Henle vs. First Forum

[Naryee]

From what I understand, there is no prerequisites for Henle I. Is there a reason why my son/s shouldn’t take Henle? He is a rising 7th grader. I understand FFL has more helps for parents/teachers but I plan to use MPOA. If he does it know, he could go right into a translation course in 9th grade and have less of a load in high school.

I do see an advantage for us. I have two rising 6th graders. One is a soon to be 12 year old child with high functioning Asperger’s syndrome. The other rising 7th grader will be 13 years old in 2 weeks. He has struggled in public school but has done ok while homeschooled. His spelling is horrible, but he reads well and is a delight to listen to. He is using the fifth grade literature set now. Since I think he can handle it, I plan to skip the 6th grade set so he could read Troy before he (and my other son) tackles the Iliad and Odyssey in the Classical Studies I course he is taking with MPOA this fall. BTW: I would love for him and he would love to read the Middle Ages 6th grade set. Also, he would love the 7th grade set also.

FYI: We also have a 10 year old 4th grade girl (struggles with reading and math), 6 year old in Kindergarten and 2 year old little one running around.

Any thoughts?

[pschaeffer]

Hi Naryee,

Henle goes through the grammar at twice the pace than Henle does. So while you are correct that there are no prerequisites for Henle, you just have to weigh whether he can take on that amount of information coming at him quickly. Since Latin is a language of stems and endings, I worry that since he isn't a good speller, he will have to work extra hard to be successful at Latin. A slower pace might be more ideal.

We have started offering Second Form Latin intensives in the summer, so if he does First Form this year and wants to continue through next summer, he could possibly wean the four years of the Form series down to three.

Peace,
Paul

[jen1134]

From what I understand, there is no prerequisites for Henle I. Is there a reason why my son/s shouldn’t take Henle? He is a rising 7th grader. I understand FFL has more helps for parents/teachers but I plan to use MPOA. If he does it know, he could go right into a translation course in 9th grade and have less of a load in high school.

I do see an advantage for us. I have two rising 6th graders. One is a soon to be 12 year old child with high functioning Asperger’s syndrome. The other rising 7th grader will be 13 years old in 2 weeks. He has struggled in public school but has done ok while homeschooled. His spelling is horrible, but he reads well and is a delight to listen to. He is using the fifth grade literature set now. Since I think he can handle it, I plan to skip the 6th grade set so he could read Troy before he (and my other son) tackles the Iliad and Odyssey in the Classical Studies I course he is taking with MPOA this fall. BTW: I would love for him and he would love to read the Middle Ages 6th grade set. Also, he would love the 7th grade set also.

FYI: We also have a 10 year old 4th grade girl (struggles with reading and math), 6 year old in Kindergarten and 2 year old little one running around.

Any thoughts?

Spelling caught my sons by surprise when they switched to MPOA for Latin! Because the quizzes are graded automatically by the computer system, there's no way for the teacher to give partial credit for items the student obviously knew but misspelled. On one hand, it motivated my boys to better study the spellings, but on the other it was more pressure for them. This was in the Forms class, but I believe Henle also uses the online quiz system.

[Naryee]

I just read what I posted. I was rushing to type it on my phone (as I am now) and needed to be in a 8:30am meeting.

Thanks for your responses. Maybe we will stick to FFL this year. What I meant to say above: The advantage of doing FFL is that my 10 year old daughter (rising 5th grader) can join her brothers in doing it together. I would however not be able to use MPOA for all three of them (budget). I wanted to use MPOA in hopes that the the kids would feel more motivated. I figured it would be more fun, keep the kids engaged, accountable and above all, deliver solid teaching. My wife would have to manage the day with 6 & 2 year old also.

[tanya]

You know, as a family, you can sign one child up for the MPOA course, and the other two can sit and watch without participating. But they would have the advantage of the classroom teacher. You would just have to administer the quizzes & tests to those two students manually, while the enrolled student takes them online. That would ease your budget!

Tanya

[Naryee]

That’s an option as Tanya. That would keep us accountable. I was thinking about getting the DVDs. Are there any other reasons I may ant to choose the MPOA route the way you’d suggested. (Ie. more history taught via MPOA etc.)

[tanya]

The DVDs are a good option too. You would have your own little Latin class! The advantage of MPOA is the live classroom, online testing and grading, and the help you can get from the teacher. Either option is a good one though. The Forms are easy to teach. The teacher manual is totally scripted for you.

Tanya

[Naryee]

Thank you Paul, Jennifer and Tanya. I appreciate your input.

[jenniferjb]

One other advantage of the online academy is deadlines. When my kids struggle to get work done, they get the online class the next year. My youngest two do many subjects together. My daughter loves online classes, but my son prefers the DVDs. However, I find that her deadlines help me to keep him on track even if he is not taking the class.

[Naryee]

One other advantage of the online academy is deadlines. When my kids struggle to get work done, they get the online class the next year. My youngest two do many subjects together. My daughter loves online classes, but my son prefers the DVDs. However, I find that her deadlines help me to keep him on track even if he is not taking the class.

Thanks a lot. This is encouraging to hear.

[Naryee]

Hi Naryee,

Henle goes through the grammar at twice the pace than Henle does. So while you are correct that there are no prerequisites for Henle, you just have to weigh whether he can take on that amount of information coming at him quickly. Since Latin is a language of stems and endings, I worry that since he isn't a good speller, he will have to work extra hard to be successful at Latin. A slower pace might be more ideal.

We have started offering Second Form Latin intensives in the summer, so if he does First Form this year and wants to continue through next summer, he could possibly wean the four years of the Form series down to three.

Peace,
Paul

Could we this happen?
7th Grade : FFL
7th Grade (Summer) SFL
8th Grade: Henle Latin I, Units 6-14
9th Grade: A translation course

Can one go from SFL to Henle Latin I, Units 6-14?

[pickandgrin]

Naryee Since there's no way to know how your students will respond to the Latin work I would simply recommended placing them in the best fit for the coming year and then wait to plan for future years until you get some feedback. In my experience the first few years are easy to go gangbusters and knock it out of the park. Usually by Third Form students are having to tighten the belt and hunker down. Some students may do well to repeat a level and/or to do a level at a slower pace than 1 per year. You really just won't know until you get into it. Because Latin is a cumulative, mastery subject like math you may also find that kids who could be combined at one point can no longer be combined in subsequent years. Again-no way to predict that others than waiting and seeing.

Is there a particular reason you want them to be in translation at a certain point or age?

I personally would recommend either sticking with the Forms for 4 years or waiting until they are a little older and then going through Henle at the accelerated pace through the Online Academy. They are two different programs, and introduce different vocabulary and concepts (often in a different order). Each is intended to be a complete grammar apart from the other one. Henle is better suited for older students who can do more Latin homework everyday and memorize more vocabulary per lesson for a shorter amount of time overall. The Forms are ideal for students younger than High School who have the time to go through the entire grammar in a more methodical fashion.

Perhaps you could share more about your vision for high school to give us a better idea of what you hope to achieve before you reach there.

My default is always to recommend a path where they can experience success with a reasonable amount of work. That usually means I'm a fan of a slower option.

Just my two cents.

[Naryee]

Naryee Since there's no way to know how your students will respond to the Latin work I would simply recommended placing them in the best fit for the coming year and then wait to plan for future years until you get some feedback. In my experience the first few years are easy to go gangbusters and knock it out of the park. Usually by Third Form students are having to tighten the belt and hunker down. Some students may do well to repeat a level and/or to do a level at a slower pace than 1 per year. You really just won't know until you get into it. Because Latin is a cumulative, mastery subject like math you may also find that kids who could be combined at one point can no longer be combined in subsequent years. Again-no way to predict that others than waiting and seeing.

Is there a particular reason you want them to be in translation at a certain point or age?

I personally would recommend either sticking with the Forms for 4 years or waiting until they are a little older and then going through Henle at the accelerated pace through the Online Academy. They are two different programs, and introduce different vocabulary and concepts (often in a different order). Each is intended to be a complete grammar apart from the other one. Henle is better suited for older students who can do more Latin homework everyday and memorize more vocabulary per lesson for a shorter amount of time overall. The Forms are ideal for students younger than High School who have the time to go through the entire grammar in a more methodical fashion.

Perhaps you could share more about your vision for high school to give us a better idea of what you hope to achieve before you reach there.

My default is always to recommend a path where they can experience success with a reasonable amount of work. That usually means I'm a fan of a slower option.

Just my two cents.

Thanks for your response Jessica. I would like for them to take at least two translation courses before graduating HS. I would leave it up to them, if they would like to do AP Latin. At least one of my children is interesting in Chinese and has been for at least four years. His desire hasn't drifted so I would like to grant him the space and opportunity to do at least three years of of study.

[tanya]

Naryee,

My youngest son had 10 years of Latin at HLS, and he was a terrible Latin student. When he went off to college, he said he was going to take Japanese. I highly discouraged that because I felt he needed to take a foreign language that was based on Latin so he would have a better chance of success. He dug in and insisted on Japanese. He took three years and was a top student in his classes. He did tell me that he felt that even though Japanese isn't structured at all like Latin, his Latin did help him because of his understanding of grammar and how a language works. So I was wrong, and he was correct to take the class he wanted to. All that is to say that Latin provides a foundation for any language study, so using Latin as your foundational foreign language first will help your students be successful in other languages. Latin is hard work, but it is also very structured, so taking the time to learn the Latin grammar is time well-spent - for many reasons.

Tanya

[pickandgrin]

Tanya,
I didn't know this twist in your son's story. How fun to know!