Traditional Spelling questions

[Meadowlark]

If you use the traditional spelling, how do you like it? I'm coming from AAS and it's very teacher intensive. The spelling sample I looked at looks to be pretty teacher intensive as well. Can you tell me how you use it and what a typical lesson would look like? Are you seeing retention? Is it good stuff or should I stick with AAS?

[momgineer]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

I’ve used AAS all the way through all levels. I’m in level 5 with my next studentband I have a preschooler coming up. I love the look of Traditional Spelling and if it went all the way through 7th or 8th grade, I would probably use it for my little one. However, it stops at 2nd grade which means having to switch to something else for 3rd and up. I don’t like Spelling Workout. It’s just an old style spelling workbook very loosely organized phonetically. It doesn’t teach phonics to the level that TS or AAS does. But with a program like AAS, you really need to start with level 1. So my thought is why do TS for two years only to have to start at level 1 AAS later? I’ll just start with level 1 in 1st. Now, if MP decides to continue TS with intense phonics instruction past grade 2 and all the way through all the typical levels of spelling, then I’ll probably switch.

Edited to add: I don’t find AAS any more teacher intensive than any spelling program that is taught (as opposed to a totally hands off workbook approach). We spend about 5-15 minutes a day on Spelling. Not intensive at all. We stop the tiles around level 3 which speeds things up.

[Meadowlark]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

MP previously used Spelling Workout along with their phonics. This is what we started with. We loved it and so did both of my kids. It blended very well with the phonics instruction and both of my kids can spell very well. Traditional Spelling is fairly new and we just recently switched to it since it has come out. To me it has a similar feel to the Spelling Workout, but a thousand times better because it has that MP flavor to it. <3 I have not found it to be teacher intensive at all. Open, read and follow the directions, complete. HTH

Okay, what do you mean by a MP "flavor"? Being new, I'm not sure what that flavor might be. I'm familiar with AAS and that's about it. Trying to decide if this would be better.

[Meadowlark]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

I’ve used AAS all the way through all levels. I’m in level 5 with my next studentband I have a preschooler coming up. I love the look of Traditional Spelling and if it went all the way through 7th or 8th grade, I would probably use it for my little one. However, it stops at 2nd grade which means having to switch to something else for 3rd and up. I don’t like Spelling Workout. It’s just an old style spelling workbook very loosely organized phonetically. It doesn’t teach phonics to the level that TS or AAS does. But with a program like AAS, you really need to start with level 1. So my thought is why do TS for two years only to have to start at level 1 AAS later? I’ll just start with level 1 in 1st. Now, if MP decides to continue TS with intense phonics instruction past grade 2 and all the way through all the typical levels of spelling, then I’ll probably switch.

Edited to add: I don’t find AAS any more teacher intensive than any spelling program that is taught (as opposed to a totally hands off workbook approach). We spend about 5-15 minutes a day on Spelling. Not intensive at all. We stop the tiles around level 3 which speeds things up.

I see your point. I guess a plus of AAS would be that I could combine a few of my kids who are 12 months apart. Do you know if there are any plans for MP to continue with the TS? Just curious. Doing AAR and AAS together got a little redundant for us so I thought I'd keep AAR and maybe try the TS, but now I'm not sure. Like you, I'd rather not switch especially if the methodology is different.

[Fwm23]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

I am using AAR (levels 2 and 3 currently) and AAS (level 2 now). I don't find it redundant and have not switched to traditional spelling for the same reasons as above. I have used some first start reading and do like it. Could you do first start reading and the phonics for reading activities in the 1st and 2nd grade reading instead of AAR and stick with AAS ? Just another idea...

[Michelle T]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Greetings all. I thought I’d chime in here about time spent on spelling. Several years ago when we were using words teachers had pulled from the literature for Spelling, and used SRA to teach the Phonics, the program was effective for teachers and for some home schoolers who had an understanding of Phonics but what was lacking was a set pathway for introduction of phonograms to be sure we covered all that was needed before the Grammar stage. We were still new to publishing our program and our program is what the teachers were doing in class. Those were the early years. We were effective but still developing. Once we had the FSR series complete, maybe even a little before that, we recognized the need for a systematic approach to introduce spelling phonograms. That is when Cheryl began researching and chose SWO but we had to add the extra phonics work.

We understood Spelling was the culmination of phonics instruction. It was where students showed mastery. We also recognized that the brief, write-your-words -complete-your-workbook-pages method for teaching Spelling was not enough. Spelling should include a study of the Phonetic make up of each list word and this demanded more time and effort on both the speller and the teacher. Even natural spellers who flourish with just writing the words a couple of times, benefit in the long run, especially as list words become multisyllabic and advanced, if the have working knowledge of phonics. They are going to need to know this to spell a word of which they have no visual memory. So there were some transition years where we switched from list words and all the workbook pages of SRA Phonics to interactive lessons with the teacher using Classical Phonics words and list words as the base. Even then, wheels were turning in Cheryl’s mind and development of the perfect, Phonics-based spelling program was born.

Why am I telling all this here? Because it is important to understand how much time should be given to spelling. It should actually be more time than the Phonics lessons for reading. TS is teacher intensive by design. That is why it is effective. Traditional Spelling lessons should take around 30 minutes a day for a home school setting. That includes the interactive lessons, student writing and corrections. During teacher training, I have told classroom teachers to expect 45 to 50 minutes for spelling. However for the first several lessons, when the colorful words and dictation are still new , it will take a little longer. This program is definitely not a hands-off approach. That is part of why it works!

I don’t want anyone to purchase Traditional Spelling without knowing that the investment of time would be a little bit more than with other programs. If you have been using the Phonics Guide for Reading and Spelling with SWO, it takes about the same amount of time as TS. IMHO the program is the best I’ve seen.

Blessings,
Michelle T

[LauraP]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Would it be helpful and appropriate to begin Traditional Spelling with a student who is completing Memoria's 2nd grade curriculum, having not followed along with spelling lessons along the way? Phonics instruction and understanding, leading to fluent reading, was challenging for my daughter. As a result we focused on reading and didn't emphasize spelling. She has become a more fluent reader and eager writer and is now interested, and ready, for spelling instruction. I'm wondering where to start, especially in hopes of beginning "easily" to encourage confidence.

[Meadowlark]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Greetings all. I thought I’d chime in here about time spent on spelling. Several years ago when we were using words teachers had pulled from the literature for Spelling, and used SRA to teach the Phonics, the program was effective for teachers and for some home schoolers who had an understanding of Phonics but what was lacking was a set pathway for introduction of phonograms to be sure we covered all that was needed before the Grammar stage. We were still new to publishing our program and our program is what the teachers were doing in class. Those were the early years. We were effective but still developing. Once we had the FSR series complete, maybe even a little before that, we recognized the need for a systematic approach to introduce spelling phonograms. That is when Cheryl began researching and chose SWO but we had to add the extra phonics work.

We understood Spelling was the culmination of phonics instruction. It was where students showed mastery. We also recognized that the brief, write-your-words -complete-your-workbook-pages method for teaching Spelling was not enough. Spelling should include a study of the Phonetic make up of each list word and this demanded more time and effort on both the speller and the teacher. Even natural spellers who flourish with just writing the words a couple of times, benefit in the long run, especially as list words become multisyllabic and advanced, if the have working knowledge of phonics. They are going to need to know this to spell a word of which they have no visual memory. So there were some transition years where we switched from list words and all the workbook pages of SRA Phonics to interactive lessons with the teacher using Classical Phonics words and list words as the base. Even then, wheels were turning in Cheryl’s mind and development of the perfect, Phonics-based spelling program was born.

Why am I telling all this here? Because it is important to understand how much time should be given to spelling. It should actually be more time than the Phonics lessons for reading. TS is teacher intensive by design. That is why it is effective. Traditional Spelling lessons should take around 30 minutes a day for a home school setting. That includes the interactive lessons, student writing and corrections. During teacher training, I have told classroom teachers to expect 45 to 50 minutes for spelling. However for the first several lessons, when the colorful words and dictation are still new , it will take a little longer. This program is definitely not a hands-off approach. That is part of why it works!

I don’t want anyone to purchase Traditional Spelling without knowing that the investment of time would be a little bit more than with other programs. If you have been using the Phonics Guide for Reading and Spelling with SWO, it takes about the same amount of time as TS. IMHO the program is the best I’ve seen.

Blessings,
Michelle T

Yes, thank you for this. My question now is: are you saying that I'd have to do 1.5 hours of spelling per day? I will be homeschooling 3 kids in K, 1st, and 2nd. That just seems like a long time to spend on spelling. Is combining ever recommended? They are in public school this year and I know that the spelling instruction is very poor. I think even my almost 2nd grader would benefit from going back to the beginning. That was the draw to AAS honestly-that I could start 2 of them way back at the beginning and go from there. Or, is it strongly recommended to stay at grade level? And, the question everyone wants to know is-are you planning to extend TS? Some of us aren't too keen on switching over after doing TS for a few years. Any idea?

[Michelle T]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

The kindergarten student will not have spelling. The FSR lessons will include dictation of words in which they can hear the sounds (CVC words) and of sight words that they read them copy.

You could certainly start both in Level 1, especially if you are concerned they may have gaps in the mastery of phonics. I would recommend that level to anyone who has a speller in 1st or 2nd grade that would benefit from a year focused on building a solid foundation

You will find this is time well spent. When there is a systematic focus on phonics with spelling, reading improves as well because the students begin to notice the Phonetic chunks within the words they are decoding!

Blessings,

Michelle T

[howiecram]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Yes, thank you for this. My question now is: are you saying that I'd have to do 1.5 hours of spelling per day? I will be homeschooling 3 kids in K, 1st, and 2nd. That just seems like a long time to spend on spelling. Is combining ever recommended? They are in public school this year and I know that the spelling instruction is very poor. I think even my almost 2nd grader would benefit from going back to the beginning. That was the draw to AAS honestly-that I could start 2 of them way back at the beginning and go from there. Or, is it strongly recommended to stay at grade level? And, the question everyone wants to know is-are you planning to extend TS? Some of us aren't too keen on switching over after doing TS for a few years. Any idea?

K has “spelling” built into First Start Reading. I would definitely have your 1st and 2nd graders do the Traditional Spelling together! (Based on your “poor phonics instruction” comment above. )

It is really hard to tell from only 1 week of words on the sample page, but I just viewed the materials at a homeschool convention and they get harder very quickly! My child has finished AAS 2, and Traditional Spelling 11 will be too hard! So, she will do it with her 1st grade brother (as scheduled in Simply Classical 4). AAS takes 15-20 min per kid, so this will actually SAVE me time!

Also, keep in mind AAR is also very time intensive. The literature guides have phonics built in them and it does not take 20 min every day. Lastly, with AAR, it suggests 20 min literature additional to your lessons...so that is 40 min.

I was on the fence, since I too own all 4 levels of AAR. My oldest needed it due to learning issues. I really like AAR, but it is tooo much for an average learner. I started using it with my second child and quickly moved over to First Start Reading. I will keep the student books for extra practice, or to change things up, but plan declutter the other things. I also like the word cards, so I will keep them. (Only because I own them, I would not run out and buy them!)

P.s. I did do Storytime treasures AnD AAR with my oldest....it can work, but again time intensive.

[Mom2mthj]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Yes, thank you for this. My question now is: are you saying that I'd have to do 1.5 hours of spelling per day? I will be homeschooling 3 kids in K, 1st, and 2nd. That just seems like a long time to spend on spelling. Is combining ever recommended? They are in public school this year and I know that the spelling instruction is very poor. I think even my almost 2nd grader would benefit from going back to the beginning. That was the draw to AAS honestly-that I could start 2 of them way back at the beginning and go from there. Or, is it strongly recommended to stay at grade level? And, the question everyone wants to know is-are you planning to extend TS? Some of us aren't too keen on switching over after doing TS for a few years. Any idea?

I have been using AAS for awhile now. I have never gone all the way through, but currently my fourth grader is in book four. I found AAS back when my seventh grader was in first and were in those "early days" of the core that Michelle mentioned. I was NOT one of those homeschoolers who could make it work so the phonics instruction in AAS was a lifesaver. The early cores especially have changed quite a lot since those days.

AAS has been easy to implement and I like the built in review and that it is not consumable. We also do it more by time and we do what we can in 15-20 minutes a day and usually continue through the summer. You could combine the older two for awhile, but one might be ready to move along more quickly. If you are thinking to start back at the beginning then I would assume that the same could be said of Traditional Spelling.

Good luck on your decision...having two great choices is nice and hard all at the same time.

[Meadowlark]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

K has “spelling” built into First Start Reading. I would definitely have your 1st and 2nd graders do the Traditional Spelling together! (Based on your “poor phonics instruction” comment above. )

It is really hard to tell from only 1 week of words on the sample page, but I just viewed the materials at a homeschool convention and they get harder very quickly! My child has finished AAS 2, and Traditional Spelling 11 will be too hard! So, she will do it with her 1st grade brother (as scheduled in Simply Classical 4). AAS takes 15-20 min per kid, so this will actually SAVE me time!

Also, keep in mind AAR is also very time intensive. The literature guides have phonics built in them and it does not take 20 min every day. Lastly, with AAR, it suggests 20 min literature additional to your lessons...so that is 40 min.

I was on the fence, since I too own all 4 levels of AAR. My oldest needed it due to learning issues. I really like AAR, but it is tooo much for an average learner. I started using it with my second child and quickly moved over to First Start Reading. I will keep the student books for extra practice, or to change things up, but plan declutter the other things. I also like the word cards, so I will keep them. (Only because I own them, I would not run out and buy them!)

P.s. I did do Storytime treasures AnD AAR with my oldest....it can work, but again time intensive.

Thanks for your input, especially since you are familiar with both programs. I know virtually nothing about First Start Reading...how does it compare to AAR? Would you really recommend switching-is it that good/better? I have to admit I've really liked AAR, but maybe it's because it's worked with 2 very different readers, who are both now very high testing 4th and 5th graders who LOVE to read. So, it has worked and worked very well. But, I do hear what you're saying in that it can be "too much". It is VERY incremental but we just flew through the lesson and got to the readers if my son already intuitively knew the rule. I guess I've never used anything else so I don't know how to compare. And of course, it would be hard to explain to my husband why AAR wouldn't work (and why I have to spend more $)....

What do you mean when you say the literature guides have spelling built into them?

[Michael]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

... are you planning to extend TS? Some of us aren't too keen on switching over after doing TS for a few years. Any idea?

Currently, our focus is on supporting the launch of the primary levels of Traditional Spelling (I and II) and evaluating any and all feedback. We certainly hope to continue the series, however! Until later levels are released, the transition from Traditional Spelling II to Spelling Workout D should be very smooth. (HLS students will be making this very transition.)

[Michael]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

What do you mean when you say the literature guides have spelling built into them?

There is explicit phonetic instruction included in the Teacher Guides for StoryTime Treasures, More StoryTime Treasures, and the five literature guides used in Second Grade: Animal Folk Tales of America, Prairie School, Little House in the Big Woods, The Courage of Sarah Noble, and Tales from Beatrix Potter. Here are some samples: StoryTime Treasures and Animal Folk Tales of America.

[Mom2mthj]

Re: Traditional Spelling questions

Thanks for your input, especially since you are familiar with both programs. I know virtually nothing about First Start Reading...how does it compare to AAR? Would you really recommend switching-is it that good/better? I have to admit I've really liked AAR, but maybe it's because it's worked with 2 very different readers, who are both now very high testing 4th and 5th graders who LOVE to read. So, it has worked and worked very well. But, I do hear what you're saying in that it can be "too much". It is VERY incremental but we just flew through the lesson and got to the readers if my son already intuitively knew the rule. I guess I've never used anything else so I don't know how to compare. And of course, it would be hard to explain to my husband why AAR wouldn't work (and why I have to spend more $)....

What do you mean when you say the literature guides have spelling built into them?

I have never used FSR since I have only ever started MP with 1st grade. I do know that it is 5 books and I believe the fifth book is now covered in first grade. I liked AAS from kid #2 so I purchased AAR3 for my kid #3 when he was still having issues with reading after going through both MP core 1 and core 2. He also went through before most of the bigger changes to those cores. Kid #4 has no issues and actually taught himself the basics of letter sounds and blending at about 3.5. I had planned to try FSR with him, but he was not ready for the writing involved in FSR. I purchased AAR1 and he loved cutting out and playing the games in the book, adores the ziggy games, and the sticker chart was very motivating. We went quickly through the lessons and don't do all the practice sheets. It is very relaxed and doesn't always look like school. I like that I don't have to come up with multi sensory options - a variety are already mixed in. He loves it and it has kept me from skipping stuff. FSR is appealing if your child is ready to write because it is clean and efficient....a hallmark of MP materials. We will use FSR next year for handwriting and a bit of review, but he is less than 10 lessons from the end of AAR2 and I predict he will be done with AAR3 by the time he starts K. We will probably do all 4 levels because he wants to finish all those sticker charts ;-)

Just remember on the money front you do need a new student book (unless you saved all the pieces) for at least two levels of AAR to compare to the content of FSR A-E which is probably a wash pricewise and the AAR readers are great for extra practice (especially level 1) because it is so hard to find books that don't throw in a bunch of sight words. I think you just have to decide which program is more appealing to you. The one mommy is comfortable with and enthusiastic about is the one that gets done.