. Even so, reading hasn't come easily to my children. I guess you might say they are late bloomers. My other son had two years of poor phonics and reading instruction in public school before landing in the Christian school where phonics was emphasized. We intended to have him repeat 2nd grade. In December his 2nd grade teacher encouraged us to have him move up to third grade. We agreed. If he had stayed in 2nd he would have had more phonics instruction which would have given him a better foundation. Even so, he's an avid reader now and loved 3rd grade.

                    I'm not too concerned about my daughter. She's highly motivated and will jump in with enthusiasm. In light of the recommendations thus far, I'll probably have her do MP1 or SC3.

                    Melissa, thank you for your advice about Latin. I definitely want to combine some subjects and Latin seems like a viable option. I'm not sure about including it in the fall since I'll be adjusting to teaching 3 for the first time. I like your idea of watching the videos during breakfast.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Cheryl, due to your recommendations and the may posts I read about R&S, I think I'm ready to make the switch! I wasn't very happy with MUS anyway.

                      After mulling over the advice here and spending hours looking through the curriculum online and this forum I've come up with a plan (subject to change depending on more feedback ):

                      Just to review (you can read the post above for more in-depth info if you have the time to kill, lol): I have a 7yo daughter who completed Bob Jones 1 last year, but she is still weak in blending cvc word. She can figure out multi-syllable words consistently. She loves math, but doesn't have her add and sub facts memorized. I think she would benefit from MP1, but she would find R&S 2 to be the best fit. for math My 9 yo twin boys, D & J, are at different levels. D has an IEP and struggles with retention of facts and reading in general. I homeschooled D last year working through SC 1-2. It was his most successful year in school to date. He will likely transition nicely into full SC3 core for next year. J completed Bob Jones 3 last year. He reads independently for pleasure, but still has some gaps in his phonics which makes his spelling weak. He also needs to memorize some add and sub math facts, but loves math and understands math concepts well. MP4 would be too challenging and MP3 would not have enough spelling/phonics review. I believe SC5/6 1yr core will work best for him to help him transition into MP4NU or MP4 next year depending on how you all answer my questions below, but I'm undecided about his Math placement.

                      Here are my questions:
                      1. I'm planning to do SC3 enrichment and American Series with my daughter and D. I want to include J also. However, will there be an advantage of doing Greek Myths and God's Protected World with J this year? Or would it be fine waiting until next year when he jumps into MP4NU? How about doing Mammals with D and J this year?
                      2. If I do the SC3 enrichment with all three, would I also do the Music appreciation 1 and Creating Art with J?
                      3. Since J completed Bob Jones math 3 last year (only 2nd semester, but he did very well), should I have him jump into R&S4 this year? He likes to be challenged.
                      4. What advantage if any would there be for J to do Latin as scheduled in SC 5/6? Would it be okay to wait and do Prima with the other two in the spring? (I think I'm going to have my daughter start Prima with her brothers.)
                      5. How many of the recommended Supplements are necessary for J?
                      6. Are the Book of Crafts a delightful addition or a necessary component to MP1?
                      7. Am I over thinking this and need to simplify? If so, where do I simplify?

                      I can't thank you all enough for your help on this forum. You all are truly a blessing!
                      Last edited by Sandilee; 06-22-2019, 04:43 PM.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sandilee View Post
                        Cheryl, due to your recommendations and the may posts I read about R&S, I think I'm ready to make the switch! I wasn't very happy with MUS anyway.
                        Originally posted by Sandilee View Post

                        After mulling over the advice here and spending hours looking through the curriculum online and this forum I've come up with a plan (subject to change depending on more feedback ):

                        Just to review (you can read the post above for more in-depth info if you have the time to kill, lol): I have a 7yo daughter who completed Bob Jones 1 last year, but she is still weak in blending cvc word. She can figure out multi-syllable words consistently. She loves math, but doesn't have her add and sub facts memorized. I think she would benefit from MP1, but she would find R&S 2 to be the best fit. for math My 9 yo twin boys, D & J, are at different levels. D has an IEP and struggles with retention of facts and reading in general. I homeschooled D last year working through SC 1-2. It was his most successful year in school to date. He will likely transition nicely into full SC3 core for next year. J completed Bob Jones 3 last year. He reads independently for pleasure, but still has some gaps in his phonics which makes his spelling weak. He also needs to memorize some add and sub math facts, but loves math and understands math concepts well. MP4 would be too challenging and MP3 would not have enough spelling/phonics review. I believe SC5/6 1yr core will work best for him to help him transition into MP4NU or MP4 next year depending on how you all answer my questions below, but I'm undecided about his Math placement.

                        Here are my questions:
                        1. I'm planning to do SC3 enrichment and American Series with my daughter and D. I want to include J also. However, will there be an advantage of doing Greek Myths and God's Protected World with J this year? Or would it be fine waiting until next year when he jumps into MP4NU? How about doing Mammals with D and J this year?
                        2. If I do the SC3 enrichment with all three, would I also do the Music appreciation 1 and Creating Art with J?
                        3. Since J completed Bob Jones math 3 last year (only 2nd semester, but he did very well), should I have him jump into R&S4 this year? He likes to be challenged.
                        4. What advantage if any would there be for J to do Latin as scheduled in SC 5/6? Would it be okay to wait and do Prima with the other two in the spring? (I think I'm going to have my daughter start Prima with her brothers.)
                        5. How many of the recommended Supplements are necessary for J?
                        6. Are the Book of Crafts a delightful addition or a necessary component to MP1?
                        7. Am I over thinking this and need to simplify? If so, where do I simplify?

                        I can't thank you all enough for your help on this forum. You all are truly a blessing!

                        You are welcome!

                        I think you're proposing this:
                        Daughter - MP 1 with R&S 2 Arithmetic
                        Twin D - Full SC 3
                        Twin J - Full SC 5&6

                        First, J ...
                        Did you take SC placement tests? Based on weaknesses in spelling, phonics, & math facts, I wonder more about Full SC 4? He would be in TS I. See where the readiness assessments place him. If he needs to be in SC 4, that would change some of your questions and answer others.

                        Answers in blue below:

                        1. I'm planning to do SC3 enrichment and American Series with my daughter and D. I want to include J also. However, will there be an advantage of doing Greek Myths and God's Protected World with J this year? Or would it be fine waiting until next year when he jumps into MP4NU? How about doing Mammals with D and J this year?
                        Keep it simple.
                        Either combine all three (daughter, D, & J) in SC 3 Enrichment with American history OR combine daughter & D in SC 3 Enrichment and teach J from his own Enrichment (either SC 4 or SC 5&6).

                        Do not try to add Mammals to SC 3 Enrichment for D&J. It will be too much. The American history read-alouds take time. Both D&J will study Mammals in SC 4 Enrichment (or MP3).


                        J - Choose either SC 3 Enrichment, SC 4 Enrichment or SC 5&6 Enrichment for him, but not a combination. The focus for J must be his spelling, phonics, math facts, and, I presume, writing. Enrichment is more "fun," but the essentials are just that: essential. He really needs to become a capable reader, speller, writer, and thinker. Focus your time on those core elements for him.


                        2. If I do the SC3 enrichment with all three, would I also do the Music appreciation 1 and Creating Art with J?

                        No. If you combine for SC 3 Enrichment, let this be sufficient for all. If you want to add anything for J, add a weekly oral or written retelling of the American history selections.

                        If you want to teach Music Appreciation I, Creating Art, Greek Myths, & God's Protected World to J, I would teach him only from SC 5&6 Enrichment where these occur. Let him completely "opt out" of SC 3 Enrichment. If he wants to read or listen to the American history read-alouds for enjoyment, he is free to do this. Do not require him to attempt so many subjects in one year.

                        You will find that if you target his phonics, spelling, math, & writing, J will have plenty on his plate with a single Enrichment course.



                        3. Since J completed Bob Jones math 3 last year (only 2nd semester, but he did very well), should I have him jump into R&S4 this year? He likes to be challenged.
                        Take the R&S Placement test (shared in a recent thread) to determine his suitable placement.


                        4. What advantage if any would there be for J to do Latin as scheduled in SC 5/6? Would it be okay to wait and do Prima with the other two in the spring? (I think I'm going to have my daughter start Prima with her brothers.)
                        If I were you, I would combine all three for Latin. You will have plenty to teach without separate Latin. You can always challenge J within your Prima class if needed. He may find it sufficiently challenging to spell each Latin & English word correctly.


                        5. How many of the recommended Supplements are necessary for J?
                        This will depend on what you decide to do per the above questions.


                        6. Are the Book of Crafts a delightful addition or a necessary component to MP1?
                        Someone else can better answer this question.


                        7. Am I over thinking this and need to simplify? If so, where do I simplify?
                        Not over-thinking, but possibly underestimating how much time it takes to teach three children well.


                        All three are still learning to read, spell, and write well. This is time-consuming instruction. You will also want to leave plenty of "down time" for you and for your children.

                        Our typical advice is to teach as written without adding anything. Most people find that this is ample content to teach to mastery.

                        If you truly find that a single core package lacks sufficient instruction for each day, week, and month, add something like music lessons, swimming, or a drawing class rather than more academic subjects. We want to teach a few things well, rather than many things at once.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I assessed all three with the R&S placement tests. I also assess J for SC4 and SC 5/6. Here's what I've worked out so far.

                          Daughter: MP 1 w/ R&S2
                          D: SC 3 w/ R&S2
                          J: SC 5/6 w/o enrichment

                          Enrichment: SC 3 for all

                          It appears that the Christian Studies and Classical Studies is part of the core for SC 5/6. I am considering keeping CS 1 for J, but waiting on the Greek Myths till next year with MP 4NU.

                          Does this look like a reasonable plan?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Yes, I feel much better about this plan for you!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I am in a similar situation as you! I have 3 children close in age and academics. My youngest has no issues, that I can see so far, but because my older two require a lot of direct teaching in the basic skills, I have moved slowly with her. She will not quite be ready for MP1 phonics, so we will just keep moving forward until we are ready! So, she will do a modified MP1. My next oldest is doing a mix of SC3/4/5/6. My oldest is doing SC5/6, but I have decided not to do the enrichment at all from 5/6 or MP1. We will all do SC3 Enrichment! (Oldest will do States and Caps workbook though). There really are ways to stretch it, without going overboard. I am looking forward to my oldest repeating the history readers! I have 3 copies and plan to read aloud together (the oldest two and me). The youngest can sit beside me and just listen, and maybe even by the end of the year help read too!
                              Christine

                              (2019/2020)
                              DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                              DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                              DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                              Previous Years
                              DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                              DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                              DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X