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    Here are some helps for Chreia

    I've been teaching Chreia/Maxim to four 8th grade students at our mini-cottage school (both our families were late to classical education and/or full cores). We took a LONG time to get comfortable with this level so we just finished Lesson 4, but they now have a stronger understanding of what each paragraph is supposed to do/cover. Here are some points that helped us:

    The biggest problem was understanding the Cause, Converse and Analogy paragraphs. The examples in the TM often don't fit and it would throw me off which would then throw off the kids. After watching the DVD myself and more intently reading the sidebars in the TM, I had each student write some of the following in the cover of their books (I've modified/expanded it for further clarity here):

    The Cause Paragraph is a POSITIVE story of your own invention:
    Recognition = the truth of the saying in shortened form
    Reversal = how the subject will be REWARDED by heeding the truth of the saying [this fits the idea of reversal because it shows how heeding the saying will bring the agents up,or higher, from where they currently are]
    Suffering = what hard things have to be done, or what things need to be avoided, in order to heed this truth [this is a general reference]
    Agents = person/persons who are heeding the saying
    Action = the specific thing(s) they are doing/avoiding in order to heed the saying [i.e., ]how they heed the saying]
    Time/Place = general setting of the story but not necessarily included in the paragraph (to me, it can sound clunky)
    Manner = how the Action was done (-ly words work well here)
    Cause = WHY the Agents did the above named Action

    The Converse Paragraph is a NEGATIVE story of your own invention:
    Recognition = the truth of the saying in shortened form
    Reversal = how the subject will be PUNISHED by heeding the truth of the saying [this is a general reference to the punishments]
    Suffering = the SPECIFIC punishments and/or results of those punishments
    Agents = person/persons who are NOT heeding the saying
    Action = the specific actions/omissions through which they do not follow the saying
    Time/Place = general setting of the story but not necessarily included in the paragraph (to me, it can sound clunky)
    Manner = how the Action was done (-ly words work well here)
    Cause = WHY the Agents did the above named Action


    The Analogy Paragraph is a comparison between the outcome of heeding the truth of the saying and the outcome of another action; they are "dissimilar" in the sense that they would not ordinarily be compared despite the similarities between them. The comparison can be POSITIVE, NEGATIVE or BOTH.
    For example:
    Positive - we can compare the outcome of properly used authority with that of a properly used vehicle
    Negative - we can compare the outcome of improperly used authority with that of an improperly used vehicle
    Both - we can compare the outcome of properly used authority with that of a properly used vehicle and then contrast that with the outcome of the improper use of each.

    Please note that these are based on my personal understanding of the text/DVD/examples -- Ryan, Tanya, et al please correct where needed!
    Jennifer
    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

    Current

    DS19: MP grad; auto mechanic & business owner
    DS18: MP grad; college freshman
    DS16: MP except math
    DS14 & DD12: MP except history (CTP), science, and math
    DD11: SC4
    DD8: mix of MP K-2

    2023-2024 Plan
    DS17: Homeschool Connections and local MP Dante class
    DS15 & DD13: mix of MP, online providers using MP materials, and non-MP science
    DD11: MP/SC, online providers using MP materials
    DD8: mix of MP 1-3

    #2
    Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

    Jen,

    This has been very similar to how I have mentally adjusted the explanations to our actual experience with working through the lessons.

    The one piece I would explain just a bit differently is the Reversal. I would think of this component more generally as "the change that is taking place." If you remember from Fable, the reversal was usually that one character who was lofty/prideful was humbled, or a humble character was elevated. This understanding was not as precise when we got to Narrative because the stories are not so cut-and-dried. This is where we began to think of "reversal" as closer to a "change" taking place in the story for some character. This understanding holds its shape in Chreia/Maxim because it is what you are arguing for - the change that you want the action to do, or the change that is left undone if the action is not taken. From our experience, understanding it in this way has held up in the next couple of levels as well.

    But if Ryan comes back and explains it differently, we will adjust our thinking as well!

    AMDG,
    Sarah
    2020-2021
    16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
    DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
    DS, 17
    DD, 15
    DD, 13
    DD, 11
    DD, 9
    DD, 7
    +DS+
    DS, 2

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

      This is very, very helpful, Jen- thank you very much for posting what you use for your students. I will copy paste and print- it clarifies a lot.

      I was wondering about this:
      Reversal = how the subject will be PUNISHED by heeding the truth of the saying...

      Does this mean it should be shown that the subject will endure suffering or have to sacrifice as consequence of heeding the saying? Or, did you mean, "how the subject will be PUNISHED by *NOT* heeding the truth of the saying."

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

        Originally posted by Maria2 View Post
        This is very, very helpful, Jen- thank you very much for posting what you use for your students. I will copy paste and print- it clarifies a lot.

        I was wondering about this:
        Reversal = how the subject will be PUNISHED by heeding the truth of the saying...

        Does this mean it should be shown that the subject will endure suffering or have to sacrifice as consequence of heeding the saying? Or, did you mean, "how the subject will be PUNISHED by *NOT* heeding the truth of the saying."
        Punished by NOT — thank you for catching that!

        Sarah, thank you for that clarification on reversal — that does make more sense!
        Jennifer
        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

        Current

        DS19: MP grad; auto mechanic & business owner
        DS18: MP grad; college freshman
        DS16: MP except math
        DS14 & DD12: MP except history (CTP), science, and math
        DD11: SC4
        DD8: mix of MP K-2

        2023-2024 Plan
        DS17: Homeschool Connections and local MP Dante class
        DS15 & DD13: mix of MP, online providers using MP materials, and non-MP science
        DD11: MP/SC, online providers using MP materials
        DD8: mix of MP 1-3

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

          Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
          I've been teaching Chreia/Maxim to four 8th grade students at our mini-cottage school (both our families were late to classical education and/or full cores). We took a LONG time to get comfortable with this level so we just finished Lesson 4, but they now have a stronger understanding of what each paragraph is supposed to do/cover. Here are some points that helped us:

          The biggest problem was understanding the Cause, Converse and Analogy paragraphs. The examples in the TM often don't fit and it would throw me off which would then throw off the kids. After watching the DVD myself and more intently reading the sidebars in the TM, I had each student write some of the following in the cover of their books (I've modified/expanded it for further clarity here):

          The Cause Paragraph is a POSITIVE story of your own invention:
          Recognition = the truth of the saying in shortened form
          Reversal = how the subject will be REWARDED by heeding the truth of the saying [this fits the idea of reversal because it shows how heeding the saying will bring the agents up,or higher, from where they currently are]
          Suffering = what hard things have to be done, or what things need to be avoided, in order to heed this truth [this is a general reference]
          Agents = person/persons who are heeding the saying
          Action = the specific thing(s) they are doing/avoiding in order to heed the saying [i.e., ]how they heed the saying]
          Time/Place = general setting of the story but not necessarily included in the paragraph (to me, it can sound clunky)
          Manner = how the Action was done (-ly words work well here)
          Cause = WHY the Agents did the above named Action

          The Converse Paragraph is a NEGATIVE story of your own invention:
          Recognition = the truth of the saying in shortened form
          Reversal = how the subject will be PUNISHED by heeding the truth of the saying [this is a general reference to the punishments]
          Suffering = the SPECIFIC punishments and/or results of those punishments
          Agents = person/persons who are NOT heeding the saying
          Action = the specific actions/omissions through which they do not follow the saying
          Time/Place = general setting of the story but not necessarily included in the paragraph (to me, it can sound clunky)
          Manner = how the Action was done (-ly words work well here)
          Cause = WHY the Agents did the above named Action


          The Analogy Paragraph is a comparison between the outcome of heeding the truth of the saying and the outcome of another action; they are "dissimilar" in the sense that they would not ordinarily be compared despite the similarities between them. The comparison can be POSITIVE, NEGATIVE or BOTH.
          For example:
          Positive - we can compare the outcome of properly used authority with that of a properly used vehicle
          Negative - we can compare the outcome of improperly used authority with that of an improperly used vehicle
          Both - we can compare the outcome of properly used authority with that of a properly used vehicle and then contrast that with the outcome of the improper use of each.

          Please note that these are based on my personal understanding of the text/DVD/examples -- Ryan, Tanya, et al please correct where needed!
          This is a very helpful explanation of what is happening with the Cause/Converse components, Jen. I would agree with Sarah's addition, and would also flesh out the Recognition portion a little more. As the student learned in Fable and Narrative, the Recognition should follow on of these:

          A) things you (or the author/agent) have seen or experienced before (a personal connection between reader and actor/event/theme)
          B) Universal Truths; the moral or truth of the story

          The TM (which is absolutely in need of heavy editing/rewriting) has a good example of how the Recognition should look in Lesson 2. The Chreia is, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just." The Cause Recognition is, "God punishes unrighteous nations." This is a recognition in the A) sense, because the author (and probably the reader) is aware that his country is unrighteous, and therefore potentially under God's wrath.

          A note on the TM... we've received really good–and gracious–feedback from users and have a plethora of notes/edits to make for the next print. We genuinely appreciate that feedback and make use of it to continually improve the product. Thank you all!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

            Do you have tips for how to find quotations for the Testimony part?
            Melanie
            2021-2022: 13th year homeschooling. 8th MP year.

            A, 12th grade: online classes with MPOA and TPS
            E, 10th grade: 10th grade core; math with MPOA, biology at co-op
            B, 7th grade: 7th grade core; math and comp with MPOA

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

              Originally posted by melaneesa View Post
              Do you have tips for how to find quotations for the Testimony part?
              The kids were having a hard time with that, so for our last lesson on the nature of government, I printed out the Catholic Catechism paragraphs about authority/government coming from God, etc. and had the kids choose a passage from that for their Testimony. Not sure what I’m going to do for this next lesson!
              Jennifer
              Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

              Current

              DS19: MP grad; auto mechanic & business owner
              DS18: MP grad; college freshman
              DS16: MP except math
              DS14 & DD12: MP except history (CTP), science, and math
              DD11: SC4
              DD8: mix of MP K-2

              2023-2024 Plan
              DS17: Homeschool Connections and local MP Dante class
              DS15 & DD13: mix of MP, online providers using MP materials, and non-MP science
              DD11: MP/SC, online providers using MP materials
              DD8: mix of MP 1-3

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

                We are still in the political lessons, so I take a key word of the Chreia and type it into Brainy Quote to see if I can find a similar quote by another president or wise authority on government. Drives me crazy the sorts of people who are now considered “quotable,” but we are usually successful anyway.

                AMDG,
                Sarah
                2020-2021
                16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                DS, 17
                DD, 15
                DD, 13
                DD, 11
                DD, 9
                DD, 7
                +DS+
                DS, 2

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

                  Originally posted by melaneesa View Post
                  Do you have tips for how to find quotations for the Testimony part?
                  We bought a used copy of Bartlett’s Quotations for this. It’s been perfect!
                  Catherine

                  2022-23
                  14th year homeschooling
                  7th year with MP

                  DS19, college freshman
                  DS16, 10th
                  DS & DD14, 9th
                  DS10, 4th
                  DD7, 2nd
                  DS4, JrK
                  DS & DS, 1yr old

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Here are some helps for Chreia

                    Thank you, Jen! This is really helpful. I've printed your list to keep on hand for next year.
                    Ora et labora,
                    Sandra

                    DD (17) - grade 12 (Divine Comedy, Precalculus, AP Latin, Senior Thesis, Fundamentals of the Faith, American Government, and Economics through MPOA Diploma Program)


                    DD (13) - grade 9 (Algebra ll, Fourth Form Latin, Logic l & ll, High School Comp. ll, through MPOA. Aeneid/ History of the Romans, Geography lll, and Biology at home)

                    Comment

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