Grade 2 questions

[Katie]

Hello Friends!

My 7 year old daughter is set to begin some Grade 2 work after the break. She has been a struggling reader but has finally gained more confidence and is reading more fluently. My first question is where to place her in Literature? She is finishing up StoryTime Treasures and will need something for next semester. I had thought I'd just have her do More StoryTime Treasures, but wondering about the Grade 2 lit package. Are the books intended to be read by the student, buddy read, or mom read? At this point, I think her reading them independently may be a bit too much, but I know her comprehension skills are excellent and she can craft good sentences (although with several spelling errors)..and she would really enjoy these books. Would it be okay for us to buddy read these books or some days just I do the reading?

Also, she is BEGGING to start Latin. I was going to hold off until the beginning of next year to start Prima with her, but we have it and I'd like to go with her excitement. Could Prima be used orally? I'd still like most of her focus and energy for the rest of the year to be solidifying her phonics/reading, writing and Math.

Thanks!

[DiannaKennedy]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Hello Friends!

My 7 year old daughter is set to begin some Grade 2 work after the break. She has been a struggling reader but has finally gained more confidence and is reading more fluently. My first question is where to place her in Literature? She is finishing up StoryTime Treasures and will need something for next semester. I had thought I'd just have her do More StoryTime Treasures, but wondering about the Grade 2 lit package. Are the books intended to be read by the student, buddy read, or mom read? At this point, I think her reading them independently may be a bit too much, but I know her comprehension skills are excellent and she can craft good sentences (although with several spelling errors)..and she would really enjoy these books. Would it be okay for us to buddy read these books or some days just I do the reading?

Also, she is BEGGING to start Latin. I was going to hold off until the beginning of next year to start Prima with her, but we have it and I'd like to go with her excitement. Could Prima be used orally? I'd still like most of her focus and energy for the rest of the year to be solidifying her phonics/reading, writing and Math.

Thanks!

If she's a struggling reader ..... I think it's a toss up. (paging Michelle T to chime in) We have twins who were struggling readers, moved to the Simply Classical track for a while, but went from STT straight to the grade 2 Lit.

My guys have literature in a cottage school setting, where they read the selection aloud as a group around the room. My boys are able to read them independently, but still enjoy them. In my opinion, the beginning of the 2nd grade package is very gentle, with Prairie School.

Prima should be fine. There's not a LOT of writing, but what's there is helping to reinforce vocabulary, as well as grammar rules, etc.

[Michelle T]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Katie,

If your daughter is reading aloud the STT selections fluently and when asked the comprehension questions knows what she read, you could be ok to move onto the 2nd grade lit. I would say the MSTT literature is challenging as well and could prove beneficial to work through. The stories whether MSTT or 2nd grade lit are to be read aloud by the student. As a home school you only have one reader as opposed to a class of 18 so you will need to do some reading as well. If she is needing “buddy reading” which I define as reading at the same time, I would encourage MSTT. You could move at a faster pace then begin the 2nd grade lit to begin over the summer. If part of the concern is catching up to grade level, there is a built in level in the 3rd /4th grade.

Beginning Latin is fine if she is a pretty fluent reader. If you continue through MSTT, I’d hold off until starting 2nd grade lit. Students who have a good handle on the transitions between long and short vowels within their reading will do better. You could always purchase Prima and let her watch the videos but don’t require writing then when you begin 2nd grade lit, add he writing.

Blessings,
Michelle T

[KF2000]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Katie,

I would follow Michelle's post with just asking what your longer-ish timeframe is. Are you thinking of doing a good chunk of 2nd grade lit this spring so she can move into 3rd in the fall? Or planning for next year to be mostly 2nd? Do you continue school over the summer?

Having a bit clearer picture of your thoughts for her for the next year or two would help. I always hesitate at skipping things in these early years because of a young child's need for a lot of repetition in order to have things become cemented in long-term memory, but if you have a particular goal in mind it would be helpful to know that.

AMDG,
Sarah

[Katie]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Katie,

I would follow Michelle's post with just asking what your longer-ish timeframe is. Are you thinking of doing a good chunk of 2nd grade lit this spring so she can move into 3rd in the fall? Or planning for next year to be mostly 2nd? Do you continue school over the summer?

Having a bit clearer picture of your thoughts for her for the next year or two would help. I always hesitate at skipping things in these early years because of a young child's need for a lot of repetition in order to have things become cemented in long-term memory, but if you have a particular goal in mind it would be helpful to know that.

AMDG,
Sarah

Good morning, Sarah!

With this particular child, I am not concerned with getting her on track with a grade level because she is all over the board anyway. She is a very much a sensory girl and not following my beautiful MP plan as I have laid out for my older children. I'd much prefer her to follow the wonderful MP plans as written, but she is a different sort of gal than my other two. I've switched her to AAS and AAR and she has finally taken off with her reading. We suspect dyslexia, but waiting for a formal diagnosis. We had to let go of R&S math with this sweet pea, also. But she is at grade level with everything but Literature, Spelling, and Latin.

So, with so many substitutions, we will be working from MP individual plans for Literature, Latin, Cursive.

Here is what I am thinking for her Grade 2 start after break:

-Either MSTT or Lit 2
-NAC 2 and practice sheets
-Continue AAS 1 and AAR 2
-Finish Primary Mathematics 1B and begin 2A, using R&S Blacklines for fact practice
-History and Science Read Alouds
-Continues F&L 2, Preparing to Receive Jesus, At the Feet of Mary
-Possibly Begin Prima Latina

Does this sound okay for grade 2? Am I missing anything that is crucial to grade 2?

[Katie]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Katie,

If your daughter is reading aloud the STT selections fluently and when asked the comprehension questions knows what she read, you could be ok to move onto the 2nd grade lit. I would say the MSTT literature is challenging as well and could prove beneficial to work through. The stories whether MSTT or 2nd grade lit are to be read aloud by the student. As a home school you only have one reader as opposed to a class of 18 so you will need to do some reading as well. If she is needing “buddy reading” which I define as reading at the same time, I would encourage MSTT. You could move at a faster pace then begin the 2nd grade lit to begin over the summer. If part of the concern is catching up to grade level, there is a built in level in the 3rd /4th grade.

Beginning Latin is fine if she is a pretty fluent reader. If you continue through MSTT, I’d hold off until starting 2nd grade lit. Students who have a good handle on the transitions between long and short vowels within their reading will do better. You could always purchase Prima and let her watch the videos but don’t require writing then when you begin 2nd grade lit, add he writing.

Blessings,
Michelle T

She is a fluent reader when reading the STT books and her comprehension is excellent. In fact, her comprehension is way above her reading level. She is able to narrate my big kids literature back to me very accurately when we she is listening in or we are discussing a read aloud from the 5A list. I'm not sure I'd consider her a fluent reader compared to other grade 2 children? Although, my last grade 2 child was reading chapter books at the end of age 4, so that probably isn't a good comparison.

I suppose we aren't buddy reading based on your description. She reads a page, then I do the next, or paragraph or chapter, etc.

I'm not particularly concerned with catching her up to a grade level package. I just want to be sure she is still challenged a wee bit and also enjoying what she is reading. She has particularly requested "big kid books", which is why I was considering the grade 2 Lit. But, I certainly don't want her to be overwhelmed a frustrated..which comes easily.

Regarding Prima, is it not a good idea to study the lessons and skip the writing? This is what I was thinking for her. She will eventually continue with Latin sequence after Prima, so I was just hoping for exposure and fulfilling her desire to "do" Latin.

Thanks for your help!

[Katie]

Re: Grade 2 questions

If she's a struggling reader ..... I think it's a toss up. (paging Michelle T to chime in) We have twins who were struggling readers, moved to the Simply Classical track for a while, but went from STT straight to the grade 2 Lit.

My guys have literature in a cottage school setting, where they read the selection aloud as a group around the room. My boys are able to read them independently, but still enjoy them. In my opinion, the beginning of the 2nd grade package is very gentle, with Prairie School.

Prima should be fine. There's not a LOT of writing, but what's there is helping to reinforce vocabulary, as well as grammar rules, etc.

Thanks for your thoughts, Dianna!
She was working on some SC2 for half of last year and the start of this year..Writing, Spelling, Phonics, but I found it to be a bit too slow for her to continue on to SC3, so we've been using this semester as a gap semester to solidify skills before beginning grade 2.

[Michelle T]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Katie,

The way you describe the reading, taking turns, is perfect. When you re-read, be sure she get the pages she didn't read the previous time. This re-reading is important, especially for a less confident reader. As to her comprehension, it is not surprising she can follow the stories read aloud TO her. Listening levels are much higher than reading levels. That is why we recommend reading books TO your child 2 years above their actual ability. It builds their vocabulary and exposes them to advanced sentence structure as well. You might consider moving on with the MSTT because the stories get more difficult and are Lexile scored much higher than 1st grade. In second grade we are transitioning into chapter books over the 33 weeks, for a student who is not ready, this will be frustrating. You will know how to gauge. Be sure that whichever of the levels you choose, you complete the accompanying pre-reading and post-reading activities. This should be all the phonics for reading you would need, but they are needed.

As to spelling, you might consider the new Traditional Spelling which will be available after the first of the year. It is the best spelling program on the market --IMHO! Cheryl and many others worked to perfect this program. It had everything her research found a speller would need to be successful. The beta tests have had outstanding results. Not to mention it is very reasonably priced. That too, was important to Cheryl.

I would only suggest skipping the writing IF she was insistent on Latin but not ready for the writing AND the book is repeated WITH the writing. So she would watch the DVD's and be satisfied learning a little oral Latin.

I hope this information helps you in your decision.

Blessings,
Michelle T

[Mom2mthj]

Re: Grade 2 questions

[QUOTE=

So, with so many substitutions, we will be working from MP individual plans for Literature, Latin, Cursive.

Here is what I am thinking for her Grade 2 start after break:

-Either MSTT or Lit 2
-NAC 2 and practice sheets
-Continue AAS 1 and AAR 2
-Finish Primary Mathematics 1B and begin 2A, using R&S Blacklines for fact practice
-History and Science Read Alouds
-Continues F&L 2, Preparing to Receive Jesus, At the Feet of Mary
-Possibly Begin Prima Latina

Does this sound okay for grade 2? Am I missing anything that is crucial to grade 2?[/QUOTE]

I love AAS and AAR. I have used AAS for awhile with kids 2 and 3 and recently started AAR with my 4yo. I probably would have used AAR earlier if the series had been completed for my older kids. My choice would be to complete MSTT if you have it. Especially since you are only on AAR 2 it would be good reinforcement of those lessons. If she wants bigger kid books (I am assuming that means not picture books) those could be free reading from the library.

As for Prima, I have used some of the Prima Latina copybook in the second grade core package (it wasn't around for my oldest two) but none of my kids ever wrote in the student book for Prima (or LC for that matter) because I never found the books to be formatted with age appropriate line spacing. We mostly use a small dry erase board and work on Latin together until first form. I am only 1 out of 3 for kids finishing Prima at all, but my oldest who did finish wrote nothing of substance in Prima in first grade. She memorized vocab (but not necessarily spelling) and the prayers. At 15 she still remembers the prayers, sings in a Latin choir at church, and generally loves Latin (and Greek).

Good luck on deciding what is best for your daughter. There isn't just one right answer especially since you aren't trying to follow complete cores.

[DiannaKennedy]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Thanks for your thoughts, Dianna!
She was working on some SC2 for half of last year and the start of this year..Writing, Spelling, Phonics, but I found it to be a bit too slow for her to continue on to SC3, so we've been using this semester as a gap semester to solidify skills before beginning grade 2.

I completely understand ---- we straddled the line between SC and MP 1. My boys probably COULD have done 3rd grade classes, but it would have been a struggle. I'm glad of my decision with 2nd grade. We've shored up their confidence, and they're getting into an excellent flow.

[howiecram]

Re: Grade 2 questions

If you are only on AAr2, that is really not far enough for Lit 2. We are on level 4, alongside the SC3 phonics. We did FSR E (as a review since she already did it), then moved quickly through the SCMSTT. We breezed through. I think I should have used the regular (but we completed level 3 over the summer). Also note, I gave my daughter the DORA assessement at the end of AAR2 and she scored only 1.7....(so frustrating! I thought she was reading much higher!). Her comprehension and vocabulary was significantly higher. The test informed me that because there was such a gap, her high comprehension & vocabulary were “tricking” me into thinking her decoding skills are higher. She can infer, or guess through sentences. We are reading through the SC3 history books and much is out of her realm of knowledge, and the lower decoding skills are coming through. She has made great progress though! I bought a book for myself, so we can be like a class! .

Incidental, last year we did AAR2, AAS1 and the SC STT. I just made sure that if it was a story day in AAR, it was not a day we read the STT.

Lastly, my daughter’s other problem is misreading SMALL words. She, at this point can not read chapter books without me, because sometimes those incorrect small words totally change the meaning. Again, there is much improvement, and she did great with all the MSTT, until we got to “Keep the Lights Burning”. So, now I am asking her to read those by herself, without me!

These smart, but possibly dyslexic girls can keep us guessing! I was unsure whether I would complete level 4, but I am already seeing the benefits! We will not begin Prairie School until we are done with level 4!

[jenniferjb]

Re: Grade 2 questions

I used AAR with my youngest two - my son was a struggling reader. Both started Storytime Treasures about halfway through AAR2. We did some of More Storytime Treasures, but not all. He loved Billy and Blaze so I bought all of those. I filled in with Little Bear-like books (Frog & Toad and Mouse Tales that I had from my Sonlight Readers) before moving back to MSTT and finishing up with Keep the Lights Burning Abbie. We were around Lesson 30 in AAR3 when he started 2nd grade literature. We plugged away with AAR completing one story per week (so sometimes one lesson plus story, sometimes two lessons plus story) in addition to MP Lit. He read the AAR story on a day with no STT/MSTT. AAR moves very slowly, but my son really started to breeze through the lessons starting around level 3. He did Grade 2 Lit, Grade 3 Lit, and then moved straight to Grade 5 Lit. He is now on track with 5M.

[Katie]

Re: Grade 2 questions

I used AAR with my youngest two - my son was a struggling reader. Both started Storytime Treasures about halfway through AAR2. We did some of More Storytime Treasures, but not all. He loved Billy and Blaze so I bought all of those. I filled in with Little Bear-like books (Frog & Toad and Mouse Tales that I had from my Sonlight Readers) before moving back to MSTT and finishing up with Keep the Lights Burning Abbie. We were around Lesson 30 in AAR3 when he started 2nd grade literature. We plugged away with AAR completing one story per week (so sometimes one lesson plus story, sometimes two lessons plus story) in addition to MP Lit. He read the AAR story on a day with no STT/MSTT. AAR moves very slowly, but my son really started to breeze through the lessons starting around level 3. He did Grade 2 Lit, Grade 3 Lit, and then moved straight to Grade 5 Lit. He is now on track with 5M.

Yes, this is what I've decided to do..continue on with MSTT and AAR, just alternating days. AAR does move slowly but it's working, so we are going to stick with it! Although it's not super important to me to get her on grade level, it's good to know that it worked for your son and is still possible for us too. Thank you!

These smart, but possibly dyslexic girls can keep us guessing! I was unsure whether I would complete level 4, but I am already seeing the benefits! We will not begin Prairie School until we are done with level 4!

Gosh, isn't this true?!? Thanks for sharing the info about AAR. I suppose because of how quickly she has taken off with her reading, I was fooled into thinking she would be okay with Lit 2. Keeping her confident is the key. I think Lit 2 may have eventually led to frustration. We've JUST climbed over the "It's too hard" hill. I sure don't want to fall back down to the bottom! I will reassess after she works through AAR3 and MSTT.

I love AAS and AAR. I have used AAS for awhile with kids 2 and 3 and recently started AAR with my 4yo. I probably would have used AAR earlier if the series had been completed for my older kids. My choice would be to complete MSTT if you have it. Especially since you are only on AAR 2 it would be good reinforcement of those lessons. If she wants bigger kid books (I am assuming that means not picture books) those could be free reading from the library.

As for Prima, I have used some of the Prima Latina copybook in the second grade core package (it wasn't around for my oldest two) but none of my kids ever wrote in the student book for Prima (or LC for that matter) because I never found the books to be formatted with age appropriate line spacing. We mostly use a small dry erase board and work on Latin together until first form. I am only 1 out of 3 for kids finishing Prima at all, but my oldest who did finish wrote nothing of substance in Prima in first grade. She memorized vocab (but not necessarily spelling) and the prayers. At 15 she still remembers the prayers, sings in a Latin choir at church, and generally loves Latin (and Greek).

Good luck on deciding what is best for your daughter. There isn't just one right answer especially since you aren't trying to follow complete cores.

Great idea regarding Prima! She much prefers to use a dry erase board anyway.. she does a good chunk of her work on one. Just from the exposure she gets from my big two and the Latin songs and prayers from co-op, I think she will do fine in Prima. LC seems like a giant leap from Prima for this kiddo, so we may take Prima slow anyway.

Katie,

The way you describe the reading, taking turns, is perfect. When you re-read, be sure she get the pages she didn't read the previous time. This re-reading is important, especially for a less confident reader. As to her comprehension, it is not surprising she can follow the stories read aloud TO her. Listening levels are much higher than reading levels. That is why we recommend reading books TO your child 2 years above their actual ability. It builds their vocabulary and exposes them to advanced sentence structure as well. You might consider moving on with the MSTT because the stories get more difficult and are Lexile scored much higher than 1st grade. In second grade we are transitioning into chapter books over the 33 weeks, for a student who is not ready, this will be frustrating. You will know how to gauge. Be sure that whichever of the levels you choose, you complete the accompanying pre-reading and post-reading activities. This should be all the phonics for reading you would need, but they are needed.

As to spelling, you might consider the new Traditional Spelling which will be available after the first of the year. It is the best spelling program on the market --IMHO! Cheryl and many others worked to perfect this program. It had everything her research found a speller would need to be successful. The beta tests have had outstanding results. Not to mention it is very reasonably priced. That too, was important to Cheryl.

I would only suggest skipping the writing IF she was insistent on Latin but not ready for the writing AND the book is repeated WITH the writing. So she would watch the DVD's and be satisfied learning a little oral Latin.

I hope this information helps you in your decision.

Blessings,
Michelle T

Thank you, Michelle! I did end up ordering MSTT. After all these helpful comments, this seems to be the most appropriate for her ability right now.

I am excited to see the Traditional Spelling program. I'm not sure it will be a good fit for this particular child, she really thrives on the multi-sensory aspect of AAS, especially manipulating the tiles. However, I am certainly considering it for my twins coming up the ranks. Will it be added to the core packages in place of SWO?

[Michelle T]

Re: Grade 2 questions

Traditional Spelling will be included in the Core packages beginning in January. The program has a variety of multi-sensory aspects, in fact, many activities encompass more than one! We just don't label each activity with " this is for auditory learning" or "this is for visual", "this is kinesthetic", but all these are included. I would still encourage you to continue with AAS if it is successful for your student and you are comfortable teaching it. But I will say Traditional Spelling is an option that, IMHO, is better than any other program currently on the market and complements/completes our phonics for reading program.

Blessings,
Michelle T