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    OT: Noise Control

    Mamas, I need advice.

    I’m reading a book called “Triggers: Exchanging Parents’ Angry Reactions For Gentle Biblical Responses”. (I have the kindle version and the physical study guide.) It delves in to external and internal “triggers” that make us lose our cool — and our temper. The books are meant to guide you through each area and help your strategize offensively so you’re not backed in to a corner where you react out of defense.

    One of my biggest triggers is NOISE. My kids are LOUD. They are generally well-behaved, they enjoy quiet time as much as I do, but they are still kids. They play, they rough house, they sing silly songs, they have goofy conversations, they talk over one another — and over me. There is no such thing as an Indoor Voice with these people. I was gifted by God with a very clear and possessive singing and speaking voice. So was my husband. So I am not blaming my kids for being little jet engines. They inherited these pipes. (Except for my younger son, who is so quiet I can hardly hear him when he’s right beside me — poor kid.)

    “Triggers” gives great Scripture and (somewhat pithy) phrasing to instruct me *why* I should calm down my barking when I’ve had my limit. But it does not tell me HOW. (Honestly, this is my biggest beef with most sermons, homilies, workbooks and self-help programs. But that’s another post.)

    So can someone give me *concrete* examples of how to tame my monster when my Introverted brain has just HAD ENOUGH and I want to put on shop headphones for the rest of the day? I know I can walk away, count to ten, pretend I’m an elephant, or a host of other (honestly, impractical) things, but can someone give advice on exactly what to say or do when I am teetering on the edge of yelling “SHUT UUUUUUUUP!” at my kids?

    ETA: Maybe I can take a page from Sarah and Katie and give myself sentences to write?
    https://forum.memoriapress.com/showt...395-8-year-old

    How about I start with Proverbs 16:32?
    “He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty;
    and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.”
    Last edited by Anita; 11-17-2017, 08:38 AM.
    “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

    ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
    Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
    Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
    Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

    #2
    Re: OT: Noise Control

    Oh, Anita...I feel your struggle. I live your struggle. Daily.

    As a full blooded, 100% straight up Italian, I grew up in a family where regular conversations could blow your eardrums out. I am a complete introvert and can't stand the noise. My husband is a musician who could hear grass grow, so the noise also greatly disturbs him. The only thing I've done, after really praying about it, is to stare at my kids when they've gotten to the point of "beyond loud." Literally, I just stare at them and imagine their faces crumbling if I yelled the way I really, Really, want to in that moment. I know I have the power in my hands to crush their spirits, and I take a few seconds of looking at them to remember that. It settles me enough to speak with authority, but calmly.

    I hope this is in any way helpful, and that others give you some useful strategies. I know how hard this is.
    Tracy
    My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
    MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

    Comment


      #3
      Re: OT: Noise Control

      Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
      Oh, Anita...I feel your struggle. I live your struggle. Daily.

      As a full blooded, 100% straight up Italian, I grew up in a family where regular conversations could blow your eardrums out. I am a complete introvert and can't stand the noise. My husband is a musician who could hear grass grow, so the noise also greatly disturbs him. The only thing I've done, after really praying about it, is to stare at my kids when they've gotten to the point of "beyond loud." Literally, I just stare at them and imagine their faces crumbling if I yelled the way I really, Really, want to in that moment. I know I have the power in my hands to crush their spirits, and I take a few seconds of looking at them to remember that. It settles me enough to speak with authority, but calmly.

      I hope this is in any way helpful, and that others give you some useful strategies. I know how hard this is.
      My husband is Portuguese, girl! I feel ya. Thanks for the validation <3
      “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

      ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
      Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
      Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
      Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

      Comment


        #4
        Re: OT: Noise Control

        Anita,
        It is so funny to get a glimpse into other people's real-life existence sometimes. I also have several family members for whom a harsh voice completely makes them crumble, and several of us who will often NEED for the noise to JUST STOP.

        And that is what I do in those moments, when I am feeling overwhelmed with it all: I simply say SSSSTTTTTOOOOPPPP. Not in an angry voice; just a normal voice that is loud enough to be heard over the din. Then I follow it with: "I have had enough now and you all need to stop." Then I shuffle kids outside if that is what they need, or I tell them that there is no more talking for a while, or I tell them I am going for a walk (a luxury moms of littles do not have).

        I am not a huge fan of self-help books because I usually come away from them feeling like I am constantly failing. "Strategies" always seem to fall flat, and nothing really addresses my personal habits.

        What I try to focus on instead are three things:

        1). I am totally honest with my kids about my weaknesses. When I fail, I admit it and apologize. If I overreact, I give myself a timeout, then when i am ready I apologize sincerely for getting too upset. I ask for their forgiveness. I don't act like I have it "all-together" for them because I don't. I make jokes about my weaknesses so that they know I don't take them too seriously - which also happens to teach them not to take THEIR weaknesses too seriously!

        2). I don't expect my bad habits to totally go away. This is not a license to continue, but it is a reminder to me that God made me the way I am, and much of how I act is from the personality God gave me, and the formative experiences I had when I was young. There's only so much I can do about those things. Jesus can do infinite goodness to correct my failings, and I pray for His help to free me from them. But the fact that He hasn't is something I realize as a way to keep me humble. I would probably be a pretty awful human being if I were able to correct all my faults in my lifetime! Talk about insufferable! I praise God that He keeps me humble by leaving me to struggle with myself.

        3). I pray. I pray in the morning on the kind of day I want to have; I pray every moment that comes along to handle it well and to make the sacrifice being asked of me; I pray when I fail; I pray when I succeed; and I follow it up with my prayers at the end of the day - especially an Act of Contrition. It is an ongoing conversation all day long.

        I don't know if these are the sorts of "specifics" you wanted, but they are all I do on a regular basis.
        God bless!
        AMDG,
        Sarah
        Last edited by KF2000; 11-17-2017, 11:27 AM.
        2020-2021
        16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
        DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
        DS, 17
        DD, 15
        DD, 13
        DD, 11
        DD, 9
        DD, 7
        +DS+
        DS, 2

        Comment


          #5
          Re: OT: Noise Control

          Originally posted by Anita View Post
          Mamas, I need advice.


          So can someone give me *concrete* examples of how to tame my monster when my Introverted brain has just HAD ENOUGH and I want to put on shop headphones for the rest of the day? I know I can walk away, count to ten, pretend I’m an elephant, or a host of other (honestly, impractical) things, but can someone give advice on exactly what to say or do when I am teetering on the edge of yelling “SHUT UUUUUUUUP!” at my kids?
          Maybe I'm the lone dissenter, but if putting on shop headphones helps your sanity, then why not? My introvert husband wears earbuds at home frequently to drown out the clamor/whining. I'm like, 'Great. Thanks for leaving me here to fend for myself."

          (and I had a longer response, but it was EATEN by the forums)

          At some point, I DO try to explain to the kids why talking to me past 7pm is not good for my mental health. We all live here together, and at some point, it's important for us to all learn to respect each other's need for space/quiet, etc.

          #sanctificationthroughparenting
          Plans for 2021-22

          Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

          DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
          DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
          DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
          DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
          DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
          DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: OT: Noise Control

            I worked with a teacher who would put on music during quiet working time. He would set the music at a low-reasonable level. If the kids' voices began to exceed the level of the music, he would give them one warning that they needed to quiet down or the music would go off, and if that happened, there would be complete silence for the rest of the working period. It was a surprisingly effective strategy.

            I like how Sarah mentioned that it's fun to get an insight into others' homeschools. I am an introvert homeschooling another introvert. My husband and other kids are extroverts. The 10 yo and I can sit for hours without making a single noise. I can be two rooms away and hear him erasing with a pencil. It is so, so, so wonderful when introverts can "hear themselves think".


            Jen
            DS, 28 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

            DS, 26 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

            DD, 23 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

            DS, 13 yrs, 9th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

            All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

            Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling, now a high school chemistry teacher at a large Catholic high school

            Comment


              #7
              Re: OT: Noise Control

              Originally posted by Jen in Japan View Post
              I worked with a teacher who would put on music during quiet working time. He would set the music at a low-reasonable level. If the kids' voices began to exceed the level of the music, he would give them one warning that they needed to quiet down or the music would go off, and if that happened, there would be complete silence for the rest of the working period. It was a surprisingly effective strategy.

              I like how Sarah mentioned that it's fun to get an insight into others' homeschools. I am an introvert homeschooling another introvert. My husband and other kids are extroverts. The 10 yo and I can sit for hours without making a single noise. I can be two rooms away and hear him erasing with a pencil. It is so, so, so wonderful when introverts can "hear themselves think".


              Jen
              I love this music idea. LOVE IT.
              Tracy
              My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
              MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

              Comment


                #8
                Re: OT: Noise Control

                Originally posted by Jen in Japan View Post
                I worked with a teacher who would put on music during quiet working time. He would set the music at a low-reasonable level. If the kids' voices began to exceed the level of the music, he would give them one warning that they needed to quiet down or the music would go off, and if that happened, there would be complete silence for the rest of the working period. It was a surprisingly effective strategy.

                I like how Sarah mentioned that it's fun to get an insight into others' homeschools. I am an introvert homeschooling another introvert. My husband and other kids are extroverts. The 10 yo and I can sit for hours without making a single noise. I can be two rooms away and hear him erasing with a pencil. It is so, so, so wonderful when introverts can "hear themselves think".


                Jen
                My husband is an ENTP/ENTJ. I’m an ISFJ. It’s a miracle we have stayed married this long.
                I cannot think or get things done in mindless noise, clutter, chaos or a constant barrage of requests. My husband can tune all that out. I feel like I’ve been wrung through a mill by the end of the day. I cannot even have music on (as much as I like that idea). Silence is my friend. (I truly think I would have been a Sister if I hadn’t gotten married. Grand Silence makes me SO. HAPPY.)

                I am the first one up and the last one in bed. I WORK. EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. I take a nap with the baby when I can — because by the time 1:30 rolls around, I have already worked an 8-hour day. Even if I don’t get to sleep, I at least get to rest. I am always thinking about how I can do things better, more efficiently, with more intention, meaning and grace. But these children keep me incredibly grounded in the midst of that effort! (“I’d be a great mom if it weren’t for my kids!”) The noise, complaining, whining, petty bickering, refusal to obey or eat “strange new foods”, et al, plus the calling of my name every 15 seconds (usually to tell me something urgently obvious or to ask something completely inane) begins. And it rarely subsides until abut 8 PM. We have quiet time during the day; I give the kids chores; they get exercise regularly; they are DEFINITELY taken care of and disciplined well.

                Where I break down is when, after his nagging me for 15 minutes, I am politely making (unscheduled) pancakes for my 5 YO and his siblings and he’s whining about not having the orange juice he prefers. Then the NOISE starts. (And I *am* one of those introverts who can hear grass grow!). I am patient and pretty light and airy (with parental admonition sprinkled in and good boundaries) until about the 87th time I get interrupted, ignored, or screeched over while I am on the phone. When they happens? KABOOOOOM. I rearranged my whole morning for this? TO GET DUMPED ON? LIKE I’M “THE HELP” and not a THE MOM?! Oh, HEHHHHHHHCK NO.

                All the Scripture passages in the world aren’t going to help me then. And that’s what I mean: I know *why* temper control is favorable. I get it. I want to know HOW to stop the explosion. I have researched saints who had anger issues.

                St Jerome always springs to mind the most readily. He had a HORRIBLE temper. To remedy this, he did extreme penances and even went to the extreme of living in a cave near the site of the Nativity. It was also said that he carried a stone around in his vestment. Whenever he lost his temper, he struck himself in the chest with it.

                While I don’t think those sorts of things are appropriate (and because my temper has actually gotten waaaay better over the last year) I do understand that to erase a vice we must practice the opposing virtue. So the opposite of anger would be? Patience? How do I cultivate patience when I’ve been practicing it ALL DAY LONG and I’m just out of it?
                “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

                ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
                Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: OT: Noise Control

                  Originally posted by Anita View Post
                  My husband is an ENTP/ENTJ. I’m an ISFJ. It’s a miracle we have stayed married this long.
                  I cannot think or get things done in mindless noise, clutter, chaos or a constant barrage of requests. My husband can tune all that out. I feel like I’ve been wrung through a mill by the end of the day. I cannot even have music on (as much as I like that idea). Silence is my friend. (I truly think I would have been a Sister if I hadn’t gotten married. Grand Silence makes me SO. HAPPY.)

                  I am the first one up and the last one in bed. I WORK. EVERY DAY OF THE WEEK. I take a nap with the baby when I can — because by the time 1:30 rolls around, I have already worked an 8-hour day. Even if I don’t get to sleep, I at least get to rest. I am always thinking about how I can do things better, more efficiently, with more intention, meaning and grace. But these children keep me incredibly grounded in the midst of that effort! (“I’d be a great mom if it weren’t for my kids!”) The noise, complaining, whining, petty bickering, refusal to obey or eat “strange new foods”, et al, plus the calling of my name every 15 seconds (usually to tell me something urgently obvious or to ask something completely inane) begins. And it rarely subsides until abut 8 PM. We have quiet time during the day; I give the kids chores; they get exercise regularly; they are DEFINITELY taken care of and disciplined well.

                  Where I break down is when, after his nagging me for 15 minutes, I am politely making (unscheduled) pancakes for my 5 YO and his siblings and he’s whining about not having the orange juice he prefers. Then the NOISE starts. (And I *am* one of those introverts who can hear grass grow!). I am patient and pretty light and airy (with parental admonition sprinkled in and good boundaries) until about the 87th time I get interrupted, ignored, or screeched over while I am on the phone. When they happens? KABOOOOOM. I rearranged my whole morning for this? TO GET DUMPED ON? LIKE I’M “THE HELP” and not a THE MOM?! Oh, HEHHHHHHHCK NO.

                  All the Scripture passages in the world aren’t going to help me then. And that’s what I mean: I know *why* temper control is favorable. I get it. I want to know HOW to stop the explosion. I have researched saints who had anger issues.

                  St Jerome always springs to mind the most readily. He had a HORRIBLE temper. To remedy this, he did extreme penances and even went to the extreme of living in a cave near the site of the Nativity. It was also said that he carried a stone around in his vestment. Whenever he lost his temper, he struck himself in the chest with it.

                  While I don’t think those sorts of things are appropriate (and because my temper has actually gotten waaaay better over the last year) I do understand that to erase a vice we must practice the opposing virtue. So the opposite of anger would be? Patience? How do I cultivate patience when I’ve been practicing it ALL DAY LONG and I’m just out of it?
                  I could have written all this myself! I actually felt my blood pressure rising just reading your descriptions. Deeeeep breaths.

                  I've been thinking about the headphones/earplugs idea. My husband listens to headphones while he makes dinner and the kids trash the house. But everyone is surprisingly much happier than when I make dinner while continually stopping to break up fights or nag the kids to clean up. But I don't necessarily want music in my head either, I just want complete, absolute silence. Is that so much to ask!?

                  I think I'm with your saint guy, the cave is sounding really good right now.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: OT: Noise Control

                    Anita,

                    How dare you dangle your letters at me. As an INTJ, I can't, can't, can't.... resist the bait. I have to analyze the situation. Can't. Stop. Myself....

                    And, here you are. Literally. I laughed out loud when I read this, because this is pretty much how you present on the forums: https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality

                    Here's the parenting blurb: https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-parents


                    So, using my expert analysis skills (Sherlock Holmes was written as an INTJ), I deduce that your actual issue might be "boundaries" more than noise itself. You are struggling to place appropriate boundaries with your kids, more than actual noise control. I suspect your temper issues might be related to the fact that you feel your kids haven't recognized the (reasonable) boundaries you have set (in your mind), and so you get to the point of the Big Blow Up. If you do recognize this as a part of the equation, you might want to switch books. The boundary experts, IMO, are Drs Cloud and Townsend: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FCKS1Y...ng=UTF8&btkr=1 (Boundaries With Kids, if the link fails to work).

                    As a person with *lots* of boundaries, Drs. Cloud and Townsend's books have really helped me understand that *I* am usually reacting TO people who are pushing my boundaries, more so than some lack of charity on my own part . We live in a world which favors extroverts and those who push boundaries. Life is a struggle for introverts with boundaries.



                    Jen
                    DS, 28 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

                    DS, 26 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                    DD, 23 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

                    DS, 13 yrs, 9th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

                    All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

                    Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling, now a high school chemistry teacher at a large Catholic high school

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: OT: Noise Control

                      Originally posted by Jen in Japan View Post
                      Anita,

                      How dare you dangle your letters at me. As an INTJ, I can't, can't, can't.... resist the bait. I have to analyze the situation. Can't. Stop. Myself....

                      And, here you are. Literally. I laughed out loud when I read this, because this is pretty much how you present on the forums: https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-personality

                      Here's the parenting blurb: https://www.16personalities.com/isfj-parents


                      So, using my expert analysis skills (Sherlock Holmes was written as an INTJ), I deduce that your actual issue might be "boundaries" more than noise itself. You are struggling to place appropriate boundaries with your kids, more than actual noise control. I suspect your temper issues might be related to the fact that you feel your kids haven't recognized the (reasonable) boundaries you have set (in your mind), and so you get to the point of the Big Blow Up. If you do recognize this as a part of the equation, you might want to switch books. The boundary experts, IMO, are Drs Cloud and Townsend: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FCKS1Y...ng=UTF8&btkr=1 (Boundaries With Kids, if the link fails to work).

                      As a person with *lots* of boundaries, Drs. Cloud and Townsend's books have really helped me understand that *I* am usually reacting TO people who are pushing my boundaries, more so than some lack of charity on my own part . We live in a world which favors extroverts and those who push boundaries. Life is a struggle for introverts with boundaries.



                      Jen
                      Bait taken. Score one for Anita. I was hoping you’d give me some expert advice here, Jen. I threw out my letters in just that hope! I looked up your letters when you mentioned them on the Prim thread and I must say, you’re a bit of an alien to me (in a good way); fascinating, steely, clinical, logical, analyzing, rich. It made a lot of things make sense. But it also ensured that we could have a good verbal spar and you wouldn’t take it too seriously (which I ADORE in another woman — most women have a hard time with debate and sticking to the facts without devolving in to character assassination or victim-tears). Over our 14 years together, The Engineer (ENTP/ENTJ) has worked wonders with my ability to argue from an impersonal perspective and to think systematically (though it is certainly still not my strong suit, so go easy on me — I’m never going to be as precise or as perceptive as you two!). But I digress...

                      Yes — boundaries have been on my mind a lot lately. And it is very true that this is historically an area where I struggle. In addition to my own personality type’s predilection for forgetting self and nurturing and defending others, I also grew up with parents who were my opposite in almost all ways. So when I had children, I was determined to “do it right”, simply because the repercussions of the way I was parented were (and still are) so pervasive.

                      I know, 100%, that my temper does not come from malice. At no time do I wish on my children harm, revenge, failure or humiliation. I just want them to obey out of respect for what I do for them, who I am for them and because I ABHOR rudeness. When I am ignored or dismissed that trips my RUDENESS wire. I don’t know if it’s my personality type or something else, but that sends me to A Bad Place, temper-wise.

                      I know they’re kids; I know they don’t understand this. We’ve been over and over (and over) rules of politeness, lowering your voice, being appreciative, being respectful when someone is on the phone, not asking a MILLION questions and tugging on my sleeve when I’m working, cooking or trying to use the bathroom

                      Yeah, Jen. I think you’ve hit it. Boundaries. Well done!
                      “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

                      ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                      Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                      Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                      Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
                      Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: OT: Noise Control

                        But boundaries absolutely require a person to have a very healthy dose of self-respect. And that self-respect has to come from somewhere other than just feeling ok because "I am the kind of person who does, reacts, responds... dot, dot, dot..." In other words, speaking from personal experience, I'm not saying that this is you- I'm just saying- a person can sometimes, feel ok about themselves *only* when they actually *don't* have good boundaries. When they *do* enforce good boundaries, with spouse, children or outsiders, or otherwise, it can actually trigger the ol' ego crumble, which can be devastating. So we'll avoid that at all costs because it is so difficult to feel like a complete crumb for saying "no" to our kids- or anyone else. Saying no or being authoritative, or requiring respect to be shown to us, can make us worry "what if that makes me just like (insert person we do NOT want to be like.) So you'll give and give and give- until that moment when you realize it isn't being appreciated or respected or even...noticed- and that's the moment when it all comes back and you feel three years old, and you lose it. SO if you want my advice and I realize that it is internet advice so take with very large grain of salt- when and if the moment comes when you do lose it on your kids, that's the moment to be the most gentle with yourself. Take the time to explain to them (and to yourself) that you are hurting and that's why you lost it and yelled, screamed, whatever. Anger is always a defense against pain. Under it is the hurt. Apologize, but explain that their behavior hurt you, too- don't be afraid to let them see that you can be hurt.. this is a bit delicate, because you don't want to scare them or guilt them. But the right dose or just letting them see the pain instead of the anger- can trigger their *true* repentance. Then just watch what happens next, because it is beautiful. They will probably crowd around you with loving arms and tender sorrow. And a bit of repentance all the way around, and the true self-respect that comes from just knowing *love* and *forgiveness* will be born in everybody. Then rinse and repeat.
                        Last edited by Girlnumber20; 11-18-2017, 09:45 AM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: OT: Noise Control

                          Originally posted by Maria2 View Post
                          But boundaries absolutely require a person to have a very healthy dose of self-respect. And that self-respect has to come from somewhere other than just feeling ok because "I am the kind of person who does, reacts, responds... dot, dot, dot..." In other words, speaking from experience, a person can sometimes, feel ok about themselves *only* when they actually *don't* have good boundaries. When they *do* enforce good boundaries, with spouse, children or outsiders, or otherwise, it can actually trigger the ol' ego crumble, which can be devastating. So we'll avoid that at all costs because it is so difficult to feel like a complete crumb for saying "no" to our kids- or anyone else. Saying no or being authoritative, or requiring respect to be shown to us, can make us worry "what if that makes me just like (insert person we do NOT want to be like.) So you'll give and give and give- until that moment when you realize it isn't being appreciated or respected or even...noticed- and that's the moment when it all comes back and you feel three years old, and you lose it. SO if you want my advice and I realize that it is internet advice so take with very large grain of salt- when and if the moment comes when you do lose it on your kids, that's the moment to be the most gentle with yourself. Take the time to explain to them (and to yourself) that you are hurting and that's why you lost it and yelled, screamed, whatever. Anger is always a defense against pain. Under it is the hurt. Apologize, but explain that their behavior hurt you, too- don't be afraid to let them see that you can be hurt.. this is a bit delicate, because you don't want to scare them or guilt them. But the right dose or just letting them see the pain instead of the anger- can trigger their *true* repentance. Then just watch what happens next, because it is beautiful. They will probably crowd around you with loving arms and tender sorrow. And a bit of repentance all the way around, and the true self-respect that comes from just knowing *love* and *forgiveness* will be born in everybody. Then rinse and repeat.
                          I’ve done this. I do this. They might “get it” for the moment, but it rarely sticks. (Aka They’re kids.) I also don’t want to be *Maudlin Martyr Mom. (Yikes) *NOT saying what you’re advising is this! That’s just what I think of when I imagine telling my kids all about my needs and eliciting tears from them. A close relative did that in such a manipulative and passive aggressive way, it just puts me off immediately. AGAIN, NOT saying you’re advising this approach.* There has to be a happy medium. They respect my boundaries and my needs; I respect the fact that they are kids and simply cannot understand what it’s like to be a parent.

                          In the meantime, the question remains: what, specifically, to *DO*? Generally, I feel and function much better if I:
                          * get up ahead of everyone everyone else (by about an hour and a half)
                          * get out for some exercise (usually with the Big Goofy Dog in the pre-dawn moonlight)
                          * am prepared for the arrival of the family with breakfast on the table (or at least the kitchen table being set)
                          * my lesson plans are complete and we can open-and-go once school starts
                          * I have been sufficiently caffeinated and prayed up, awake AND close to Jesus
                          * my day is planned (at least loosely) and prioritized according to which fire is hottest and needs putting out fastest

                          In other words, I don’t FLIP-THE-FLIP OUT if I am *consistently proactive*. It doesn’t solve everything, but it helps me feel more in control, which helps me not sweat the small stuff, which helps me not to yell — and then have to do the walk of shame to the confessional. And control is a biggie for me (type A, overachiever, overanalyzer, slightly OCD about tidiness). I let a lot of it slide since I had kids (you should have known me when I was in my 20’s — C O N T R O L. F R E A K) but I’m never going to be one of those moms who just looks at a heap of mess and inconsistency and shrugs her shoulders. I understand that life is messy, people cannot be — should not be! — controlled, and that what you put in is not always what you get back, but SHEESH! Can I get a little more respect and a lot less lip? It would help my temper enormously.
                          “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

                          ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                          Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                          Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                          Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
                          Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: OT: Noise Control

                            Wow, Jenn — thanks for the detailed and thoughtful responses. <3

                            To all:
                            Not trying to suck up all (or even most) of the oxygen here. I just know there are other moms who struggle in this area and I want to get to the bottom of this for myself and for them. I pretty much know where to go and what to do now, but I want to explore this a little further for the sake of clarity and anyone else following along.

                            This is a complex issue for many reasons, but primarily because I have children with special needs. (AHA!) Wanna’ talk about a Boundaries Buster? That’s a big one. As many of you know, my oldest could not speak until a little after his fifth birthday and both he and his next younger sister have significant language processing issues related to ASD. Their younger brother is mildly language impaired as well.

                            I honestly did not understand the enormity of how “crossed” my boundaries were until two things happened: I experienced severe PPD after the birth of our second daughter; and she turned out to be in all ways exceptionally bright and thoroughly linguistic. The first experience knocked me down, the second continues to pick me up. Both, I now understand, were vital to my health and healing as a mom. I did not understand the superhuman amount of work I was pouring in to my children before I went through PPD. And I did not understand what a (humblingly) remarkable job I have accomplished with my older kids until I began to see how much easier it was to rear a typical child. (Yes — I realize that is a work still unfinished and that she does not stand in for every child without special needs. But the comparison among her and her siblings is impressively stark. It is the only real frame of reference I have.) As hard as it was to go through PPD (those of you who attended Sodalitas last Summer may have heard my story) I truly believe it forced me to acknowledge myself and to strengthen my boundary lines.

                            I have done boundary work — lots of boundary work. But I compartmentalized those boundaries to the harmful adults in my life. It never occurred to me that I might have unhealthy boundaries with my kids (see above: special needs!) This is something I caution other moms about too. Not from a place of superiority, but from fraternity. It’s really hard to know when to stop when there is so much that needs to be addressed. And there are few books on how to discipline children with ASD when they don’t understand a word you’re saying.

                            My kids are verbal now; they’re potty trained, reading, writing, dressing themselves; doing (low level) chores; making progress in sports and socialization. They’re doing really, really well. But this is double-pronged. They have special needs AND we homeschool. That means I’m responsible for way more than I would be if they attended traditional school. And it means we are susceptible to the adage of familiarity breeding contempt. It also means I am not familiar with how much or to what degree they can (or cannot) handle responsibility. But pushing them to a greater degree of autonomy — again, because they are so familiar with me — is taxing.

                            We have promised them that if they catch up to their grade level that they can attend a classical, Catholic private school. For my daughter, 7, that will mean catching up by one grade. For my son, 9, that will mean catching up by at least two. But if they can do it, we will gladly write the checks. It would be challenging for both of them but also would mature them a bit faster than if they remain at home. But this is just hypothetical speculation until (if) they actually accomplish this.

                            My oldest already thinks he’s capable of being a grown up. But he’s also the one who struggles the most linguistically, socially and behaviorally. Yet — ironically — he is the child who is the most capable and who is responsible for the most. He’s almost like a third parent to the baby and he helps with chores and setting the table in a wonderfully competent way. But he is also the most likely to walk away from me if I am trying to reprimand him, however calmly. He intensely dislikes being corrected. He always has.

                            Just today, he rode his bike down the street without permission (right past the neighborhood pit bull — which scares the bejeezers out of me) and was called to the front door for “a talk”. He didn’t like being reminded that he had to ask for permission to leave the house and so he rode away from me while I was speaking (calmly, I might add). What do I do? Run after him, yelling and screaming like a lunatic? What does that solve? Who does that help? How does that improve my position as a Person of Authority?

                            I went back to the front door and waited for him to return. When he did, I sent him to his father, who sent him to his room for the rest of the day. My husband’s answer to this issue is that he will understand better that fleeing confrontation is a boundary buster if he is consistently punished for crossing it. I can’t say I disagree. Still, it’s always been difficult to determine how much my son understands and how to discipline him appropriately. (Do y’all see the dilemma?)

                            As far as sensory work for myself, I don’t think that’s too far off base, which is why I build in quiet time, exercise and personal pursuits for myself a few times a day. As I said, I get up before everyone else; I nap with the baby when I am able; I send the kids to get ready for bed while I clean the kitchen (and catch up on digital things) in relative solitude; etc.. This likely boils down to pro activity, creating (and USING!) white space in my day and enforcing (and reinforcing) good boundaries.

                            Have I missed anything?
                            Last edited by Anita; 11-18-2017, 02:26 PM.
                            “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

                            ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                            Boy Wonder 13 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                            Joy Bubble 11 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 4/5 + Seton 5
                            Cuddly Cowboy 9 ...SC7/8 + MP4 + Rod & Staff 3/4/5 + Seton 4
                            Sassafras 5 ...MPK + Seton K

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: OT: Noise Control

                              Anita, you missed wine. (Just sayin') <3
                              DS12- Simply Classical mash-up of SC Spelling 1, intensive reading remediation, and MPOA 4th grade math.
                              DD10- Classic Core 4th Grade w/ 5th grade literature
                              DD8- Classic Core 2nd Grade

                              We've completed:
                              Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade
                              Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5/6

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