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SC Placement?

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    SC Placement?

    I would love some advice on placement for my DD7. We have been with MP since preK and I have noticed that she is having difficulty with reading. We started MP K strong until we reached FSR book C at which time I met with a lot of resistance. We slowed WAY down and stopped at the end of book C. At the end of K she was still painfully sounding out words to include cat C-A-T every time. We spend the summer doing sight words EVERY Day. Our reading was not consistent as we were moving and without our stuff for several months because we are US Military and moved overseas. However, she still does not remember her sight words and gets hung up on and, am, sometime even the. This year 1st we did a complete review of all of the letter sounds using SC1 phonics curriculum and we're slowly moving through FSR Book D. However, she is still really struggling with reading. I have allowed her to go ahead and start cursive and we have begun to work through Story Time Treasures Little bear but she is remembering more of the story then reading it. However, I want her to have experience with comprehension questions and sentence structure. She is very sharp and remembers the stories and comprehends what is going on in the literature. My suspicion is that she is dyslexic or something similar because she also reverses numbers and the teens and twenties have her baffled. Getting her tested is proving a bit challenging here and I don't think I'll have much access to services if she is indeed diagnosed.

    Whew... all of that being said, I am considering placing her in SC2 next year instead of my current heavily modified MP1. In looking at the curriculum it lines up with where we are so I believe that would be a good placement. I'm wondering if any Momma's with a similar situation have seen this or other things help for a struggling reader. I know there many be many helps Stateside but I am dealing with limited availability. Really what I'm looking for is someone to say... "we switched to SC2 and now my child is an amazing reader and I can't get her out of books"... please? Someone? Help a Momma out!

    #2
    LokkerMama,

    My first thought when reading your post was to ask if this could be a vision issue. As far as services and testing you will need to wait for others to reply but I can give you some practices that will provide blending and reading practice. Pushing her ahead to quickly may be counter productive at this stage if she is still struggling with simple common words. You might consider taking the information in FSR Book C and using the flashcards, classical phonics, a whiteboard, and lined paper go through the material again. Since it is presented in different media it won't be like you are doing the same book again. Be sure she knows the sound of each letter individually (pull those alphabet flashcards from Books A and B and do a little test.) Set aside the cards she doesn't identify the letter name or sound and review those often, flashcard style. Go through the stack twice, once to say the letter name and once to say its sound. Once this is mastered, begin going through lessons in FSR where you believe mastery stopped. Show the phonics flashcards for the letter and ensure she is hearing and saying the sound correctly. Add this card to stack of ones she knows. Start every lesson by going through this flashcard stack. Also add the common word cards to your before lesson routine. Use your teacher guide and proceed with the lesson having her complete her writing on lined paper or a whiteboard. If her writing/formation is really good, skip this part and just have her blend and read the listed words aloud to you. Break up lessons if necessary with breaks and snacks but she needs to be pointing with her finger (for focus) blending and reading aloud as much as possible. Add dictations to each day of words from FSR Books A and B. One day dictate 10 words she can hear all the sounds in (CVC words) and the next dictate common words (have a group of these written where she can copy the correct word NOT write from memory.)

    Employing these techniques should help your daughter over this stall in her reading and would likely be the some of the same techniques suggested for you regardless. This point in reading can seem as if it goes on forever, but it won't. With systematic practice and review she will read!

    Blessings,

    Comment


      #3
      Sometimes SC 2 can be a bridge to MP 1. SC 2 extends the phonics/reading/spelling/writing basics just for such a situation. If she needs SC 2 and your instinct is that it lines up with where she is, feel free to teach SC 2!

      You can incorporate Michelle T's good suggestions above into what you are doing now, teach from SC 2 next year with special focus on your daughter's reading, spelling, and writing. Near the end of SC 2 y
      ou can evaluate her progress and determine whether she will need SC 3 (and beyond) or whether she can hop back to the MP track.

      Comment


        #4
        My daughter (7 on Saturday) has some similar struggles. She too has a strong memory and tries to rely on that when reading a story she already knows. She also inserts what she thinks the next word will be, based on context, rather than reading the actual word. The tens/teens threw her for a loop as well, she still mixes up b and d when reading, and she goes through cycles where she forgets am, an, the, and other words she knew amazingly well just a week before.

        I second Michelle’s instinct about vision issues. My 10yo just became fluent in reading this year and it turns out that undetected vision issues were part of the problem. You can do a simple at-home test as a screen: put a fun eraser on top of a pencil and tell her to look only at that. Then slowly move the pencil towards her nose. Watch to see if her eyes converge in the center. Then, repeat this several more times (this is what regular optometrists miss), watching to see if her convergence begins to weaken. If she has convergence issues, looking at books/pages will wear her down which will then affect her ability to remember what she worked on.

        Another test: using the same pen/pencil, slowly move it across her line of vision from one side to the other. Watch for any “jumping” or “twitching” movements by the eyeball itself. Again, repeat this several times as some children don’t have a problem until they’ve had to track multiple times (as when reading).

        Final test: get a second pencil and hold one on the right side and one on the left. Ask her to look at one and then the other, going back and forth between them. Again, watch for jumping, twitching, wandering to look at something else in the same direction, etc.

        In the absence of therapy options, there’s a website that our OT told me about. It has various online challenges you can use to help strengthen the eye muscles. I’ll have to find the link.

        If convergence is an issue, you can compensate while you wait for the strengthening to work. Simply hold her book at an angle: 27 degrees is the recommended but my son seems to do best at a steeper angle. I just held at different spots until we found the one that seemed to lead to the least amount of reading errors.

        For tens/twenties: I printed off some Montessori-style paper beads in ones and tens. I then showed her how we can trade 10 beads for a ten-bar — ten. I then placed a single bead next to the ten and we counted: eleven. I then added a second bead and we counted: twelve. As you repeat this through the teens, she should start to see the pattern: it’s just ten and some more. We then repeated this with the twenties. We did this over 2-3 days, adding an element where I would ask her to “make twelve” or “make 25”. Then, we would make a number and write it down on a piece of paper that had a column for “units” (she said that was less confusing than saying “ones”) and a column for tens. How many unit beads do we have? That’s right, so we write 4 in the units place. How many tens do we have? That’s right, so we write 2 in the tens place. We have 24! It took about a week and she then wasn’t afraid to open her math book anymore!

        For the phonics troubles, the review that Michelle mentioned is spot-on (of course!). We just did this with my girl. She started SC2 this year but she was shutting down with Moose Moments. She said there were tons of words that she didn’t know. So, based on advice I received here, I took the words from Classical Phonics that coincided with her phonics trouble spots, and made little cards with them (two cards for each word). We then played memory to introduce a set and then the next day we would play go-fish. Then, I would introduce a new set and we would add those to the others. As the set became too big (one day we had a memory game that took up two tables!), I broke them up into individual sets by phonics pattern and just pulled what was needed for the day. We did this for about 2-3 weeks, including new sight words from the current Moose Moments book. After that, last week, she read two Moose Moments stories beautifully! Her confidence is back. We’ll be continuing this routine with both past and future phonics/sight words.

        I have to get my crew started on school for the day, but I’ll post pics of the cards and beads later today. For the cards, I used the colorful letters system from Traditional Spelling to help her see the phonetic chunks.

        Jennifer
        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

        2022
        DS18: Graduated and living his dream in the automotive trades
        DS17: MP, MPOA, headed to his favorite liberal arts college this fall
        DS15: MP, MPOA
        DS13: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
        DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
        DD10: SC3
        DD7: MPK

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for your input. Michelle T, thank you for the practices. In an odd way it was encouraging because we have been going through all of the letters & sounds daily, we did go back and reviewed all letters similarly the first half of the year. Because we had completed FSR A-C I used a notebook and Core Skills along with the SC1 phonics to provide practice and some tactile learning. The letter tiles seemed to really help her grasp the word families however that didn't translate to reading fluently for her. We also suspected a problem with her vision so we had her eyes checked and they said she's seeing 20/20. After reading a bit about dyslexia, the best way I can explain her reading is that everything is sounded out... even sight words. No words seem to have moved into her "word box" where she can glance at them quickly and recall them. Also she can NOT understand rhyming words at all. I have recently read a comment about visual processing disorder but I haven't found much information about it. She seems to have little/no visual recall in any area of her life. She does not remember where toys belong, she can't remember signs words, she can't visually remember numbers even if candy is involved. We keep going over and over these words and sounds but they still seem out of her grasp. Today I told her to put a chocolate chip on a number and then she could have it but she needed a lot of help and got it wrong the first time every time. The numbers were between 11-50 which she has been working with in Rod and Staff.

          I could try the dictation. Last year she did well with dictation but when asked to see the sight words and copy them she would have a fit or quit.

          Thank you for reading and input... Right now I think I will continue our course, thanks to Michelle's encouragement and go ahead and switch to SC2.

          Comment


            #6
            Unfortunately, a child can have 20/20 vision and still have visual processing issues because those are based on how the brain is processing the information that is coming in through the eyes. They can also have 20/20 and still have tracking or convergence issues. That’s why these things don’t get caught be a regular eye exam.

            A friend of of mine has 2-3 children with visual processing issues. There’s a specific kind of therapy that has helped tremendously but I don’t remember the name. I’ll see if I can get more info from their experiences.
            Jennifer
            Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

            2022
            DS18: Graduated and living his dream in the automotive trades
            DS17: MP, MPOA, headed to his favorite liberal arts college this fall
            DS15: MP, MPOA
            DS13: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
            DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
            DD10: SC3
            DD7: MPK

            Comment


              #7
              By vision, I think Michelle & Jen are suggesting not acuity (20/20 is wonderful!) but checking for issues like convergence insufficiency.

              For now tiles and phonogram cards may be easier for her to see, so you might use those more than word lists for review. When Classical Phonics word lists appear in the lesson plans, you can write these on the board with good spacing. Use color coding as Jen suggested.

              Comment


                #8
                Vision Processing and vision are two different things. My daughter (currently 12 but VT at 10) has 20/20 vision—first one to spot wildlife, etc and spent a year in VT to correct processing and convergence issues. The therapy worked a great deal on right/left awareness and other things that I would have never guessed. Field of vision can also be an issue..at close reading, she only saw an area about the size of a golf ball! And tracking from the end of a line to the beginning of the next took her eyes about 4-5 ‘jumps’ to find the right spot.
                She too sounded everything out and it was PAINFUL to do reading & math schoolwork. She confused b and p and really didn’t seem to grasp sounds of letters, etc. But after learning all the obsticals she was working against, I was rather amazed she could read anything!!


                So I can give you hope that if it is the issue, and you get a good VT and work through the exercises, it makes a world of difference!!! Reading new words/sounding-out is still a challenge (I think she is just use to guessing from the first few letters) but amazing difference. Confidence has soared ..she reads for fun and is a crochet-crazy person. We backtracked to learn phonics again after VT but it went much faster and stuck.

                Ive had 3 children need VT (not all for the same issue and only one who had a visible eye-turn) and each one has made significant improvement afterward. They are each in bifocals now to aid in the close-focus.
                Last edited by Hahcook; 02-26-2019, 10:42 AM.
                Regards, Hollie Hoped for 2021/22: DD 2003 - 12; MPOA Austen Lit, Henle I, Senior Thesis DS 2004 - 12; MPOA Tolkien Lit, Christian Latin DS 2006- 9; VideoText Algebra, MPOA: 4FL, HS Comp I DD 2007 - 9, MPOA Common Topic; CTC Math DD 2008- 8A/9; MPOA Henle 1, Common Topic; CTC Math DD 2011 - Core 5 DS 2015- cruising through K over summer, 1st grade in Fall DS 2020 - learning and teaching every day! Using MP complete since 2016-17; bits and pieces for many years previous

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Hahcook View Post
                  Vision Processing and vision are two different things. My daughter (currently 12 but VT at 10) has 20/20 vision—first one to spot wildlife, etc and spent a year in VT to correct processing and convergence issues. The therapy worked a great deal on right/left awareness and other things that I would have never guessed. Field of vision can also be an issue..at close reading, she only saw an area about the size of a golf ball! And tracking from the end of a line to the beginning of the next took her eyes about 4-5 ‘jumps’ to find the right spot.
                  She too sounded everything out and it was PAINFUL to do reading & math schoolwork. She confused b and p and really didn’t seem to grasp sounds of letters, etc. But after learning all the obsticals she was working against, I was rather amazed she could read anything!!


                  So I can give you hope that if it is the issue, and you get a good VT and work through the exercises, it makes a world of difference!!! Reading new words/sounding-out is still a challenge (I think she is just use to guessing from the first few letters) but amazing difference. Confidence has soared ..she reads for fun and is a crochet-crazy person. We backtracked to learn phonics again after VT but it went much faster and stuck.

                  Ive had 3 children need VT (not all for the same issue and only one who had a visible eye-turn) and each one has made significant improvement afterward. They are each in bifocals now to aid in the close-focus.
                  ^^ The friend I mentioned. Thanks Hollie!!
                  Jennifer
                  Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                  2022
                  DS18: Graduated and living his dream in the automotive trades
                  DS17: MP, MPOA, headed to his favorite liberal arts college this fall
                  DS15: MP, MPOA
                  DS13: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
                  DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
                  DD10: SC3
                  DD7: MPK

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Jen, I must have been typing at the same time you were on that previous post because I did not see it before I posted in response to Michelle. Thank you, thank you, thank you for your post. I printed it out and will give those tests a shot tomorrow. It is bed time here in Germany.

                    Hancook - what is a VT? Where do you find one? We have limited services but if I know what I'm looking for I can search them out.

                    Cheryl and Michelle - Thank you for your guidance and clarifying vision test. Is there someone specific that can test for these other difficulties or is it just something I test for at home as Jen mentioned and then take in to my Pediatrician? I will try to apply the color code and phonogram techniques.

                    I truly appreciate all of your input.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Through the link I posted or through covd.org, you may find VT (vision therapy) in Germany.

                      This can be a tricky field in which to navigate fact from fiction, so you would do well to obtain references, recommendations from a trusted pediatrician, or other word-of-mouth approbation before spending money; however, if pursued carefully, this might help you with one important piece of your child's learning puzzle.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Vision Therapy, as Cheryl mentioned. I would Second the advice to do your research. We’ve used two different therapists and although I liked the first, I am so very impressed by our current office. If you were in Northern Indiana, I’d have strong recommendations for you!!
                        Our current stresses at home, daily activities. They give us an estimate of how long the therapy should take to solve the problem and that is how they base the fee. There is not a great deal of flashy tech but each thing has a designed purpose.
                        Regards, Hollie Hoped for 2021/22: DD 2003 - 12; MPOA Austen Lit, Henle I, Senior Thesis DS 2004 - 12; MPOA Tolkien Lit, Christian Latin DS 2006- 9; VideoText Algebra, MPOA: 4FL, HS Comp I DD 2007 - 9, MPOA Common Topic; CTC Math DD 2008- 8A/9; MPOA Henle 1, Common Topic; CTC Math DD 2011 - Core 5 DS 2015- cruising through K over summer, 1st grade in Fall DS 2020 - learning and teaching every day! Using MP complete since 2016-17; bits and pieces for many years previous

                        Comment

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