Math 7

[Katie]

By any random chance, would there be any beautifully laid out MP plans for the R&S Math 7 book? I know you all don’t sell this book, but I’m hanging on to a tiny sliver of hope there may be plans??

My daughter is in 5A with math 6, and while she is getting A’s on everything, I’m just not ready to have her do Pre-Alg in 6th next year. She really likes R&S and I really don’t care to teach COTR again. Which leads me to my next question..after completing 7, would she be safe to go on to Algebra?

[Cindy in Indy]

Re: Math 7

By any random chance, would there be any beautifully laid out MP plans for the R&S Math 7 book? I know you all don’t sell this book, but I’m hanging on to a tiny sliver of hope there may be plans??

My daughter is in 5A with math 6, and while she is getting A’s on everything, I’m just not ready to have her do Pre-Alg in 6th next year. She really likes R&S and I really don’t care to teach COTR again. Which leads me to my next question..after completing 7, would she be safe to go on to Algebra?

Hi Katie,
It is great to hear that your daughter is doing so well with math6. I think you are wise not to push your daughter ahead to algebra1 while she is still young. Math7 is a great course to solidify arithmetic and build fluency. I would not, however, go straight from math7 to algebra without the bridge from concrete to abstract that pre-algebra provides.

We like COTR, but if you choose not to use it, you might look at Prentice-Hall Classics pre-algebra. Then when she moves into PH classics algebra1, she will be accustomed to the format. We don't use PH pre-algebra, and would not be able to provide lesson plans, so you would have to schedule the lessons yourself. But the PH books do have chapter assessments at the end of each chapter, which you could use for verifying her progress.

We'll let Tanya chime in on the possibility of math7 lesson plans....

[Angela]

Re: Math 7

We are in the same boat! My dd is in 6th grade this year but had already done Math 6 last year. I chose R&S 7 vs. COTR for this year and am so glad of it. I feel like it is a significant step up from Math 6, enough that there is quite a bit of challenge. It also introduces basic pre-algebra, but does not go as far as COTR. I do have COTR on hand already and have compared the two. I think R&S 7 is providing us a good leg up so next year will not be too difficult.

I have not found it difficult to schedule. We do a lesson a day, and I often assign only odds for sections that have a large number of time consuming problems.

[DiannaKennedy]

Re: Math 7

Hi Katie,
It is great to hear that your daughter is doing so well with math6. I think you are wise not to push your daughter ahead to algebra1 while she is still young. Math7 is a great course to solidify arithmetic and build fluency. I would not, however, go straight from math7 to algebra without the bridge from concrete to abstract that pre-algebra provides.

We like COTR, but if you choose not to use it, you might look at Prentice-Hall Classics pre-algebra. Then when she moves into PH classics algebra1, she will be accustomed to the format. We don't use PH pre-algebra, and would not be able to provide lesson plans, so you would have to schedule the lessons yourself. But the PH books do have chapter assessments at the end of each chapter, which you could use for verifying her progress.

We'll let Tanya chime in on the possibility of math7 lesson plans....

Cindy,

Can we talk about how to know if a child is ready for pre-algebra? I'm mapping out my plans for next year, and really waffling between R&S 7 and Pre-Algebra in the MPOA. My daughter is in R&S 6 in the MPOA and doing OK, but the term 'pre-algebra' is making me stress. (perhaps unnecessarily)

[Mary]

Re: Math 7

Cindy,

Can we talk about how to know if a child is ready for pre-algebra? I'm mapping out my plans for next year, and really waffling between R&S 7 and Pre-Algebra in the MPOA. My daughter is in R&S 6 in the MPOA and doing OK, but the term 'pre-algebra' is making me stress. (perhaps unnecessarily)

Dianna - I am not Cindy (not remotely that cool) - but I want to reassure you that pre-algebra is not that hard. Really! You're a nurse and you know math, so you'll be great. I'm teaching it right now and I love it. Like, I get excited when I get out of bed in the morning because I get to teach it. Seriously. I put the next day's lesson on the whiteboard the night before so that I have my talking points up for dd to see as I go through the lesson, but there's not a ton of prep work and no concepts that will make your eyes cross. The major concepts and definitions are shaded and easy to find. I go over those, make sure I understand the sample problem and we're off to the races.

COTR is pretty self-explanatory and I like the way the student book is laid out. It did take some getting used to after R&S but I do like it. I have tweaked the lesson plans a bit, as they sometimes don't translate well (HLS does a 4-day-a-week schedule and when it was put into the 5-day 7M core schedule, some things came out wonky) but dd absolutely loves it because she's now learning the why behind some of the math concepts she's already learned.

All that being said, you have more littles than I do and you may not have the bandwidth to teach (which is why I'm farming out composition and algebra I next year). If that's the case, fear not - if your daughter needs any help outside of class, you should be able to jump in just fine. <3

Okay. Now it's Cindy's turn! She'll likely say something really dramatic and awesome and smart and I'll cringe and want to delete my post full of gobbeldygook. *cracks up laughing*

[melaneesa]

Re: Math 7

This is good to know. I've been wondering along similar lines. I can't bear another year of COTR (eldest is doing it now), so I was wondering about a substitute. I'm also not sure my current 6th grader will be ready for pre-algebra next year.

[Cindy in Indy]

Re: Math 7

Cindy,

Can we talk about how to know if a child is ready for pre-algebra? I'm mapping out my plans for next year, and really waffling between R&S 7 and Pre-Algebra in the MPOA. My daughter is in R&S 6 in the MPOA and doing OK, but the term 'pre-algebra' is making me stress. (perhaps unnecessarily)

Hi Dianna,
It can be a little tricky to decide whether to advance a child into pre-algebra. I personally prefer not to begin algebra before 13 years old. I know there are some younger students who can be successful, but I see more students who get pushed forward and then end up stuck in algebra2 or later in pre-calculus, and thus never reach their full potential. I am a big proponent of mastery and fluency at each step in math.

Research shows that it is not math aptitude that makes a student successful in algebra, it is abstract reasoning (which develops at different ages for different kids, but typically comes with puberty) combined with steady effort and practice. Pushing kids into algebra before that abstract reasoning is in place can lead to great frustration and a feeling of "I'm not good at math", when the actual truth is "I'm not developmentally ready for abstract reasoning; please give me another year to mature."

Students at our school advance into pre-algebra upon the recommendation of the 6th grade math teacher. The recommendation is based on maturity, mastery of arithmetic, and work habits. Students who take Math7 typically need another year to mature and to master all the arithmetic concepts (including percents, ratios, proportions). We sometimes have a student repeat pre-algebra in 8th grade if they are not successful in 7th grade pre-algebra, but it is better for students to take Math7 in 7th, followed by pre-algebra in 8th, rather than to repeat pre-algebra. Have you asked dd's math6 teacher for a recommendation? That teacher may be in a better position to make a good judgment, because they see dd's math ability.

[Katie]

Re: Math 7

Hi Katie,
It is great to hear that your daughter is doing so well with math6. I think you are wise not to push your daughter ahead to algebra1 while she is still young. Math7 is a great course to solidify arithmetic and build fluency. I would not, however, go straight from math7 to algebra without the bridge from concrete to abstract that pre-algebra provides.

We like COTR, but if you choose not to use it, you might look at Prentice-Hall Classics pre-algebra. Then when she moves into PH classics algebra1, she will be accustomed to the format. We don't use PH pre-algebra, and would not be able to provide lesson plans, so you would have to schedule the lessons yourself. But the PH books do have chapter assessments at the end of each chapter, which you could use for verifying her progress.

We'll let Tanya chime in on the possibility of math7 lesson plans....

Thanks, Cindy. Can you speak of Alg. after R&S 8? Or is there just not enough of pre-Algebra concepts in R&S? I’d like to ride the R&S train as long as possible. I will check our PHC Pre Algebra though, as I do like the Alg book my son is using now.

We are in the same boat! My dd is in 6th grade this year but had already done Math 6 last year. I chose R&S 7 vs. COTR for this year and am so glad of it. I feel like it is a significant step up from Math 6, enough that there is quite a bit of challenge. It also introduces basic pre-algebra, but does not go as far as COTR. I do have COTR on hand already and have compared the two. I think R&S 7 is providing us a good leg up so next year will not be too difficult.

I have not found it difficult to schedule. We do a lesson a day, and I often assign only odds for sections that have a large number of time consuming problems.

This is good to know. Thanks Angela. She could use a bit of a challenge.

This is good to know. I've been wondering along similar lines. I can't bear another year of COTR (eldest is doing it now), so I was wondering about a substitute. I'm also not sure my current 6th grader will be ready for pre-algebra next year.

Glad to know I’m not the only one. Ha. I could use the book for myself just fine,, but to teach it just about sent me (and my son) to the looney bin!

Dianna - I am not Cindy (not remotely that cool) - but I want to reassure you that pre-algebra is not that hard. Really! You're a nurse and you know math, so you'll be great. I'm teaching it right now and I love it. Like, I get excited when I get out of bed in the morning because I get to teach it. Seriously. I put the next day's lesson on the whiteboard the night before so that I have my talking points up for dd to see as I go through the lesson, but there's not a ton of prep work and no concepts that will make your eyes cross. The major concepts and definitions are shaded and easy to find. I go over those, make sure I understand the sample problem and we're off to the races.

COTR is pretty self-explanatory and I like the way the student book is laid out. It did take some getting used to after R&S but I do like it. I have tweaked the lesson plans a bit, as they sometimes don't translate well (HLS does a 4-day-a-week schedule and when it was put into the 5-day 7M core schedule, some things came out wonky) but dd absolutely loves it because she's now learning the why behind some of the math concepts she's already learned.

All that being said, you have more littles than I do and you may not have the bandwidth to teach (which is why I'm farming out composition and algebra I next year). If that's the case, fear not - if your daughter needs any help outside of class, you should be able to jump in just fine. <3

Okay. Now it's Cindy's turn! She'll likely say something really dramatic and awesome and smart and I'll cringe and want to delete my post full of gobbeldygook. *cracks up laughing*

Gosh, I’m envious of your Math enthusiasm. What is this Student book you speak of? Are you referring to the text? I’m confused.

[Cindy in Indy]

Re: Math 7

Thanks, Cindy. Can you speak of Alg. after R&S 8? Or is there just not enough of pre-Algebra concepts in R&S? I’d like to ride the R&S train as long as possible. I will check our PHC Pre Algebra though, as I do like the Alg book my son is using now.

Hi Katie,
When I was homeschooling my oldest, I loved the R&S math books as well, and I didn't know what to do for pre-algebra, so I used R&S Math8. However, math8 is not written to prepare a student for algebra. It has a lot of bookkeeping and business math useful to the Mennonite student preparing to enter the family business. We skipped all that because we were headed for algebra in 9th. Moving on to algebra was a big jump for my son. I was able to guide him through, but he would have been better prepared with a strong pre-algebra foundation.

I think PH pre-algebra will be suitable if you don't want to use COTR.

[DiannaKennedy]

Re: Math 7

Hi Dianna,
It can be a little tricky to decide whether to advance a child into pre-algebra. I personally prefer not to begin algebra before 13 years old. I know there are some younger students who can be successful, but I see more students who get pushed forward and then end up stuck in algebra2 or later in pre-calculus, and thus never reach their full potential. I am a big proponent of mastery and fluency at each step in math.

Research shows that it is not math aptitude that makes a student successful in algebra, it is abstract reasoning (which develops at different ages for different kids, but typically comes with puberty) combined with steady effort and practice. Pushing kids into algebra before that abstract reasoning is in place can lead to great frustration and a feeling of "I'm not good at math", when the actual truth is "I'm not developmentally ready for abstract reasoning; please give me another year to mature."

Students at our school advance into pre-algebra upon the recommendation of the 6th grade math teacher. The recommendation is based on maturity, mastery of arithmetic, and work habits. Students who take Math7 typically need another year to mature and to master all the arithmetic concepts (including percents, ratios, proportions). We sometimes have a student repeat pre-algebra in 8th grade if they are not successful in 7th grade pre-algebra, but it is better for students to take Math7 in 7th, followed by pre-algebra in 8th, rather than to repeat pre-algebra. Have you asked dd's math6 teacher for a recommendation? That teacher may be in a better position to make a good judgment, because they see dd's math ability.

This makes me feel a little better. She'll be 12 in April, so 13 by the time she starts algebra I. (looks like Katie's daughter is younger)

I totally get the maturity level/abstract reasoning thing. I did pose the question to her MPOA teacher, and she responded that if Rachel ended the class with an 85% or better, she'd give her a green light for pre-algebra. Unless the train gets totally derailed, I think we're solidly there. Pre-algebra SOUNDS scary to me, because I never took it, and, I took Algebra in 9th grade, not 8th. Were we learning pre-algebra concepts in 7th and 8th grade? I have no idea!

Do you have a recommendation for concepts to review during the summer, to start off strong in pre-algebra in the fall?


And Katie, I totally didn't mean to hijack your thread.

[Mary]

Re: Math 7

Gosh, I’m envious of your Math enthusiasm. What is this Student book you speak of? Are you referring to the text? I’m confused.

Sorry - the student book is the text.

I didn't like COTR right out of the gate because I am used to the open-and-go format of R&S and MP materials. I like having a teacher manual that actually helps me teach - imagine my surprise when I opened the solutions manual and found...only solutions! *weary laugh*

I started looking over the text each evening to familiarize myself with the next day's lesson and I write any important definitions/concepts on the white board. I use these as my talking points during the lesson. I think my enthusiasm is due to the fact that I never thought of myself as a math person until I started teaching my kids. Looking back, I think this is because there was no on-ramp to algebra in my middle school - kids went from consumer math in 7th grade straight to algebra in 8th grade. (Some kids took algebra in 9th grade, but I have no idea what they did for 8th grade math in that instance. I do know that there was no such thing as "pre-algebra" class in middle or high school.) Worse, when I hit algebra (actually, it hit me - like a ton of bricks!), I was assigned to a teacher who believed in peer teaching. She would put one sample problem on the board and then we'd have to work in small groups to finish the lesson/any homework problems. What. A. Disaster. I went from a solid A/B student in math to a kid who was thrilled to pull C's in algebra I and II. Oddly, I sailed through geometry and trigonometry and barely broke a sweat - those were GREAT classes!

[Katie]

Re: Math 7

This makes me feel a little better. She'll be 12 in April, so 13 by the time she starts algebra I. (looks like Katie's daughter is younger)

I totally get the maturity level/abstract reasoning thing. I did pose the question to her MPOA teacher, and she responded that if Rachel ended the class with an 85% or better, she'd give her a green light for pre-algebra. Unless the train gets totally derailed, I think we're solidly there. Pre-algebra SOUNDS scary to me, because I never took it, and, I took Algebra in 9th grade, not 8th. Were we learning pre-algebra concepts in 7th and 8th grade? I have no idea!

Do you have a recommendation for concepts to review during the summer, to start off strong in pre-algebra in the fall?


And Katie, I totally didn't mean to hijack your thread.

I welcome hijacking You all have good questions that help me too! We follow the 85% rule for all of our core subjects.

[melaneesa]

Re: Math 7

Sorry - the student book is the text.

I didn't like COTR right out of the gate because I am used to the open-and-go format of R&S and MP materials. I like having a teacher manual that actually helps me teach - imagine my surprise when I opened the solutions manual and found...only solutions! *weary laugh*

YES. This makes it very difficult to teach. I am used to having the student text within the teacher guide, so I can see what my student sees. Spoiled, I suppose! Also the way the text is laid out is difficult to navigate -- every page looks the same. No chapter breaks or divisions. And yes, only having solutions to half the problems is...odd. (ha ha that's a COTR joke) Anyway, I don't have time to pre-read the lesson and assemble sample problems on the board and so forth. I really need open and go.

I've also seen the maturity thing at play. My oldest struggled with COTR in 7th, so we tackled it again this year and it's going much better. Much, much better. Which is why I'm concerned about putting my next child in pre-algebra in 7th. Maybe with a daily math lesson from a math teacher she could do it, but I just can't take that much time on one subject with one kid. (I'm trying to do that with her in Latin and there's only so much time per kid.) I like the idea of giving her another year with R&S.

[tanya]

Re: Math 7

Confession: Cindy gave me her R& S Math 7 lesson plans months ago, and they are sitting untouched on my desk. So, once again, the buck stops on my desk, which is swimming with unfinished projects. I will move this to the front and hope to have them done and ready for sale in the next couple of weeks.

And, Cindy, I appreciate your not calling me out. You were so gentle with your little "We'll let Tanya chime in ..." comment!

Tanya

[Cindy in Indy]

Re: Math 7

This makes me feel a little better. She'll be 12 in April, so 13 by the time she starts algebra I.

Do you have a recommendation for concepts to review during the summer, to start off strong in pre-algebra in the fall?

Yes, I do! Fractions and signed numbers (that means positive and negative numbers). She will continue with those topics in pre-algebra, but keeping them fresh over the summer will help build her confidence.

My preferred resource for summer math practice is khanacademy.org Free and safe, no distracting bells or whistles. You can receive a weekly report on time spent and progress, which can be helpful with accountability.

I would select "6th grade math" or "7th grade math" for her summer practice. The program will guide her through. It will catch her gaps and give her additional practice on those topics. She can watch a tutorial video if she needs a review. She may run into a couple of topics that were not covered in R&S (related to probability, for instance). She can skip those or watch the tutorial video to learn how to do them. She will earn badges and energy points, which are like electronic "gold stars", and most kids find them motivating.

I don't know her summer schedule, but I would aim for 60 minutes per week, broken into three 20 minute sessions.