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“Apprenticeship Teaching”

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    “Apprenticeship Teaching”

    I’m currently studying up on cognitive/academic supports for kids who struggle with executive function. I came across the following comparison and I’m trying to figure out where Classical pedagogy sits in this. I’m especially interested as not only my son but also some of my other co-op students have difficulty with retrieving information despite consistent study. This makes class discussions difficult. Here’s what they’re saying:

    Performance-oriented teaching:

    1. Identify a learning task
    2. Model the target behavior
    3. Demand/request performance from the learner, possibly with cues or prompts to facilitate success
    4. Provide corrective feedback or motivational feedback as warranted by the learner’s performance


    Apprenticeship Model:

    1. A meaningful task is identified
    2. Use visual supports, models, etc. to ensure the student knows exactly what the learning target looks like
    3. Invite participation as a collaborator (we work as a team to ensure the task is completed successfully)
    4. The student acts independently only when fully ready to do so.

    Example of “simplest form of apprenticeship teaching”:

    T: We need to figure out which of these piles is more; can we do it as a team?
    S: okay
    T: okay, there are 7 here and 4 here — I think this is more — what do you think?
    S: yes
    T: We did it! 7 is more than 4; let’s say that together
    T: great; ready to do one alone? Or do you want to do it as a team again?

    Linked to “errorless learning — errorless because the student does the task with somebody else long enough to be confident when asked to do it alone. Furthermore, errors are “pre-corrected” — that is, if the teacher expects that the student will have difficulty, then the teacher offers the support needed to ensure that the student will be successful.” [sounds to me more like giving the answers?]

    I use cues/prompts, back up to earlier questions, ask refining questions, etc. to help with student discussions. Is that still “performance-based”? Where does classical pedagogy sit here?
    Jennifer


    2018-2019
    DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
    DS-12 (6M)
    DS-10 (SC3)
    DD-8 (MP2)
    DD-6 (SC2)
    DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

    #2
    Both of the above examples seem problematic with presuppositions not found in classical pedagogy, so you might want to check your sources. Key red flags: "target behavior," "facilitate," "learning target," "collaborator." Some of the principles or strategies in the examples above could still apply in classical pedagogy, such as providing visual models, assisting any student's understanding of what is expected, and asking students to do what the teacher knows he is capable of doing.





    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
      Both of the above examples seem problematic with presuppositions not found in classical pedagogy, so you might want to check your sources. Key red flags: "target behavior," "facilitate," "learning target," "collaborator." Some of the principles or strategies in the examples above could still apply in classical pedagogy, such as providing visual models, assisting any student's understanding of what is expected, and asking students to do what the teacher knows he is capable of doing.
      I'm studying a series of mainstream tutorials on Cognitive/Academic Issues for children with Executive Function challenges. It's full of modern educational jargon so I'm trying to navigate as best as I can. They seem to make some good points, other things I ignore, but maybe it's completely off-base and I don't know it. Are there any classic pedagogy-specific sources for this in addition to your book?
      Jennifer


      2018-2019
      DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
      DS-12 (6M)
      DS-10 (SC3)
      DD-8 (MP2)
      DD-6 (SC2)
      DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

      Comment


        #4

        Performance-oriented teaching:

        1. Identify a learning task
        2. Model the target behavior
        3. Demand/request performance from the learner, possibly with cues or prompts to facilitate success
        4. Provide corrective feedback or motivational feedback as warranted by the learner’s performance


        Apprenticeship Model:

        1. A meaningful task is identified
        2. Use visual supports, models, etc. to ensure the student knows exactly what the learning target looks like
        3. Invite participation as a collaborator (we work as a team to ensure the task is completed successfully)
        4. The student acts independently only when fully ready to do so.

        What I see analyzing the two models purely for how this fits with how I teach SC and NOT to align my teaching with their jargon or pedagogy:

        Step 1 seems the same. We teach for a purpose, for example SC 3 Spelling Book 2 Lesson 1 one goal for our child to write "a" for the short a sound.
        Step 2 seems similar, with the Apprenticeship Model (A) explicitly encouraging teaching to more learning styles or using more teaching methods.
        Step 3 (A) seems like it would be the step before Step 3 Performance-oriented (P) when we would work through multiple problems together, then move on to Step 3 (P) with fewer helps and cues.
        Step 3 (P) seems to be asking the students to produce the work sample. This would be the the time the teacher says, "Please, complete your page."
        Step 4 (A) seems like it would mesh into the Performance-oriented teaching before Step 4 (P) or be modified to "when the teacher feels the student can successfully complete the work independently."
        And finally Step 4 (P) would be grading or evaluating the work and providing that feedback to the student.

        Both models seem lacking for a full teaching method especially for students who need more intermediary/linking steps in instruction. The pedagogues here are systems to produce a learning goal which is not the end goal of Classical education, which is to produce a love for and desire to emulate truth, beauty, and goodness. Like Cheryl said, the some of the teaching techniques are helpful, but we want the student to master the material and thinking process, not just fill in the worksheet correctly or drag them through the discussion. So we have a two-fold question instead of one: 1. What is the real desired outcome? A formulaically and informationally correct conversation? or A person growing in truth, beauty, and goodness through this material? and 2. What METHOD of teaching is most effective in this instance?

        Most of the time I can pinpoint what part of the student outcome I'm missing. You pinpointed the area of lack: students retrieving information to make class discussions more fruitful. The hard part is to figure out how to help the student access or produce the learned material. This is where I always get stuck. Am I not teaching it? Is my student not capable of learning it? Is he not capable of producing it? Am I not communicating what I desire him to do? Am I somehow missing something important if I substitute another evaluation method? Is there some benefit to repeating an activity that is not giving a satisfactory result (dragging him through the discussion) because long term the activity will produce a benefit?

        How do I know where the failure is happening?

        I hope something here was helpful and/or encouraging and that you will soon have a breakthrough with your son and students. My current method is to just keep following my SC teaching manuals item by item, because I believe it is producing a good result in my child in certain areas quickly and in other areas without any evidence of growth for years.

        With humility and regard for you both,
        Rae

        DD16 MP11
        DS16 11th grade SPed charter, MP3
        DS9 MP 3
        DS7 MP Jr K
        DS4 MP Jr K

        Comment


          #5
          Yes, I understand, Jen. Much sifting is often needed.

          Some good, common tips are these:
          1) break down lessons into smaller bites,
          2) be encouraging or matter-of-fact (not discouraging or overly emotional),
          3) use color coding or other visual strategies for organizing material,
          4) review in a variety of ways before calling on the student,
          5) plan time for planning, organizing, and charting.

          You can be creative. Just this morning we found that an important chore had not been accomplished yesterday despite a detailed desk-size weekly chore chart. The person who had not accomplished the chore asserted that most of the others were accomplished and that the person meant to go back and finish this but just didn't; therefore no further modifications were needed. Given the known EF issues, I knew the current system wasn't sufficient, so I equipped the person with a red pen for "stop" (chore completed) and a green pen for "go" (go back to this before the end of the day). I then printed a week-by-week chart of chores onto which the person can now check off each as he goes. Now it is a checklist.

          Before, he was only to refer to it, complete the task, and move on. Now he actually marks on the chart. This not only gives him a physical task to link to attending to the chore chart but also gives himself a way to see at a glance what he needs to go back to finish. It is similar to the diving board metaphor. "Do your chores according to the printed chart" was the high dive. Now he has a method that helps him attend to the chart, mark his progress, and stay on track. At first he saw no need for this, but when he saw the order in in all, he seemed very pleased. He placed his pens alongside the chart. Then he began marking everything throughout the day.

          Anything you can do to break things down and make them successful will help.

          As for books -- these two do not rely excessively on either progressivism or behaviorism:

          - Smart but Scattered series
          - Late, Lost, & Unprepared: A Parent's Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
            Yes, I understand, Jen. Much sifting is often needed.

            Some good, common tips are these:
            1) break down lessons into smaller bites,
            2) be encouraging or matter-of-fact (not discouraging or overly emotional),
            3) use color coding or other visual strategies for organizing material,
            4) review in a variety of ways before calling on the student,
            5) plan time for planning, organizing, and charting.

            You can be creative. Just this morning we found that an important chore had not been accomplished yesterday despite a detailed desk-size weekly chore chart. The person who had not accomplished the chore asserted that most of the others were accomplished and that the person meant to go back and finish this but just didn't; therefore no further modifications were needed. Given the known EF issues, I knew the current system wasn't sufficient, so I equipped the person with a red pen for "stop" (chore completed) and a green pen for "go" (go back to this before the end of the day). I then printed a week-by-week chart of chores onto which the person can now check off each as he goes. Now it is a checklist.

            Before, he was only to refer to it, complete the task, and move on. Now he actually marks on the chart. This not only gives him a physical task to link to attending to the chore chart but also gives himself a way to see at a glance what he needs to go back to finish. It is similar to the diving board metaphor. "Do your chores according to the printed chart" was the high dive. Now he has a method that helps him attend to the chart, mark his progress, and stay on track. At first he saw no need for this, but when he saw the order in in all, he seemed very pleased. He placed his pens alongside the chart. Then he began marking everything throughout the day.

            Anything you can do to break things down and make them successful will help.

            As for books -- these two do not rely excessively on either progressivism or behaviorism:

            - Smart but Scattered series
            - Late, Lost, & Unprepared: A Parent's Guide to Helping Children with Executive Functioning
            I've read both of those (and marked them up extensively), but I guess I was hoping to find a resource that clearly said, "This is how to adjust the Socratic and Mimetic methods for these situations," and then gave a step-by-step for how to do that. My brain needs a plain and simple road map right now despite needing to navigate things that are anything but plain and simple.

            Jennifer


            2018-2019
            DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
            DS-12 (6M)
            DS-10 (SC3)
            DD-8 (MP2)
            DD-6 (SC2)
            DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
              Linked to “errorless learning — errorless because the student does the task with somebody else long enough to be confident when asked to do it alone. Furthermore, errors are “pre-corrected” — that is, if the teacher expects that the student will have difficulty, then the teacher offers the support needed to ensure that the student will be successful.”]

              I use cues/prompts, back up to earlier questions, ask refining questions, etc. to help with student discussions.
              Sorry the previous answer was not more helpful. It sounds like a mix of the above-quoted approaches can work well! When I observed at HLS not long ago I noticed a type of "errorless" learning in the sense that the master teacher taught, reviewed, and overtaught before asking students questions to which she knew they knew the answer. I call it "Ask the Obvious." It seems obvious to us but is then a joy for the student to answer.

              it sounds as if you are doing very well! Do not let our responses discourage you. I think your question is a good one and may require more thought than we can give here. Maybe others will chime in, or maybe we can revisit this at Sodalitas. Or maybe you will create such a resource as the one you are seeking!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by cherylswope View Post

                Sorry the previous answer was not more helpful. It sounds like a mix of the above-quoted approaches can work well! When I observed at HLS not long ago I noticed a type of "errorless" learning in the sense that the master teacher taught, reviewed, and overtaught before asking students questions to which she knew they knew the answer. I call it "Ask the Obvious." It seems obvious to us but is then a joy for the student to answer.

                it sounds as if you are doing very well! Do not let our responses discourage you. I think your question is a good one and may require more thought than we can give here. Maybe others will chime in, or maybe we can revisit this at Sodalitas. Or maybe you will create such a resource as the one you are seeking!
                Actually, you were more helpful than you realized I pulled out Smart but Scattered again and that reminded me of the Work-Smart Academic Planner that the SbS authors created. It looks fantastic. I'm going to order one tomorrow and work through it with A: https://www.amazon.com/Work-Smart-Ac.../dp/1462530206

                As for the actual instruction portion, I'm going to keep referring to Paul Schaeffer's recent CLSA webinar on Socratic questioning as he made distinctions in approach between younger and older children. I can see how the younger approach could be used for older children who struggle, as a way of preparing them for further discussion.

                Once next year's books arrive, I'll look through each subject and see if pacing needs to be adjusted in the areas he struggles in most (math, foreign language, and science).

                To finish up this year, I wrote down one thing he struggles with most in each class and we'll use the strategies from the above-mentioned planner to address those, hopefully finishing the year well. If the planner helps this year, we'll continue using it next year.

                I'm sure there will be twists and turns along the way, but we have a path!
                Jennifer


                2018-2019
                DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
                DS-12 (6M)
                DS-10 (SC3)
                DD-8 (MP2)
                DD-6 (SC2)
                DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jen1134 View Post

                  I was hoping to find a resource that clearly said, "This is how to adjust the Socratic and Mimetic methods for these situations," and then gave a step-by-step for how to do that. My brain needs a plain and simple road map right now despite needing to navigate things that are anything but plain and simple.
                  I would love a resource like this! I am meeting with the public school on Tuesday to discuss my son's evaluation and am planning to ask them for any resources, ideas, or exercises to deal with attention difficulties and processing speed. Right now my modifications are slowing down the pacing and answering more challenging questions orally, but I would love ideas on how to improve my son's weak areas rather than only modify for them.
                  Catherine

                  2018-19
                  DS15, 9th
                  DS13, 6th
                  DS11, 5th
                  DD11, 5th
                  DS6, K
                  DD3
                  DS 10 mos

                  Homeschooling 3 with MP
                  2 using First Form series in school

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by cherylswope View Post

                    Sorry the previous answer was not more helpful. It sounds like a mix of the above-quoted approaches can work well! When I observed at HLS not long ago I noticed a type of "errorless" learning in the sense that the master teacher taught, reviewed, and overtaught before asking students questions to which she knew they knew the answer. I call it "Ask the Obvious." It seems obvious to us but is then a joy for the student to answer.

                    Not to hijack the thread, but I need more training in this area of over-teaching some subjects - especially literature. In this scenario ("Ask the Obvious" - I love that btw), how do you gauge that the student isn't just waiting to hear the answer and repeat it? How do you know if they are gaining ground in comprehension? Are the literature guides expanded (or maybe the curriculum guide) for SC so that I can over-teach the questions and their answers before we ask them?
                    Melissa

                    DS (MP2) - 8
                    DS (MP1) - 7
                    DS (K) - 5
                    DD (Adorable distraction) 2

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, we're not talking about the model Jen found, in which the child merely says "okay" after you give the answer!

                      In SC 2 we try to teach and over-teach through varied forms of practice and review. We teach and over-teach comprehension specifically in SC 2: Comprehension, Calculations, and Character, but we try to encourage this in all of our lessons. We use visual cues for question words to teach the actual question words we will be asking. ("Who" will have a person as the answer.) We also use visualizing scenes via various techniques and through drawing/illustrating scenes to help comprehension. You will find this throughout the SC lessons.

                      The MP guides, when taught as intended, provide much of this inherently. Scroll down this page of free videos to the session with Tanya Charlton & Leigh Lowe entitled "Using Memoria Press Guides."

                      This will give you good background. Then SC adds on top of this!

                      Comment

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