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Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

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    Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

    My 15yo (9th grade) has always struggled with memorization and itís led to a lot of struggles with Latin. Heís in Third Form this year with MPOA and feeling like a failure. His teacher said heís mixing up the active and passive endings and advised studying each separately. The thing is, A is already doing that. He recites, does flashcards on Quizlet, quizzes himself with Quizlet, and writes them out. He does some combination of this everyday. Latin sayings are not sticking either. Is there anything else he can do??? His high school grades are really rough in all subjects despite him working hard. I donít know how to help him.
    Jennifer


    2018-2019
    DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
    DS-12 (6M)
    DS-10 (SC3)
    DD-8 (MP2)
    DD-6 (SC2)
    DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

    #2
    Re: Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

    Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
    My 15yo (9th grade) has always struggled with memorization and itís led to a lot of struggles with Latin. Heís in Third Form this year with MPOA and feeling like a failure. His teacher said heís mixing up the active and passive endings and advised studying each separately. The thing is, A is already doing that. He recites, does flashcards on Quizlet, quizzes himself with Quizlet, and writes them out. He does some combination of this everyday. Latin sayings are not sticking either. Is there anything else he can do??? His high school grades are really rough in all subjects despite him working hard. I donít know how to help him.
    ETA: my husband just gave me the go-ahead to pursue public school testing for A...but I still donít know what to do for him in the meantime. And A is so upset that he doesnít even want help right now.
    Jennifer


    2018-2019
    DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
    DS-12 (6M)
    DS-10 (SC3)
    DD-8 (MP2)
    DD-6 (SC2)
    DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

      Good morning, Jen. I'm sorry he's struggling. It is so hard to see our children feel so discouraged.

      If you have not yet told the teacher what you told us (e.g., that he is studying the separate items separately and working extra hard, and that he has known memory/learning challenges you expect to assess more fully), this would be a place to start. If he is not yet watching the DVDs once weekly to review, that might also help. He might also cut his workload in other courses for a time. Clearly performing well in the class is important to him.

      Did he do well with First and Second Form? If yes, this is no small thing! With his memory challenges (and possibly more), he can be proud of accomplishing FFL and SFL. In our Simply Classical Curriculum we take students no higher than First Form!

      Currently he is comparing himself to erudite peers rather than looking at the broad picture of his own education and his own inherited challenges, so if you can find a calm moment, it would be good to point this out. He has achieved much to this point, and his current difficulties do not seem to be for lack of effort! Be sure he understands this. It is not a character issue or moral failing but, rather, a symptom of something that you/your husband share and plan to investigate with him.

      In the meantime, you might see if the instructor would allow your son to use the visual charts or other accommodations as he masters the content. If the teacher does not know how disheartened your son has become, you might share this and see if any encouragement could be offered directly to him from the teacher.

      You might offer to go over flash cards with him, determine exactly what is/is not mastered, and work one-to-one with him with his Latin, setting aside other responsibilities for a time.

      Of course all of this presumes your son wants accommodations or help. You or your husband will need to have a heart-to-heart talk with him, revealing your own need for accommodations and help in learning and in life, and assuring him that if he wants help, you and your husband will help him.

      If he sulks or is unduly self-pitying, be careful to let him know that help is available when he is ready to accept it. Then give him some time. If he is like my son, he may ponder this in his room, on a run, or in the shower and come to you earnestly ready for help.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

        Jen,

        I just wanted to offer a bit of encouragement and let you know that others are praying for your situation. Third Form Latin has rightfully earned its reputation as being a challenging class. The new material isnít so hard as much as it is weird. Where it really gets tough is the unrelenting pace if the book is going to be covered in a year. My son is in the same section as your son and I watch the class most weeks so I can do recitation with the boys in our cottage school. I have been trying to go through the workbook myself as well. I have nothing to contribute about any underlying causes, but here are a couple of questions/observations/insights from our experiences with third form.

        1. Cheryl asked how he did in 2nd form...this is big. There is a lot of new material mid to end of second form, particularly passive forms and 3rd/4th/3rd I stem that show up heavily in the beginning of third form without substantial review. I didnít finish the end of second form as I was on the slow boat to China when I found out I was teaching third form.

        2. What does his recitation look like? One of my second form kids can fake following along with the recitation but solo with no notes he is in trouble. His issue isnít memory, but lack of practice since he did first form literally by himself. The point is I can read and say the recitation, but get me to the 3rd conjugation passive and I am toast. Make sure he is doing some of it without notes.

        3. Quizlet - I have a love/hate relationship with this site. Which ones is he playing? Scatter does nothing for me. I can do really well and improve my time, but it doesnít force me to produce anything so it doesnít transfer well for quizzes (yes I take the ones in the quiz book as well). Learn and Gravity are much better as long as your son can type well. My son hates to type so he has gone back to making his own flash cards. Quizlet only helps with vocabulary as set up in the class sets. Your sonís last post to the ask a teacher forum said he did pretty well on vocabulary so maybe Quizlet is working for him. I think he said it was quiz 8 which was mostly review. Something is sticking on the vocabulary front - is it easier for him to remember vocabulary because of derivatives he already know?

        4. Homework - is he doing the drill form sheets? These are a big deal, but rather easy to blow off when there are 6 or 7 worksheets a week in the lesson. I would rather see him focus on those than spend a lot of time on translation. They are not currently new material, but continued practice on what we have been learning. They figure HEAVILY into the total points on the quizzes because there are just so many boxes to fill in. MP wants the kids to be successful and if you look at the 3rd form quiz book there is almost always one of the the two verbs from the drill sheets on the quiz. I assume that he is having trouble remembering the forms all week, not just on quizzes. Can he remember a chunk (say imperfect passive) once given the first form? Since Quizlet seems to work reasonably well for vocabulary, maybe he can make his own sets for new forms.

        5. Quizzes - have you considered reviewing the paper tests with him before he takes the online quiz? They are not identical, but they are similar. I have one son who has days when he forgets a definition we talked about the day before, but once he refreshes his memory is good to go for a bit. Also, my daughter advised her brother not to use the ďcheckĒ button too soon as it deducts points each time you use it after the first attempt. Also, make sure he studies his mistakes before attempting his retake on the quiz. You can go back and look at mistakes once the quiz is submitted. It seems obvious to adults, but as I can attest to, sometimes not to kids. Do you think the memory issues could be related to anxiety? The time pressure of the clock is a big change from taking quizzes at home. Maybe there is a way to get extra time or somehow submit them in another format.

        6. Overall workload - looking at your signature line, he does seem to have a challenging schedule. Make sure he really has time to devote to his online classes this year. It really can be an adjustment getting used to the new expectations.

        As for figuring out a plan, I would advise calling Mr. Piland directly about any possible accommodations and just to let him know what is going on. He is really the one who is going to be able to make those decisions, not the individual teacher. I hope some of this helps while you are waiting for testing. If not, feel free to disregard.
        Dorinda

        DD 15 - 10th with MPOA(Biology, Novel, Material Logic/Rhetoric ), Lukeion (Greek3, Latin 3)
        DS 13 - 8A with MPOA(Third Form and composition)
        DS 10 - 5M
        DS 5 - K with AAR3

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Memory issues impacting Latin and High school

          Thank you so much for this, Dorinda! I'm sharing it with A so we can work out a plan. I emailed Dr. Dray yesterday and copied Mr. Piland as well. I'll give it a day or so, but thank you for the reminder that a call may be in order!
          Jennifer


          2018-2019
          DS-14 & DS-15 (MP9 Literature, Novare Intro to Physics, Light to the Nations I (CTP), MPOA for: Latin, Pre-Algebra, Ref/Con
          DS-12 (6M)
          DS-10 (SC3)
          DD-8 (MP2)
          DD-6 (SC2)
          DD-3 (NT using SCB for gradual intro to JrK)

          Comment

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