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    Novare Earth Science

    My boys (13 and 14, 8th grade) are having a very difficult time with Novare Earth Science. Their quiz grades have only gone above failing once or twice (they just took Quiz 17 last week).

    We've used flashcards, quizlet sets, Novare's weekly review suggestions, chapter objectives, learning checks/end-of-chapter questions (they use these to research the answers in the chapter), etc. but none of it helps.

    Any ideas???
    Jennifer
    Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

    DS16
    MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
    MPOA: High School Comp. II
    HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

    DS15
    MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
    MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
    HSC: Modern European History

    DS12
    7M with:
    Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

    DS11
    SC Level 4

    DD9
    3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

    DD7/8
    Still in SC Level 2

    DD 4/5
    SC Level C

    #2
    Re: Novare Earth Science

    Can you isolate where the troubles start? Is it with the math, or the memorization? Is it understanding the concepts? Is it that the quizzes require mastery of old material along with new material? Is it the format of the quizzes and tests (basically long answer comprehension questions, mini-essays almost)?

    I'm curious if Cindy Davis could chime in on what, if anything, they skip over when they do ES at HLS Indy. In my experience, the math has been difficult for those without a solid footing. Percent slope is no laughing matter. I had to dust off some of my own math.

    The hardest thing for me (lazy pants, I know) is that it is simply not MP: not MP guides, not MP organization, not MP quizzes and tests, etc. I am out of my wheelhouse for helping. It's not open and go for me because I'm not sure which file to open on the resource cd to find the answers I need for X random thing. Quiz keys derailed at Quiz 13 and I still don't have it totally figured out. I'm spoiled, I confess. But that's me. I'm not projecting this onto you, Jen. I'm just throwing open a window to my world that the learning curve of a non-MP resource is going to take more from mom/me.
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
    @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
    S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
    D · 8th
    D · 5th
    S · 2nd

    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Novare Earth Science

      Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
      Can you isolate where the troubles start? Is it with the math, or the memorization? Is it understanding the concepts? Is it that the quizzes require mastery of old material along with new material? Is it the format of the quizzes and tests (basically long answer comprehension questions, mini-essays almost)?

      I'm curious if Cindy Davis could chime in on what, if anything, they skip over when they do ES at HLS Indy. In my experience, the math has been difficult for those without a solid footing. Percent slope is no laughing matter. I had to dust off some of my own math.

      The hardest thing for me (lazy pants, I know) is that it is simply not MP: not MP guides, not MP organization, not MP quizzes and tests, etc. I am out of my wheelhouse for helping. It's not open and go for me because I'm not sure which file to open on the resource cd to find the answers I need for X random thing. Quiz keys derailed at Quiz 13 and I still don't have it totally figured out. I'm spoiled, I confess. But that's me. I'm not projecting this onto you, Jen. I'm just throwing open a window to my world that the learning curve of a non-MP resource is going to take more from mom/me.

      The memorization, understanding the various facets of the concepts, the quiz questions not being worded like the objectives they studied, glazed eyes when reading...
      Jennifer
      Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

      DS16
      MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
      MPOA: High School Comp. II
      HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

      DS15
      MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
      MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
      HSC: Modern European History

      DS12
      7M with:
      Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

      DS11
      SC Level 4

      DD9
      3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

      DD7/8
      Still in SC Level 2

      DD 4/5
      SC Level C

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Novare Earth Science

        What about your goals for this class? Is this a ramping up to high school science type of class for you or just an interesting middle school study? If the latter, could you do the assessment part differently (I'm thinking about some sort of Quizlet generated "test" or "quiz")? Could you also only cover part of the book to lessen the load, slowing down so you can really get some parts of it?

        Perhaps someone from MP or other moms have some insights here. My oldest is doing it in our cottage school and is loving it. There's only 1.5 hour of instruction and he does the "work" at home, but that's a lot different than tackling the teaching part at home. Sorry I'm not more help. :-(
        Festina lentē,
        Jessica P

        SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
        @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
        S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
        D · 8th
        D · 5th
        S · 2nd

        Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Novare Earth Science

          Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
          What about your goals for this class? Is this a ramping up to high school science type of class for you or just an interesting middle school study? If the latter, could you do the assessment part differently (I'm thinking about some sort of Quizlet generated "test" or "quiz")? Could you also only cover part of the book to lessen the load, slowing down so you can really get some parts of it?

          Perhaps someone from MP or other moms have some insights here. My oldest is doing it in our cottage school and is loving it. There's only 1.5 hour of instruction and he does the "work" at home, but that's a lot different than tackling the teaching part at home. Sorry I'm not more help. :-(

          They're doing it at our mini cottage school and have a great teacher. They just can't seem to get the material into their heads as they work during the week. I've used all my normal tactics apart from going back through it with them every day; wasn't sure if there were other suggestions before I head that route.
          Jennifer
          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

          DS16
          MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
          MPOA: High School Comp. II
          HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

          DS15
          MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
          MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
          HSC: Modern European History

          DS12
          7M with:
          Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

          DS11
          SC Level 4

          DD9
          3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

          DD7/8
          Still in SC Level 2

          DD 4/5
          SC Level C

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Novare Earth Science

            Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
            The hardest thing for me (lazy pants, I know) is that it is simply not MP: not MP guides, not MP organization, not MP quizzes and tests, etc. I am out of my wheelhouse for helping.
            Jessica, I think you got to the heart of the matter here. As I was thinking on it more last night, I remembered a conversation I had with my oldest the other day. He said that he found he better retained information when reading The Iliad if he answered his Study Guide questions while reading. I thought maybe this would help him in science, too, since he tends to get glossy-eyed/confused when reading the text. Then, I realized that we need to approach this MP-style. The kids need to have a time of preparation before reading, the actual reading, and time to reflect/explain afterwards. So here's what I'm thinking:

            1. Preparation
            Find italicized words in the day's reading assignment (lesson) and write them, with their definitions, in a notebook/binder
            Write the Learning Check questions, leaving 5-8 lines between them

            2. Reading
            Read the text, answering the Learning Check questions as they come up in the text

            3. Reflection
            Look at the Objectives section and write an explanation of each Objective that was covered in the day's reading assignment

            4. Review
            This is the part I still need to figure out. Currently, I'm thinking:
            Do the Weekly Review Guide activity listed in the day's lesson plan (lesson plan is from cottage school, but the guide can be found on the resource CD)
            Self-quiz on vocabulary, learning checks and objectives from current chapter and the one just previous; pencil mark mastered/unmastered, changing the marks as needed
            Once or twice a week: self-quiz, draw diagrams, work math, make charts, etc. on information from past quizzes

            What do you think?

            ETA: of course, getting the kids to do this will be another matter entirely...as one of them just made obvious *sigh*
            Last edited by jen1134; 02-01-2018, 09:14 AM.
            Jennifer
            Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

            DS16
            MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
            MPOA: High School Comp. II
            HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

            DS15
            MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
            MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
            HSC: Modern European History

            DS12
            7M with:
            Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

            DS11
            SC Level 4

            DD9
            3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

            DD7/8
            Still in SC Level 2

            DD 4/5
            SC Level C

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Novare Earth Science

              Jen,
              Just letting you know I am following along with this because I will have my next child doing either physical or earth next year, and I need a plan for helping her. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and I will be interested to hear what others think of the plan...

              My oldest did PS with MPOA, and my second didn’t need this level of help. But my third will need more direction of what to do. So this is very helpful...

              AMDG,
              Sarah
              2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
              DD, 18, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
              DS, 16
              DD, 14
              DD, 12
              DD, 10
              DD, 7.5
              DD, 5.5
              +DS+
              DS, 18 months

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Novare Earth Science

                I agree with missing the MP style. I love these books. I don't love the type of teacher support. Come on- a resource cd where I have to go to my computer and read the answers to grade? One reason I like MP is it helps lazy parents be better teachers. It's all right there and I don't have to piece together pieces from 10 different components.

                So- I suggest a new project for the wonder workers at MP (because we all know they just aren't busy enough right now). Is it possible to consider making an MP guide to Novare? There is no need to create new material- no new quizzes or questions- but compile it all into a student guide and teacher guide. The workbook would have the section vocabulary and terms to know, end of section assessment questions including any math problems with room to work them out. That way, the students can read the text while having their student guide open so they know better what to look for. I find that when they have to flip pages back and forth to read and then find the next question and then read again, it is very easy to get lost or distracted and not follow along well. The Teacher guide could have all the answers to the student guide and all the answers to the quizzes all in one nice book so I don't have to go to my computer station, locate the usually missing resource cd, and pull it open and then try to read on that terrible back-lit vertical surface of my computer screen. I know I could just print everything out and put it in a binder, but it still is not user friendly in the way the MP guides are. I know Novare starts at the age they are getting into high school and they need to learn to take notes on paper rather than a student guide, but in reality, I am more concerned that they actually learn the science and a guide would make it easier. Just like having a workbook and textbook for the Forms Latin makes Latin so much easier to learn than trying to learn from just the Henle text and a notebook. The key for me is learning the science- not learning note taking. They can "graduate" to no workbooks in literature, classics and history, but it would make the science so much more accessible to homeschoolers to have a guide. This would be a lot of work to get it all compiled into a beautiful MP guide, but I bet it would sell really well. Just another thing to consider in your long term plans.
                Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
                DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
                DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
                DS, 21, chemistry major
                DS, 18, Physics major
                DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
                DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
                DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Novare Earth Science

                  Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
                  Can you isolate where the troubles start? Is it with the math, or the memorization? Is it understanding the concepts? Is it that the quizzes require mastery of old material along with new material? Is it the format of the quizzes and tests (basically long answer comprehension questions, mini-essays almost)?

                  I'm curious if Cindy Davis could chime in on what, if anything, they skip over when they do ES at HLS Indy. In my experience, the math has been difficult for those without a solid footing. Percent slope is no laughing matter. I had to dust off some of my own math.

                  Earth Science is a class for 7th grade that meets twice a week at our school. We selected the topics that would be most helpful and interesting to our students, and we do not cover any topics that require math in Earth Science.
                  Cindy Davis
                  Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                  ds-25 college graduate: autodidact, working to pay the bills
                  ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
                  dd-21 college senior: Nursing

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Novare Earth Science

                    Originally posted by Cindy in Indy View Post
                    Earth Science is a class for 7th grade that meets twice a week at our school. We selected the topics that would be most helpful and interesting to our students, and we do not cover any topics that require math in Earth Science.
                    Oh my goodness...why didn't I ask you this last summer!? Smacks forehead. Mea culpa.
                    Festina lentē,
                    Jessica P

                    SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
                    @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
                    S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
                    D · 8th
                    D · 5th
                    S · 2nd

                    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Novare Earth Science

                      Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                      Jessica, I think you got to the heart of the matter here. As I was thinking on it more last night, I remembered a conversation I had with my oldest the other day. He said that he found he better retained information when reading The Iliad if he answered his Study Guide questions while reading. I thought maybe this would help him in science, too, since he tends to get glossy-eyed/confused when reading the text. Then, I realized that we need to approach this MP-style. The kids need to have a time of preparation before reading, the actual reading, and time to reflect/explain afterwards. So here's what I'm thinking:

                      1. Preparation
                      Find italicized words in the day's reading assignment (lesson) and write them, with their definitions, in a notebook/binder
                      Write the Learning Check questions, leaving 5-8 lines between them

                      2. Reading
                      Read the text, answering the Learning Check questions as they come up in the text

                      3. Reflection
                      Look at the Objectives section and write an explanation of each Objective that was covered in the day's reading assignment

                      4. Review
                      This is the part I still need to figure out. Currently, I'm thinking:
                      Do the Weekly Review Guide activity listed in the day's lesson plan (lesson plan is from cottage school, but the guide can be found on the resource CD)
                      Self-quiz on vocabulary, learning checks and objectives from current chapter and the one just previous; pencil mark mastered/unmastered, changing the marks as needed
                      Once or twice a week: self-quiz, draw diagrams, work math, make charts, etc. on information from past quizzes

                      What do you think?

                      ETA: of course, getting the kids to do this will be another matter entirely...as one of them just made obvious *sigh*
                      Hi Jen,
                      I do not teach Earth Science, but I have taught Physical Science and that may be similar. I think your 4-step plan: Prepare, Read, Reflection, Review sounds good. I might replace "Reflection" with "Write", because in my experience 7th grade boys are not long on reflection, but can do a specific activity, such as "write".

                      Under "Write" I would have them write out the answers to the learning check questions in that day's reading. After they finish the chapter, I would have them write out the answers to the objectives. If their teacher omits some topics, they don't have to answer those objectives. (At our school, we meet twice a week and do not cover all the content in Earth Science text.)
                      Under "Review", I would have them work through the weekly review guide, self-quizzing, reviewing old quizzes and flashcards.

                      When they get a poor score on the quiz, I would have them go back and fill in acceptable (correct) answers to the quiz questions. Because the quizzes are cumulative, they will need to know those answers again on future quizzes.

                      Regarding "getting them to do it", remember this is a process; they are growing in their study skills and ability to learn and retain. Earth Science may not be the highest priority (math, Latin, composition might be more important), and (in my opinion) it is ok to have a subject where they are "growing", even if they are not completely successful. I would set a time limit each day (30 minutes?) where they work on the above plan. (4 days per week). Ask them about what they are learning. They should be able to tell you about rocks, weather, tides, tectonic plates, etc, as they learn. And as they tell you about it, it may become more interesting to them and hopefully find a place in their long-term memory.
                      Last edited by Cindy in Indy; 02-01-2018, 05:56 PM.
                      Cindy Davis
                      Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                      ds-25 college graduate: autodidact, working to pay the bills
                      ds-23 college graduate: 1st year med school
                      dd-21 college senior: Nursing

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Novare Earth Science

                        Originally posted by Cindy in Indy View Post
                        Earth Science is a class for 7th grade that meets twice a week at our school. We selected the topics that would be most helpful and interesting to our students, and we do not cover any topics that require math in Earth Science.
                        So does this mean you don't do any of the topographic maps? That seemed like the coolest part to me. I even bought all of them from the USGS.
                        Dorinda

                        For 2019-2020
                        DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
                        DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
                        DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
                        DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Novare Earth Science

                          Originally posted by momgineer View Post
                          I agree with missing the MP style. I love these books. I don't love the type of teacher support. Come on- a resource cd where I have to go to my computer and read the answers to grade? One reason I like MP is it helps lazy parents be better teachers. It's all right there and I don't have to piece together pieces from 10 different components.
                          Amen! The resource CD drives me crazy. Every quiz is a different file. The quiz calculations are their own file, but the verbal quiz answers are about page 80 of the sample answers file. No wonder I am behind on grading. Even if you want to print it out, it is a major endeavor. I second the request for a printed guide.
                          Dorinda

                          For 2019-2020
                          DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
                          DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
                          DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
                          DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Novare Earth Science

                            Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
                            They're doing it at our mini cottage school and have a great teacher. They just can't seem to get the material into their heads as they work during the week. I've used all my normal tactics apart from going back through it with them every day; wasn't sure if there were other suggestions before I head that route.
                            Are you doing the grading or is she? I believe there is a grading rubric somewhere on the resource CD, at least their other books has one. I found myself taking off more points than he suggested before I read through it.
                            Dorinda

                            For 2019-2020
                            DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
                            DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
                            DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
                            DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Augmented Reality Sandbox

                              Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post
                              So does this mean you don't do any of the topographic maps? That seemed like the coolest part to me. I even bought all of them from the USGS.
                              Because I failed to ask my previous questions (noted above) our cottage school is doing the ENTIRE book, math and all. It's been excellent for the 8th graders who are very solid on math but more of a challenge for some of the seventh graders. My oldest boy has loved it. We actually took a field trip to Middle Tennessee State University's Earth Experience Museum and they had an augmented reality sandbox. If you haven't seen this, you have to check it out! We had a bunch of middle school boys we couldn't tear away from this sandbox!

                              https://youtu.be/CE1B7tdGCw0

                              And a tutorial on how to build one: https://youtu.be/YLYO0YhY83w (full disclosure, not cheap)
                              Festina lentē,
                              Jessica P

                              SY2019-2020 · 8th MP Year
                              @ Home, HLN, & MPOA
                              S · 10th, MPOA Henle 3
                              D · 8th
                              D · 5th
                              S · 2nd

                              Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

                              Comment

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