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    OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

    Hello friends. I am having a few problems. (nothing new there, lol!) I was wondering if I could get some objective input on the small Latin and music tutorial I help to organize? I am wondering if I should continue organizing it next year, or just stop. I’ll post this under the “Starting a Highlands Latin School” heading, in case it should be there?

    I’ll give you some background. Our group has 6 families. Our Latin teacher starts our evening giving some historical/liturgical perspectives to the kids. These short talks are gold. We also have a Liturgy/Kodaly Solfege class, with a children's schola component. The music teacher is very strict and old-school with high expectations for the kids and some communication difficulties- that has perhaps driven some people away. The classes are taught by professionals in their field with masters degrees, it is high quality instruction, and offered on a volunteer basis! We don't charge much- just enough to give the teachers an honorarium at year's end. We have two groups, loosely divided into older and younger kids. The younger group are around 9-11 years old and are currently doing FF. The older group are 12 through 16 and are finishing up SF. There are around 8 kids in each group. This is the only homeschool classical group that exists in the area, maybe for hundreds of miles- that I know of, and it is a seemingly unfamiliar concept to many homeschoolers where I live. It is not like in the US, where classical education is considered normal or perhaps even preferable in homeschool circles, because there are classical schools, universities, and conferences. Here, there is no such thing.

    To date, I have really pushed (sometimes shoved a bit too hard) for our group to learn Latin the Memoria way. After researching (I could do with more) I have come to believe in the grammar method of instruction. I have handed out copies of the "Classical Teacher" to all, and I have forwarded various articles supporting the grammar paradigm. But I am a poor speaker, and do not get my ideas across well, even in simple conversation. I get nervous. Most of the others in the group are just not sold on it for reasons of their own. Fair enough. I have been unsuccessful in helping them to see that classical education is for everyone, not just a few academics. They have patiently forborne with me. They have given it three years, the older kids are ready (ish) to move into Third Form, and the younger group is ready (ish) to move into Second Form. But my fellow moms seem ready to throw in the towel on grammar based Latin, maybe even all Latin. I have not been able to help them see the beauty of it, because it is hard to see it in action when it is "just us" doing it and no one else. It is hard to embrace classical education and MP as the "hardcore version" as it it is sometimes seen. Especially when there are no classical schools and conferences, no local movement- it makes it hard to understand the why.

    I think the issue is that it requires such long-term perseverance, it is admittedly dry for young kids, and they are having problems seeing the context of the forms and the vocabulary they are memorizing. Lack of context is admittedly a weakness in what we are doing, drilling the forms. But there are weaknesses in every approach to learning. This is the best one, with fewest weaknesses. I am convinced of that. I guess that over the long haul it is also becoming hard for them to continue to commit, some at great sacrifice, driving long distances- not knowing where this will take their kids. I can see that it might be hard to do the Latin sequence out of the context of the whole MP curriculum. You would have to be *really* sold on Latin. I also have to add, that the moms have been swayed by talking to a Latinist online who told point blank that MP’s approach does not work, and that he knows of no other translators who have done MP/Henle. (how many Latin translators can one person know?) I don’t think the person truly knows MP, or how it works, just made a judgement based on very limited info- however, the damage has been done. Also, with French immersion being so popular in Canada, all one has to do is mention the word immersion and everyone practically yells "Huzzah!" in one voice. So now I feel like at first, I was just forcing the "Latin issue," and now I am forcing the "MP Latin Issue" and I am almost ready to capitulate and let the group go ahead and move to something different. I think it would be the death knell of the group, because perseverance really does pay off, and quitting before you get there never does- but maybe, under the circumstances so be it? Different strokes? Horse, water, and all that? I guess I would let the teacher and the other moms decide together what they would like to do, and just stop insisting on what starts to feel like "my way." (Even though in my heart I do feel it is what is best for all the kids, not just mine- but if I am the only one who really wants to do it, then I feel like I kind of dragged everyone into taking part in something they didn't really want to do, kwim?)

    I also think I may in conscience be able to give the reins over to someone else at this point, because choosing and using another curriculum would just not be something I want to do, nor would I have any expertise or ability or passion to promote and organize immersion-based Latin study. I myself use it mostly to teach grammar, and then for all the side benefits-that is my approach, as MP's. I guess I am a die-hard MP mom at this point. I also don't know how I would manage to do two Latin curriculae in my own home- for ourselves, we'll not give up the MP Latin sequence, having seen too much good fruit from our studies. So my kids would continue doing Memoria's Latin sequence, but would probably just attend these (potential) classes more to support and to stay a part of the group. That is how some families have chosen to use the tutorial, it seems, anyway- so maybe it makes sense to just use an easier/"more fun" Latin and let people get together and kind of dabble and have fun with translation once a week without much homework? But then- at that point, with no "steps to Parnassus" and no yearly progression towards the goal of translating texts-- well, that is when I start seriously asking: "why Latin" for younger kids? In that case, I really do think it would make more sense for them to skip Latin until university or at least high school, and choose another subject or language to focus on. But then, if we do that, it's a totally different group, and not one that I'm really qualified to organize anymore, I don't think.

    I am feeling so very discouraged, because I had a vision for this, I thought we'd have a beautiful children's schola-all these kids can really sing- but no one is able to commit to singing Masses, so they end up just singing for themselves in class. I thought people would start to see the fruit of MP and classical education as our family has, and jump on board and get excited, as happened with us. And I thought it would grow, not shrink- We started as 11 families, but slowly dropped off each year, due to age group limitations, travel problems, the strictness of the music teacher, and amount of homework commitment, Latin is too hard, too weird, etc. Being in a group like this is a big sacrifice and a commitment of time and energy for young moms with a lot of kids and a lot on their plates. What I am wondering is if it is worth it to keep going with this?

    Sorry this has been so long. I guess I am wondering if there might still be a way for this non-leader (I am a leader without any followers? ) to help people to "see the light." Are there any convincing articles on grammar versus immersion-based instruction (besides the ones on here that I have sent and re-sent to the group over the years) that might help? I wonder if there is any way to move forward? Maybe there is something I just can't see. Or maybe I am trying to beat a dead horse and everyone would be greatly relieved if I would just stop and let it die. I thought of having a conference, but would have to finance it myself most likely, there are no classical speakers or leaders living anywhere near here- and I do not have the funds. I thought of asking some smart people I know to give a talk on it. But I am terrified of organizing such a thing. Should I "holler uncle," do you think?

    If you have managed to read this far, I thank you or your time and doubly send thanks in advance for any input you may be willing to leave for me!

    Maria
    Last edited by Girlnumber20; 04-10-2018, 07:37 PM. Reason: waaaaay too long and wordy
    DD 12, using 6M core with 7th Grade COTR
    DS 10, using 5M core

    #2
    Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

    Oh, Maria, I want to give you a hug. Your post made me so, so sad. Now, before I launch into this, I need to tell you that I'm not part of a co-op and I have never had a hand in either organizing or attending a Cottage School. Take my comments and questions with a hefty pinch of salt.

    Now, first, that music teacher. How did she become involved with this endeavor? Is she replaceable or even someone you can approach to discuss her interactions with the children? Does she have any experience teaching younger children or is she just ("just" - ha!) an accomplished vocalist herself? And are the children unruly during the lessons or is she just terse by nature?
    If the group of parents you're dealing with are already not fully on board with classical education, this lady is going to drive home the point that classical educators are stodgy, inflexible killjoys who sometimes wear tweed. *weary laugh*

    Second, it is very difficult to sell this education (okay, in our house it's really a lifestyle) to people who aren't looking to buy. That is, we still face criticism from well-meaning (?) family and we've actually had to walk away from friends who were overly critical of the "abuse" in the form of recitation and Latin and church services (gasp!) that we forced our children into. I can't imagine taking those same people and trying to convince them to pay for the privilege of "abusing" children in this way. (I just cringe when I use that word to describe this wonderful education in which my children are immersed.)

    Maria, are you close to any of the families in this group? If so, I wonder if it might be helpful to have a heart-to-heart with one or two of them and maybe start a parents' group reading through Hirsch or Simmons so that parents can really understand better the trajectory of a classical education and really begin to want these things for their children. Or, maybe they'll all run for the hills at the first mention of repetition...either way, you'll have parents who are either hot or cold and not this sort of lukewarm I'm-here-because-we-have-nothing-else-to-do kind of attitude.

    Is this the only outlet your kids have for social activities? If you were to hand over the reins, I think we both know that the tutorial will go the way of the dodo in favor of child-led activities (given what you've said). If this is the case, are you okay being an island out there? Is it enough to have online pals to cheer you on and for your kids to be immersed in daily (or weekly - not sure of your schedule) mass and pen pals and the occasional visit with like-minded friends?

    It is very difficult to feel like the Last Man Standing. We have tried little groups here and there and both my kids and I are always disappointed. We gave this up a couple of years ago. There is an idea that all homeschoolers share things in common but that's as dangerous as painting all public school students with the same broad brush. Even within the realm of CE, there are big differences. Not everybody is on board with CE and even those who are sometimes do it for very different reasons. (I've had a few people approach and ask me how to get the same results we're seeing because they want their kids to get into an Ivy League school. They want to buy MP materials and have their kids "do the workbooks" after school to give them an edge. Ack!)

    I will leave the nuts and bolts to the experts who have experience running co-ops and cottage schools. I will pray for you. May God give you the wisdom and discernment to be at peace with whatever decision you make. <3
    Mary

    DD14 - 9th core + CLRC Ancient Greek I & Latin IV
    DS12 - 7th core + Novare Earth Science + CLRC HS Latin I
    DD8 - SC level 2

    Comment


      #3
      Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

      Thank you so much for your kind words Mary! The music teacher is friend of mine. She loves doing this. It would break her heart (and probably our friendship) if we no longer needed her generous contribution. Her heart is really good. She loves learning and she is one of the few professionals who believes in and supports CE. Also, most of the participants in this group besides us, attend Roman Catholic Mass, and she is teaching them the liturgy, parts of vespers, and the chants which have sadly fallen into disuse in the RC church. All while teaching them how to read music. It is actually pretty cool in a disorganized kind of way. (We take part in those classes too, out of interest- we used to attend RC church but eventually had our kids confirmed into Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church- but I still love Gregorian chant and it makes sense to try to support and build up the church that the most families attend. How's *that* for confusing?) Also, strangely, she kind of keeps the thing plugging along by her sheer force of will and energy. No tweed there. Crazy hair, flowery scarves, and thick accent... and high expectations.

      i am intimidated by her, by the Latin teacher, and by most of the other moms, if the truth be told. I put on a good act though!
      Last edited by Girlnumber20; 04-10-2018, 08:04 PM.
      DD 12, using 6M core with 7th Grade COTR
      DS 10, using 5M core

      Comment


        #4
        Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

        I don’t have any advice for you Maria, but I live in a country where classical education is either unheard of or is Charlotte Mason style...and I am feeling for you reading your post. We did PL with another family last year but it didn’t work out...they did some revision during the week about 2-3 times the whole year...otherwise it was just what we did in lesson time. I was quite frustrated towards the end and used my ‘I’m very pregnant’ drawcard to cut it 6 weeks short. Another family bought a lot of MP (after hearing me talk about it) - cores for 3 kids...but it was too much writing for them and I bought from her whatever I could at the end of last year, even the curriculum guide for grade 3. It’s hard when you want to have a shared learning experience for your children and other mums to walk beside in this that you can actually have a coffee with. I’m amazed at what you have managed to do...as a person who is not a natural leader myself I know that it must have taken a huge huge amount of effort. May God give you wisdom as you figure out the path ahead.
        Sarah

        Aussies from Sydney, Australia
        Miriam 9yo Latina Christiana, R&S4, IEW Phonetic Zoo, IEW Grammar
        Jonny 7yo (Special Needs) SC1 Phonics, R&S1
        Elissa (almost) 4yo K phonics, R&S Preschool books

        Together this term (in Circle Time) we are doing Bible time with SC1 Story Bible and our own memorisation/songs, Myself and Others 2, Homer Price, Greek Myths, IEW Poetry Memorisation, speech therapy, The Body Book, Artventure and picture books from SCB/SC1 etc.

        Thomas 17 months

        Comment


          #5
          Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

          Hi Maria,

          At this point, I would drop it. Maybe the music and Latin teachers could continue tutoring just your children?
          Jennifer
          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

          DS16
          MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
          MPOA: High School Comp. II
          HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

          DS15
          MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
          MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
          HSC: Modern European History

          DS12
          7M with:
          Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

          DS11
          SC Level 4

          DD9
          3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

          DD7/8
          Still in SC Level 2

          DD 4/5
          SC Level C

          Comment


            #6
            Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

            Maria,

            First off a hug....this sounds like a tough situation. I didn't want to reply last night without time to think a bit first.

            A couple of points that come to mind. If you are the one leading this thing, then you offer what works for your family and if others want it then they will stick with it. If they want something else then they will drop out. It sounds like your music teacher is very good, and I wouldn't change because she has high expectations for the kids. You mention all the other moms want an immersion Latin program, but is it really all the moms or just a few more vocal, pushy types that tend to take over? One major logistical concern would be whether your Latin teacher is capable of executing an immersion Latin program. It isn't something just anyone can pick up and teach. That is one major advantage to the products MP offers and a major reason we use MP. If the Latin teacher has no experience with the method, that ends the discussion.

            As an outsider, is it possible that the moms with older kids aren't wanting to give up, but maybe don't see that their children are ever going to get to some translation at the pace they are on? Yes they can keep going after high school, but it isn't a quitter mentality to want to see some results sooner. The form series is great for younger kids, but it is intentionally slow. Its goal is not translation right away, but to use Latin early on to help teach English grammar. Those older kids may already have those skills. Maybe you could move those older kids through Henle next year so they could get to some translation? I haven't used it, but the Lingua Biblica is an easier translation program that I have heard good things about.

            A conference would be hard to schedule, but since your group is Catholic maybe you could take a field trip to attend a Traditional Latin Mass and the priest could talk to the kids afterwards about the benefits of Latin and the choir director could talk a bit about chant. A couple schools around us have their Latin club come to our Mass or give extra credit in Latin class for coming.

            Once again, prayers and hugs as you discern what to do.
            Dorinda

            For 2019-2020
            DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
            DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
            DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
            DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

            Comment


              #7
              Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

              Maria,

              Everything you are thinking about education is correct. You have it all worked out, and you need to hold on to that. It is difficult to be alone in your community, but you aren't really alone. We are standing beside you, with the same vision and desire for all students to be truly educated - which is classical education. You have inundated your friends with articles and information about classical education, but I wonder if they would come watch some of our conference videos with you. That's the only thing I can think of that you haven't tried.

              I admire you for trusting your instincts about education. You have educated yourself, just like Cheryl Lowe did, and you are standing firm for your children. Don't back down from that, even if your tutorial has to leave your hands. I know it's lonely sticking to your ideals, but you are doing this for your children, and you have attempted to do it for other children, which is noteworthy. Sometimes, I would have students in class at HLS whose parents hadn't really bought into classical education. They were just there because our test scores are high. I could always predict that they wouldn't stay. You really have to understand and embrace the greatness of classical education. And you can't force others to do that.

              But know that we are here for you, climbing that mountain together - Memoria Press staff and all these wonderful forum peeps. We are all on a mission together - wherever we live. If you come to Sodalitas, it will be like 2 days of a group hug that will send you back home with warmth in your heart and a rejuvenated will to persevere and conquer!

              Tanya

              Comment


                #8
                Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                Originally posted by tanya View Post
                Maria,

                Everything you are thinking about education is correct. You have it all worked out, and you need to hold on to that. It is difficult to be alone in your community, but you aren't really alone. We are standing beside you, with the same vision and desire for all students to be truly educated - which is classical education. You have inundated your friends with articles and information about classical education, but I wonder if they would come watch some of our conference videos with you. That's the only thing I can think of that you haven't tried.

                I admire you for trusting your instincts about education. You have educated yourself, just like Cheryl Lowe did, and you are standing firm for your children. Don't back down from that, even if your tutorial has to leave your hands. I know it's lonely sticking to your ideals, but you are doing this for your children, and you have attempted to do it for other children, which is noteworthy. Sometimes, I would have students in class at HLS whose parents hadn't really bought into classical education. They were just there because our test scores are high. I could always predict that they wouldn't stay. You really have to understand and embrace the greatness of classical education. And you can't force others to do that.

                But know that we are here for you, climbing that mountain together - Memoria Press staff and all these wonderful forum peeps. We are all on a mission together - wherever we live. If you come to Sodalitas, it will be like 2 days of a group hug that will send you back home with warmth in your heart and a rejuvenated will to persevere and conquer!

                Tanya
                Since Maria is on the far side of Canada...does anyone want to join me in helping sponsor her trip to SG? I know we couldn’t cover it all, but I’m sure we could offset it a bit!
                Jennifer
                Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                DS16
                MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
                MPOA: High School Comp. II
                HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

                DS15
                MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
                MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
                HSC: Modern European History

                DS12
                7M with:
                Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

                DS11
                SC Level 4

                DD9
                3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

                DD7/8
                Still in SC Level 2

                DD 4/5
                SC Level C

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                  Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                  Since Maria is on the far side of Canada...does anyone want to join me in helping sponsor her trip to SG? I know we couldn’t cover it all, but I’m sure we could offset it a bit!
                  Can you set up a Go Fund Me?
                  I would contribute. Many hands make light work!
                  Festina lentē,
                  Jessica P

                  SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
                  @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
                  S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
                  D · 8th
                  D · 5th
                  S · 2nd

                  Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                    Hi Maria,

                    Please allow me to cut to the chase:

                    1. Natural vs. grammar method. Having spent several years in Canada, I understand why the prevailing winds are towards an immersion approach. However, if you challenged those around you, most would probably say that after years of being in an "immersion" French course, they don't know much more than their numbers and colors. At least that was the experience people had in Ontario. As AMMom2mthj pointed out, unless you have a very skilled teacher, there is no way to do an immersion course. I'm not necessarily advocating hitting your friends over the head with even more articles, but the best article I ever read on this dichotomy was published in The Classical World in 2013: https://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rfburge...Latin_2013.pdf. We ran this article (though significantly shortened) in two pieces: https://www.memoriapress.com/article...eaching-latin/ and https://www.memoriapress.com/article...latin-part-ii/.

                    2. Third Form is when they start translating full paragraph and multiple paragraph exercise texts (I believe that starts in Lesson 17). They will then translate a simplified version of St. Patrick's autobiography in the review lessons of Fourth Form. If you can convince the older students to hang on one more year, they might start to see some of the work start to "pay off."

                    3. With regards to a "Latinist's" opinion, the best praise I ever received for the Form Series was from a traditional sedevacantist priest (sorry everyone for the specific Catholic lingo!). As you probably can guess, his liturgy was in Latin--so understanding and usage was very important to him as he prayed in Latin. He had searched high and low for a Latin program for his seminarians and he said hands down the Form Series was the best out there. To me this carries more weight (due to him using Latin in his daily life) than an online "Latinist." And by the way, the Form Series hasn't been around long enough for classicists to have been raised on it (which is generally their criteria for what program "works").

                    Having said all of this, maybe it is time to cry uncle. Odysseus traveled for ten years to get home, and on the way all of his companions were lost. We hope our classical journey will be closer to Aeneas' than Odysseus' (because some of Aeneas' companions made it to Latium), but we can't drag everyone with us. May you be like Aeneas, knowing when to give your companions rest, and when to sail on; when to pause and have games, and when to battle.

                    Paul
                    Paul Schaeffer
                    --
                    Director, Schools Division
                    Memoria Press

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                      Originally posted by pschaeffer View Post
                      Hi Maria,

                      Please allow me to cut to the chase:

                      1. Natural vs. grammar method. Having spent several years in Canada, I understand why the prevailing winds are towards an immersion approach. However, if you challenged those around you, most would probably say that after years of being in an "immersion" French course, they don't know much more than their numbers and colors. At least that was the experience people had in Ontario. As AMMom2mthj pointed out, unless you have a very skilled teacher, there is no way to do an immersion course. I'm not necessarily advocating hitting your friends over the head with even more articles, but the best article I ever read on this dichotomy was published in The Classical World in 2013: https://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~rfburge...Latin_2013.pdf. We ran this article (though significantly shortened) in two pieces: https://www.memoriapress.com/article...eaching-latin/ and https://www.memoriapress.com/article...latin-part-ii/.

                      2. Third Form is when they start translating full paragraph and multiple paragraph exercise texts (I believe that starts in Lesson 17). They will then translate a simplified version of St. Patrick's autobiography in the review lessons of Fourth Form. If you can convince the older students to hang on one more year, they might start to see some of the work start to "pay off."

                      3. With regards to a "Latinist's" opinion, the best praise I ever received for the Form Series was from a traditional sedevacantist priest (sorry everyone for the specific Catholic lingo!). As you probably can guess, his liturgy was in Latin--so understanding and usage was very important to him as he prayed in Latin. He had searched high and low for a Latin program for his seminarians and he said hands down the Form Series was the best out there. To me this carries more weight (due to him using Latin in his daily life) than an online "Latinist." And by the way, the Form Series hasn't been around long enough for classicists to have been raised on it (which is generally their criteria for what program "works").

                      Having said all of this, maybe it is time to cry uncle. Odysseus traveled for ten years to get home, and on the way all of his companions were lost. We hope our classical journey will be closer to Aeneas' than Odysseus' (because some of Aeneas' companions made it to Latium), but we can't drag everyone with us. May you be like Aeneas, knowing when to give your companions rest, and when to sail on; when to pause and have games, and when to battle.

                      Paul
                      I know a newly minted 12 year old who will be OVER THE MOON when I tell her this. Saint Patrick is a treasured favorite in our home.

                      I'm writing this comment about Aeneas in my binder. It's ranking right up there with Serviam.


                      Originally posted by tanya View Post
                      Maria,

                      Everything you are thinking about education is correct. You have it all worked out, and you need to hold on to that. It is difficult to be alone in your community, but you aren't really alone. We are standing beside you, with the same vision and desire for all students to be truly educated - which is classical education. You have inundated your friends with articles and information about classical education, but I wonder if they would come watch some of our conference videos with you. That's the only thing I can think of that you haven't tried.

                      I admire you for trusting your instincts about education. You have educated yourself, just like Cheryl Lowe did, and you are standing firm for your children. Don't back down from that, even if your tutorial has to leave your hands. I know it's lonely sticking to your ideals, but you are doing this for your children, and you have attempted to do it for other children, which is noteworthy. Sometimes, I would have students in class at HLS whose parents hadn't really bought into classical education. They were just there because our test scores are high. I could always predict that they wouldn't stay. You really have to understand and embrace the greatness of classical education. And you can't force others to do that.

                      But know that we are here for you, climbing that mountain together - Memoria Press staff and all these wonderful forum peeps. We are all on a mission together - wherever we live. If you come to Sodalitas, it will be like 2 days of a group hug that will send you back home with warmth in your heart and a rejuvenated will to persevere and conquer!

                      Tanya

                      This --- is worthy of printing out and putting in a prominent place -- your computer, your desk, your homeschool binder. There are SO MANY reasons why I love MP, but it's the community that makes a serious difference.
                      Plans for 2019-20

                      DD1 - 24 - College Grad and rocking her own bakery business
                      DD2 - 13 - 8A Louisville HLS Cottage School and MPOA
                      DS3 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
                      DS4 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
                      DD5 - 7 - MP2, Louisville HLS Cottage School
                      DS6 - 5 - MP K

                      [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                        I'm so grateful for the kindness and understanding and excellent advice from all of you. What a help you all are. I have not been totally alone in this, I am very blessed to have an excellent and very wise friend and confidant who lives here- she is the one I learned about Memoria from, got me started, and who has supported me in learning how to use it, and in many other ways as well. I would mention her name but I am not sure if she is ok with it. Honestly if it were not for her the group wouldn't exist- i never would have been able to think of it- even though she herself is not able to take part in it since the classes don't fit with her schedule.

                        I'm touched and honored that Jennifer and Jessica would consider helping me come to Sodalitas. Unfortunately, that is not an option for me at this time, not just because of money, but mainly because of some personal family issues that I have to deal with that make additional travel too difficult. But thank you for even thinking of it- how very generous.<3

                        I wanted also to clarify that these moms are not at all pushy, really they are lovely, charitable, a bit indecisive- and most are really easy-going about stuff. But this just makes me feel worse, like I am shoving really really mean grammar-based kale down the throats of a bunch of really sweet people who are just too kind to say loudly, "stop it." But I am not sure of that- it is not like they have to sign up for the tutorial, of course, but in a strange way I have sort of discovered that when you put things on offer here, people almost seem to have a sense of obligation. It is like a cultural thing, I think maybe, a specifically Canadian thing. Super polite. For example- if you forward a notice that something is going on, just to share the information, you'll get back a bunch of apologies from people who can't make it to the thing you forwarded. Even if you aren't involved in the planning, are just sharing the info. So this kind of complicated the situation. People who left the group were very apologetic about it, now I wonder if the ones who stuck around just did it to be polite!

                        Thank you for the links Paul, the beautiful words of encouragement and advice- and Tanya for the advice and wisdom and kindness from MP staff- gives me some perspective and some food for thought from your end as authorities, that is hugely helpful in figuring it out..I'm feeling so much less alone. I'll let you know how it goes. The teacher would be able to do immersion, he is fluent in Latin, knows Greek as well, prefers Grammar-based but will do what the parents want and ultimately what I decide. But he wouldn't be able to do it on less than one hour a week, which is all people really want.. As for the online Latinist, he is a translator, but as was pointed out, the Forms and the entire sequence have not been around long enough to be producing translators yet, so really his comment made no sense. But I have noticed that all it takes is for a person who is an authority to say one negative thing, and all the cards come tumbling down. Some of these online chats are so destructive as people try to show "what they know" rather than figure out what people they are talking to need. Social media can be a force for bad at times.

                        I'll be re-reading these responses, pondering- and thank you, each of you- for the advice and prayers and support about this. <3
                        Last edited by Girlnumber20; 04-11-2018, 09:37 AM. Reason: adding stuff
                        DD 12, using 6M core with 7th Grade COTR
                        DS 10, using 5M core

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                          #13
                          Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                          Hi Maria,

                          I have been following this thread this morning. I wanted to add a thought (paltry after so much good feedback already).

                          How about YOU? Have you "dropped the class"? Are you (basically) done with the energy that these class take to execute for you and your kids?

                          Way back in the day, my husband and I were in college together. As a chemist and a civil engineer, we had years of classes in common, which yes, we did take together. With so much shared academic history around our house, we developed a catch-all phrase called "dropping the class". This phrase means that, even if you could get an extension/re-do/do-over, you confess that you are actually mentally past that point. Dropping the class is code words for admitting that you have mentally moved in a different direction, even if you can't execute "the drop" immediately.

                          In some ways, as you describe the situation, I see that you can up your energy toward the Herculean effort to make all parties happy, with compromises here and there. In other ways, I see that you might be seeing some writing on the wall, that your energies might best be used toward that true classical education that you seek for your children, especially with the cheering and support from your MP forum friends.

                          So, I do think you are back to examining your heart. If you admit that you have essentially dropped the class, then you have your answer, even if you must now soothe and disentangle. Sometimes the practical approach is the best way to go when you do need to disentangle. By showing the tutors that only 1-3 families remain, the tutors might excuse themselves out of practicality.

                          Or, if all you need to do adjust toward some of the above suggestions, then you have your answer.... for one more year, at least. This time next year, you will then reevaluate, as you are doing right now.



                          Jen, who has tremendous difficulty leaving homeschool groups because I secretly feel like I "owe" them something. Why is that?
                          DS, 26 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace), recently completed the design and execution of unhackable military software... in his spare time.

                          DS, 24 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                          DD, 21 yrs, Senior in Education at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC

                          DS, 11 yrs, 6M: complete!

                          All homeschooled.

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                            #14
                            Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                            Jen,

                            Since you are extremely polite about leaving groups, maybe you should now be "Jen (should be) in Canada." Actually, I love these really polite countries. I haven't been to Canada, but I visited Amsterdam (stopover on the way to Germany), and those were the nicest people. I've never forgotten them. I suppose it could go too far and cause issues, but it's like a breath of fresh air to me.

                            Tanya

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                              #15
                              Re: OT: Should I continue organizing Latin tutorial next year?

                              Maria,
                              Hugs to you, and prayers for discernment coming your way!

                              A couple things struck me here as well - what someone said about taking it a year at a time - and also, not worrying if an effort you made is a “forever” thing or not. Two years ago I made the decision to start a cottage school, and we had exactly ONE year. One after the other, three of the key families moved - including us! And as it turned out, my Latin teacher was blessed with another miracle pregnancy - so she would have been unavailable this year anyway.

                              At the time, it was really hard to understand the purpose of starting, and then stopping so suddenly. But seeing how everyone’s lives have changed, it makes a bit more sense now.

                              You have had a really good thing going, which could continue and continue being good. But even if you decide to move on, that can mean other good things that you don’t know of right now.

                              AMDG,
                              Sarah
                              Last edited by KF2000; 04-11-2018, 10:29 AM.
                              2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
                              DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
                              DS, 16
                              DD, 14
                              DD, 12
                              DD, 10
                              DD, 7.5
                              DD, 5.5
                              +DS+
                              DS, 18 months

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