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Math other than Rod and Staff

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    Math other than Rod and Staff

    I officially detest Rod and Staff math. I am not going to do this program. I do not care that it is the one chosen by MP at this point. It is terrible. The instruction is horrible. There is nothing in it that helps me teach at all. We had used Math-U-See, and it makes sense to me. My daughter got confused in the middle of Beta. We did Life of Fred Apples (which also made sense to me, but does not teach enough math) for a bit and I bought grade 2 Rod and Staff. The review part is so easy that it is honestly not worth us doing. My daughter can rattle off her addition and subtraction facts. She has no trouble with place value. So I started looking at the first lessons that actually instruct the kids, and the instruction is completely unmeaningful, unclear, unhelpful, and generally just terrible. Now that I have ranted, I want a suggestion of what to do. I am NOT doing R&S. That is no longer on the table. Should I go back to the beginning of Math-U-See Beta and just start again, or is there another program I should try? I have heard good things about Teaching Textbooks but I think it is for 3rd grade and above math. I would love to hear from anyone who is not suggesting that I try R&S because I am just not doing that to myself or my kid no matter if every person on the Forum thinks it is the best math program ever.
    JeJe Greer
    Mom to:
    Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
    Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

    #2
    Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

    Hi, Jeje. I noticed that you received plenty of advice on the MP SC Families FB page, so I will only reiterate that you steer your own ship and may certainly select any math program you like. Mrs. Lowe appreciated the mastery approach with systematic review and R&S's no-nonsense presentation of arithmetic as the foundation for all mathematics. You are free to teach from any math program that accomplishes this for your daughter. If you are still deciding, this recent thread might help. If not, feel free to make a decision & stay with it. If you and your daughter already had steady, measurable success with a different math program, there may be no need to change!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

      Originally posted by cherylswope View Post
      Hi, Jeje. I noticed that you received plenty of advice on the MP SC Families FB page, so I will only reiterate that you steer your own ship and may certainly select any math program you like. Mrs. Lowe appreciated the mastery approach with systematic review and R&S's no-nonsense presentation of arithmetic as the foundation for all mathematics. You are free to teach from any math program that accomplishes this for your daughter. If you are still deciding, this recent thread might help. If not, feel free to make a decision & stay with it. If you and your daughter already had steady, measurable success with a different math program, there may be no need to change!
      I am still not getting any additional instruction on how to explain carrying over and borrowing, nor on how to explain multiple digit subtraction. I really need more instruction on how to teach these things if we are to use Rod and Staff Math, or any math at all. I am really flipping out about how to teach my kid carrying over. Is there anyplace else that Rod and Staff gives you more information on how to make it sink in? We cannot have another repeat of last year where Clara completely refuses to do math because she does not understand carrying. That leaves me worried about trying Math-U-See again, too. I do not know if I should just follow the math 2 plans and then at least I could ask people here what they do when I get to all of these points that I do not understand how to teach.
      JeJe Greer
      Mom to:
      Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
      Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

        Hi JeJe! My daughter really struggled with carrying and borrowing, too. It’s a difficult concept. Just to put your mind at ease, I do not use Rod and Staff math, either. It is the only swap I make from MP packages. My daughter really struggled in it. I use math mammoth with her, and she really has thrived, but we make modifications. We are going slow, and I always add manipulatives. In math mammoth, they teach the concept of regrouping ones into 10 rods before teaching the notation of regrouping. My daughter and I spent more than a month probably practicing this. I have the units, rods and hundreds for hands on practice. So she would count 10 little units and give them to me in exchange for 1 rod. We did this over and over again, and then I began to teach her what that meant on paper. I am not at my computer at the moment, but I want to link up to the manipulative set that has made all the difference for us I my daughter actually understanding regrouping. I will post again here once I look that up for you. And I’d be happy to post more about how we worked through place value, regrouping and borrowing if you want.
        Emily J

        2018-2019 School Year
        DD (11)-MP 5 core
        DD (9)-SC 4
        DD (8)-MP 2 core
        DS (6)-SC B

        *Be of good cheer. Do not think of today's failures, but of the success that may come tomorrow. You have set yourself a difficult task but you will succeed if you persevere: and you will find joy in overcoming obstacles. Remember, no effort that we make to obtain something beautiful is ever lost. ~Helen Keller*

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

          This manipulative set has seen a lot of use for us: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Reso.../dp/B000F8VBBO
          Emily J

          2018-2019 School Year
          DD (11)-MP 5 core
          DD (9)-SC 4
          DD (8)-MP 2 core
          DS (6)-SC B

          *Be of good cheer. Do not think of today's failures, but of the success that may come tomorrow. You have set yourself a difficult task but you will succeed if you persevere: and you will find joy in overcoming obstacles. Remember, no effort that we make to obtain something beautiful is ever lost. ~Helen Keller*

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

            Originally posted by EmilyJ View Post
            Hi JeJe! My daughter really struggled with carrying and borrowing, too. It’s a difficult concept. Just to put your mind at ease, I do not use Rod and Staff math, either. It is the only swap I make from MP packages. My daughter really struggled in it. I use math mammoth with her, and she really has thrived, but we make modifications. We are going slow, and I always add manipulatives. In math mammoth, they teach the concept of regrouping ones into 10 rods before teaching the notation of regrouping. My daughter and I spent more than a month probably practicing this. I have the units, rods and hundreds for hands on practice. So she would count 10 little units and give them to me in exchange for 1 rod. We did this over and over again, and then I began to teach her what that meant on paper. I am not at my computer at the moment, but I want to link up to the manipulative set that has made all the difference for us I my daughter actually understanding regrouping. I will post again here once I look that up for you. And I’d be happy to post more about how we worked through place value, regrouping and borrowing if you want.
            Math-U-See did that, too. We have unit blocks and tens blocks and 100s blocks. I may need to just try what you said and make her exchange ten ones for the ten block multiple times before I let her see any paper again. I would love to see your manipulative set, too.
            JeJe Greer
            Mom to:
            Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
            Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

              Originally posted by EmilyJ View Post
              This manipulative set has seen a lot of use for us: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Reso.../dp/B000F8VBBO
              This looks like the Math-U-See blocks, except that we do not have the big cube. Does the booklet that they come with help? I am willing to try anything at this point, and if the book helps maybe we use it until we understand regrouping. I love the cube, too!
              JeJe Greer
              Mom to:
              Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
              Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

                Honestly, we didn’t really use the booklet much. I had my daughter regrouping without paper first, then I would give her a number and have her build it with the blocks, and I had this poster I made with spaces for the place values: she would have to put the correct blocks in each box. So, at the top, I put hundred, tens, ones (using pictures of the blocks and words) and then a space to build the number at the bottom. Eventually I used that chart to help her understand what would happen when we regrouped. So, for example, she builds 27 using the blocks and the chart: she puts 2 ten rods in the tens box and 7 unit cubes in the ones box. Then we work through what happens when we add 1 unit cube at a time...when we get to 10 unit cubes, she knows what to do, exchange for a ten rod, and then we look at the new number. We did that for a while, then started writing the numbers and then the notation of adding a little 1 in math problems, but always using the blocks too until I knew she had it.
                Emily J

                2018-2019 School Year
                DD (11)-MP 5 core
                DD (9)-SC 4
                DD (8)-MP 2 core
                DS (6)-SC B

                *Be of good cheer. Do not think of today's failures, but of the success that may come tomorrow. You have set yourself a difficult task but you will succeed if you persevere: and you will find joy in overcoming obstacles. Remember, no effort that we make to obtain something beautiful is ever lost. ~Helen Keller*

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

                  Originally posted by EmilyJ View Post
                  Honestly, we didn’t really use the booklet much. I had my daughter regrouping without paper first, then I would give her a number and have her build it with the blocks, and I had this poster I made with spaces for the place values: she would have to put the correct blocks in each box. So, at the top, I put hundred, tens, ones (using pictures of the blocks and words) and then a space to build the number at the bottom. Eventually I used that chart to help her understand what would happen when we regrouped. So, for example, she builds 27 using the blocks and the chart: she puts 2 ten rods in the tens box and 7 unit cubes in the ones box. Then we work through what happens when we add 1 unit cube at a time...when we get to 10 unit cubes, she knows what to do, exchange for a ten rod, and then we look at the new number. We did that for a while, then started writing the numbers and then the notation of adding a little 1 in math problems, but always using the blocks too until I knew she had it.
                  This is honestly exactly what Math-U-See does. It even has the chart already made. The issue is probably that it went too fast for her and she did not have enough time to practice moving the blocks. Maybe I will just spend the first couple of weeks of the year having her just do that with the chart, so that by time we add the paper she will already be thinking that in her head. If it worked for your child in a month, I think it could work for Clara in the same amount of time. I may just have to realize that we cannot go through one lesson of Math-U-See a week for her like we did with Alpha and like I did for my daughter without any learning disabilities. Thank you so much for your help, Emily!
                  JeJe Greer
                  Mom to:
                  Stella (6M in 2018-2019)
                  Clara (SC3 in 2018-2019)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Math other than Rod and Staff

                    Yes, base ten blocks were a life saver for us. We had a wooden set that included the hundred cube. I needed the set for my daughter for several years! We used base ten blocks to illustrate both multi-digit addition and subtraction. We should add these to our optional supply list.

                    Thanks, Emily & JeJe!

                    Comment

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