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    #16
    Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

    Its a great thread with lots of advice the rest of us can benefit from too. Sharing it all is awesome, so no apologies. <3

    this: "What does this have to do with stopping by 2:30PM each day? Well, a part of me is thinking that he needs the natural consequence of learning that if you mess around all day, you don't get to be done by lunch. In other words, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I am hoping he learns that if he wants to be done by early afternoon, he needs to work hard in the morning."

    Mine are like this too. No formal diagnosis, but I can pretty much tell that its the inattentive form of ADD. I think that With ADD all bets are off. They literally cannot learn this lesson, no matter how consistent you are with it. If they CAN actually learn this lesson, its probably not ADD, lol! You could try schedule lots of breaks, in between 20 minute pomodoros with a timer and noise cancelling headphones on him, if you can afford them, expect to get way less done with this one. Give him lots of movement in between every 20 minute session. Just suggestions, take and apply whatever is useful.

    ok I'll let the others finish what they were in the middle of, now, sorry for just popping in like that!
    Last edited by Girlnumber20; 10-12-2017, 11:53 AM.
    DD 12, using 6M core with 7th Grade COTR
    DS 10, using 5M core

    Comment


      #17
      Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

      A couple of thoughts.


      1. On the placement of your 9 yo. If you were to be brutally honest, where would her weakest R place her? For my youngest, I found out that it was his writing, both his ability to write in cursive AND his ability to take the time to express his ideas were lagging behind the core I had purchased for him. He is exceptionally concise (a nice way of saying that he will work hard to come up with an answer with the least number of words that must be written). I ended up doing a year with LAs from a previous level, but other subjects from his current level. Since I don't know anything about SC or dyslexia, I don't think I could comment on the exact placement.

      2. On dropping back to the 3rd grade core for your 9 yo, even if it seems "about the same". The thing is, it is *not*. The expectations are halved, giving the child the ability to catch up. Now, true story, we did a year of MP 2 language arts combined with MP 3 everything-else. Yup, it's a thing. The next year, I did 4 Newcomer instead of MP 4. I decided that the pacing and schedule was a better fit, even with the review for the first half year. I was expecting my son to do ALL the writing in the second year, even ordering fresh workbooks, and he *could*. It turned out to be a great decision. Not that you need to do any of this. I am merely demonstrating the power of a creative solution.


      3. On the distracted older son. Personally, I rarely let my kids out of sight back in those days. I would set up a work station nearby, then make the kids rotate to me in blocks. Another solution could be that he controls his own timer in a quiet location, but he must check in with you periodically. Trust but verify, right?


      Jen
      DS, 27 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

      DS, 25 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

      DD, 22 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

      DS, 12 yrs, 8th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

      All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

      Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling. Ahhh....

      Comment


        #18
        Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

        Drat. Typed something and just lost it on the library wifi. Second try: My suggestion was going to be to ask Cheryl Swope where to cut back. She, along with Howiecram and Anita, have all of your concerns in mind whereas I'm just looking at logistics mostly. Jen's comments above are very good and a creative solution sounds like a good option for you this year.
        Festina lentē,
        Jessica P

        2020-2021
        11th year HSing · 9th year MP
        @ Home, HLN, & Latin online
        11th, 9th, 6th, 3rd

        Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School

        Comment


          #19
          Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

          I agree with creative placement this year! I'm sure you don't have limitless funds available to switch too much, or do you?

          In my opinion, she would be best placed with the SC3 curriculum, with MP2 Language Arts (even spelling). Do try to keep in mind that the spelling is a 3rd grade book and the lexile scores on the books in the later part of MP2 are more on a 3rd grade level. That being said, I can understand not wanting to do this for many reasons.

          I'm thinking the cheapest thing might be to plan to only do half of the literature guides you already own. If you don't own a Classical Phonics book, I would obtain one and make sure she can read, with total fluency all the words in there. We completed AAR3 and I was amazed how NOT automatic some of the words were, even though she knew the "rules". If you find some areas where she struggles a bit, use those word lists to have a short phonics session each day. Then proceed with the literature guides. I would plan to only do it for a certain amount of time (you decide!). Stop when the time is up. It would also be best if you could obtain a copy of the book yourself (maybe the library?) to read along with her taking turns. Also, don't forget that even at the model school, Highlands Latin School, they do not write the answer to every question in the lit guides, especially at those grades. Lastly, in grades 3 and 4, the students are answering the questions with their own words, but the teacher writes the answer on the board. The students copy the answers into their guides. Tanya said this continues through part way through 4th grade. (am I right, or was that 5th grade?)

          Then, if you can, obtain a copy of the SC3 Writing, Bible edition. It suggests using The Story Bible, but I think you can make it work with the Golden Children's Bible (assuming that is the one you own). This will help her writing even further. I would consider setting the Christian Studies aside from 4th for new users for now. This can be her Christian Studies. It also lends itself more to be completed a little more independently. I do have to help some, but not all of it. (the C page and writing 2 sentences on the D page in particular - By the end of the year that D page turns into a parapraph!).

          I am happy to hear you are setting Singapore aside for a bit and concentrating on the math facts. My daughter also gets the conceptual math rather easily, but not the facts. We are meshing a few things, but keeping up with the R&S for the math fact practice.

          I'm not sure where you are at with handwriting/cursive?

          That covers, language arts, math and Christian Studies. I think you are doing something else for science. That seems to have all your bases covered at this point, for this child.
          Last edited by howiecram; 10-12-2017, 02:31 PM.
          Christine

          (2019/2020)
          DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
          DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
          DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

          Previous Years
          DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
          DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
          DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

          Comment


            #20
            Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

            Originally posted by TheAttachedMama View Post
            Math has been her one and only subject that she doesn't struggle in and actually does very well in. (Except for math facts. She understands the conceptual process almost naturally, but can't remember her math facts despite years of drill.) We actually put away the Singapore math books for a few weeks and started a math fact drill intensive. But she will probalby go back to them when we are finished.
            This is so common for dyslexics. Math facts took years to learn here, with multiple "specialized" programs used alongside the regular math curriculum.

            My favorite way to teach typing is to get it done as an "intensive" over the summer. A month or two of concentrated effort rather than short lessons spread out over a semester or year. That seems to work better here.
            Gina
            Honored & Blessed to be teaching my children at home
            (since 2001)

            DS-sophomore in college
            DD-soon-to-be college freshman!
            DD-9
            DS-8

            Comment


              #21
              Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

              Just a few random thoughts . . .

              • It took us 14 months to finish our first Cores.

              • I had to cut out quite a bit for my 9 year old using 3M, having completed MP2. We stopped GM, CS I, EGR I, LC I, and Geography -- basically anything scheduled in 4NU. We're instead focusing on longer focus/attention, neatness, and completeness. He needs a lot of help still in Mammals and Literature, but I'm okay spending the extra time on those, as I feel it is helping him prepare to do 4NU more independtly. He's also only on lesson 10 of Prima Latina, and needs lots of extra Spelling practice in order to miss only two words or less. In addition to the stripped down 3M, he joins in with K Enrichment and Christian Studies (uses his Comp & Sketchbook a lot for those two).

              Also -- my guys (except my Ker) are ALL behind according to MP Cores by one year, but I feel they are perfectly placed, and have been told by a few folks that anything past MP 10th is like icing on the cake.
              - Katherine, Army wife

              dd, 23 :: Homeschool Grad
              dd, 20 :: Homeschool Grad, University of Cincinnati
              ds, 18 :: Homeschool Senior -> USAF
              ds, 15 :: MP Greeks/Homer & Modern Biology
              dsS, 13, 12, 10 :: mostly Core 5
              ds, 8 + dd, 6 :: Core 1
              dd, 3 :: ABCs, 123s, crayons, playdough, + paint

              Comment


                #22
                Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                Originally posted by readingmother View Post
                Just a few random thoughts . . .

                • It took us 14 months to finish our first Cores.

                • I had to cut out quite a bit for my 9 year old using 3M, having completed MP2. We stopped GM, CS I, EGR I, LC I, and Geography -- basically anything scheduled in 4NU. We're instead focusing on longer focus/attention, neatness, and completeness. He needs a lot of help still in Mammals and Literature, but I'm okay spending the extra time on those, as I feel it is helping him prepare to do 4NU more independtly. He's also only on lesson 10 of Prima Latina, and needs lots of extra Spelling practice in order to miss only two words or less. In addition to the stripped down 3M, he joins in with K Enrichment and Christian Studies (uses his Comp & Sketchbook a lot for those two).

                Also -- my guys (except my Ker) are ALL behind according to MP Cores by one year, but I feel they are perfectly placed, and have been told by a few folks that anything past MP 10th is like icing on the cake.

                This sounds like such a great solution! I might offer the SC3 writing, Bible edition to continue building writing skills!

                https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...story-edition/

                Don't let the "special needs fool you!" This ties right in with the Story Bible!
                Last edited by howiecram; 10-13-2017, 02:05 PM.
                Christine

                (2019/2020)
                DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                Previous Years
                DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                  Originally posted by howiecram View Post
                  This sounds like such a great solution! I might offer the SC3 writing, Bible edition to continue building writing skills!

                  https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...story-edition/

                  Don't let the "special needs fool you!" This ties right in with the Story Bible!
                  He is already using Intro To Comp (instead of IEW Fun & Fascinating) ... would this be good in addition to that? Or would it be doubling the same work?
                  - Katherine, Army wife

                  dd, 23 :: Homeschool Grad
                  dd, 20 :: Homeschool Grad, University of Cincinnati
                  ds, 18 :: Homeschool Senior -> USAF
                  ds, 15 :: MP Greeks/Homer & Modern Biology
                  dsS, 13, 12, 10 :: mostly Core 5
                  ds, 8 + dd, 6 :: Core 1
                  dd, 3 :: ABCs, 123s, crayons, playdough, + paint

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                    Originally posted by readingmother View Post
                    He is already using Intro To Comp (instead of IEW Fun & Fascinating) ... would this be good in addition to that? Or would it be doubling the same work?
                    Hmm, I am not sure about that! I missed that you were already doing a writing program. Although, there is also grammar built in as well.
                    Christine

                    (2019/2020)
                    DD1 8/23/09 - SC5/6
                    DS2 9/1/11 - SC3,4, 5/6 combo
                    DD3 2/9/13 -SC2 to start, MP1 second semester

                    Previous Years
                    DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4’
                    DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2)
                    DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK)

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                      Originally posted by TheAttachedMama View Post


                      Subjects they are working separately in:
                      Latin -- I recently (today!) decided to split the kids apart in Latin.
                      My dyslexic daughter was REALLY struggling with Latina Christiana. She was working so hard to get the spelling down, but could not do it. (She hasn't gotten over 60% on a single quiz yet even after studying really hard. And I let her take each quiz multiple times.) My 5th grade son is doing fine. So I decided to start my 4th grade daughter in Prima Latina, and let my 5th grade sone continue in Latina Christiana. This is what I feel like needs to happen, but it just made my day even longer.

                      Math- Both kids are *very* close in math, but working at their own pace. They seem to need me to work elbow-to-elbow with them on their entire math lesson this year as their math gets more complicated. And this is also making my day very long since I have to work "in series" instead of "in parallel".

                      Spelling- This is mostly done independently. I just assign and check and administer tests, etc. I let them work at their own level and at their own pace in this sujbect.

                      Composition-Technically they are both doing fable. But my daughter again needs me to work elbow-to-elbow with her. My son is more independent. I explain, let him write independently, then just meet with him to edit/provide feedback. But that still all takes time.

                      Combined Subjects:
                      4th grade Literature - I tried having the kids take turns reading each page. But my oldest son is getting cranky listening to his younger sister read aloud because she is not the best oral reader....but she needs the practice. She has a tendency to guess and skip over larger words. Her comprehension goes way down too when she reads independently.
                      English Grammar 1
                      Cursive / Typing
                      Christian Studies 1
                      American Studies
                      US Geography
                      Astronomy
                      Greek Myths
                      Waving --- I have a son (Maybe 2) that is likely dyslexic, so I feel your angst. (hugs)

                      Latin -- do you have the PL DVD? You could allow her to watch the PL DVD, while you're working on something else with her brother. Just a thought.
                      And don't sweat starting her in PL. I have a very good friend, with middle school and high school students ..... they weren't really retaining things in FFL. For simplicity sake, they backed EVERYONE down to PL. The older boys are doing it independently, while she works with the younger set. Works just fine.

                      Math -- there's a post in here from Sarah about adjusting R&S for home use. Maybe look for that, and know that you don't have to do every.single.problem in the book. Many of us use the R&S hardback student books as consumables, which also saves time. (meaning, they don't have to write problems over again on paper) Obviously, this only works if they have room in the books.

                      Spelling, sounds like you've got this under control. We use Spelling City from time to time so that I can 'buy' time for working with another child.

                      Literature: for the reading aloud, could you shift this to the evening before for your daughter? Also, could you do an audio book, while your daughter reads along in her text? (Michelle T calls this something --- guided reading, maybe?)

                      Like Jess mentioned, I'd definitely ditch Typing. All of my 'bigs' are learning typing simply by working on the computer with games and online classes. I feel like Cursive is a better use of your time.

                      Us Geo/American studies? Is this states and capitals? You could follow the moderated plan for this --- which I think breaks it up over 2 years. Astronomy, I don't have an answer --- because I fell off the wagon here. However, you COULD pick this back up later with the Tiner Astronomy book. (we'll be doing that one later this year)

                      Greek Myths --- there's an audio version that is lovely, which would save you time. Once again, you could shift the 'listening' portion to the evening before, then the comprehension question the next day, etc. You could also do it as an oral course as Jessica mentioned, or I THINK there may be moderated plans for this class, too. Somewhere along the way during the Sodalitas Gathering, one of the MP/HLS staff mentioned that if the heavy amount of writing was difficult for students, then focus on crafting good sentences for answers in the literature class. Even my daughter who attends the Cottage School comes home with 'oral' written beside some comprehension questions.

                      Off to look at more of the other ladies' answers. I'm in the same boat as you, most days, but I have a child with motivation issues.
                      Plans for 2020-21

                      Year 10 of homeschooling with MP

                      DD1 - 25 - Small Business owner with a STOREFRONT
                      DD2 - 14 - 9th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA - equestrian
                      DS3 - 12 - 5A Cottage School - soccer
                      DS4 - 12 - 5A Cottage School -soccer
                      DD5 - 8 - 3A, Cottage School -equestrian and Irish dance
                      DS6 - 6 - MP K - home with Momma

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                        I just wanted to give everyone an update.

                        We took off last week because I think we were all burning out. We all needed to relax and regroup. It also gave me some time to think things through, reprioritize, and make some hard decisions. I found myself walking around quoting things that Anita said in my mind. LOL Namely, I am done killing myself....Make rest a priority....Things like that.

                        So this week, we implemented a new routine.

                        7AM-11AM:
                        I try to do all of the teacher dependent stuff from the guide for the entire day. For example, in Latin, I might lead them in the prayer/song and do the recitation, but I will leave the review worksheets and vocabulary drill for them to do independently. I teach the math lesson and work tricky problems, but I leave the workbook for them to do independently. I also do Greek Myths, etc. We try our best to get started at 7AM because that gives me a little bit of quite time where my newly turned 4 year old is sleeping. But if we get started late, I don't stress. I just try better the next day to wake up. I have a hard stopping time of 11AM too. So if I see the morning is getting away from me, I start prioritizing what I am going to be able to cover.

                        11 AM: Lunch break

                        11:30 AM to 1:30 PM:
                        Independent work. I seclude them in a room with a nice desk and work area in order to minimize distractions. Then they are supposed to try to finish any independent work they have left in their guide. I gave them post it notes, and have them mark anythings they don't understand. They are instructed to just move on if they can't figure it out. I use this time to take a break, workout, or have some special time with my younger. Finished or not, I "make" them stop at 1:30PM for play. They can then meet with me with any questions they marked. (I have office hours at that time. lol)

                        1:30 PM to 2:30 PM Play Break, and Tea

                        Then from 2:30 PM to 4:00 PM, Big kids do quiet reading and piano practice, and I have a marathon read-aloud session with younger and he takes a nap. They can use this time to read their bibles, read their american studies, listen to their read alouds on audiobook or just read for pleasure.
                        After I get the youngest to sleep....and after what feels like reading 50 thousand picture books....I grade the kids work they did independently. Sometimes I feel like procrastinating when it comes to grading, but I know that immediate feedback is important...so I force myself to do it.

                        Anything that needs to be fixed, I just pencil it in their guide for the next day with a little box next to it. (ex: fix math ex. 5, fix cursive lesson 4A, etc.) If something wasn't completed, I also just carry it over to the next day. My plan is if they get REALLY behind in independent work, we will take a day to catch up.

                        Anyways...this is what I am trying. We will see how it goes.
                        Last edited by TheAttachedMama; 10-25-2017, 01:03 PM.
                        Cathy aka The Attached Mama
                        2019-2020
                        DS 12, 7th Grade
                        DD 11, 6th Grade
                        DS 5, K

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                          Cathy,

                          Applause, applause. You seem to have crafted a well organized and well designed routine that fits YOUR family and circumstances. I found myself nodding while reading through your day; although I do things differently, I recognize how you are making your day fit the needs you have for yourself (energy, flow) and your kids. Getting that independent working time in there was a life saver, yeah?


                          Excellent job!




                          Jen
                          DS, 27 yrs, graduated from MIT (Aerospace)

                          DS, 25 yrs, graduated from SIU's School of Business, ENGAGED!

                          DD, 22 yrs, graduated from The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC; 2nd grade teacher.

                          DS, 12 yrs, 8th grade; attends a private classical school, 7th - 12th.

                          All homeschooled for some/all of their K-12 education.

                          Me: retired after 16 years of continuous homeschooling. Ahhh....

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: Our days feel really long: What time do you start and stop school?

                            Originally posted by TheAttachedMama View Post
                            I just wanted to give everyone an update.

                            We took off last week because I think we were all burning out. We all needed to relax and regroup. It also gave me some time to think things through, reprioritize, and make some hard decisions. I found myself walking around quoting things that Anita said in my mind. LOL Namely, I am done killing myself....Make rest a priority....Things like that.

                            So this week, we implemented a new routine.

                            7AM-11AM:
                            I try to do all of the teacher dependent stuff from the guide for the entire day. For example, in Latin, I might lead them in the prayer/song and do the recitation, but I will leave the review worksheets and vocabulary drill for them to do independently. I teach the math lesson and work tricky problems, but I leave the workbook for them to do independently. I also do Greek Myths, etc. We try our best to get started at 7AM because that gives me a little bit of quite time where my newly turned 4 year old is sleeping. But if we get started late, I don't stress. I just try better the next day to wake up. I have a hard stopping time of 11AM too. So if I see the morning is getting away from me, I start prioritizing what I am going to be able to cover.

                            11 AM: Lunch break

                            11:30 AM to 1:30 PM:
                            Independent work. I seclude them in a room with a nice desk and work area in order to minimize distractions. Then they are supposed to try to finish any independent work they have left in their guide. I gave them post it notes, and have them mark anythings they don't understand. They are instructed to just move on if they can't figure it out. I use this time to take a break, workout, or have some special time with my younger. Finished or not, I "make" them stop at 1:30PM for play. They can then meet with me with any questions they marked. (I have office hours at that time. lol)

                            1:30 PM to 2:30 PM Play Break, and Tea

                            Then from 2:30 PM to 4:00 PM, Big kids do quiet reading and piano practice, and I have a marathon read-aloud session with younger and he takes a nap. They can use this time to read their bibles, read their american studies, listen to their read alouds on audiobook or just read for pleasure.
                            After I get the youngest to sleep....and after what feels like reading 50 thousand picture books....I grade the kids work they did independently. Sometimes I feel like procrastinating when it comes to grading, but I know that immediate feedback is important...so I force myself to do it.

                            Anything that needs to be fixed, I just pencil it in their guide for the next day with a little box next to it. (ex: fix math ex. 5, fix cursive lesson 4A, etc.) If something wasn't completed, I also just carry it over to the next day. My plan is if they get REALLY behind in independent work, we will take a day to catch up.

                            Anyways...this is what I am trying. We will see how it goes.
                            I LOVE this. Very prudent, well-thought out, lots of room for everyone, less stress. Well done! Mama gets an A+

                            I truly love that you penciled in some white space for yourself as well. That’s so, so important. Now, stick to it. Bad habits die hard. Keep at this schedule for at least a month and then assess. That’s bare minimum.

                            I also highly, highly, highly recommend a 90-day off-site. Every 90 Days, take several hours at a coffe shop or the library — alone —and pore over your lesson plans, strategies, schedules, checklists and approach and assess what’s working and what’s not working. Take that time to regroup, change or hone what you need to. Make it a non-negotiable. Put it on your calendar now, let your husband know about it, arrange child care for that time and schedule around it. High level entrepreneurs practice this and (the word on the street is that it) makes a huge difference in how productive leaders are. My own 90 day off-site is coming up, I’m excited for the time to be alone with my thoughts!

                            Good job!
                            Boy Wonder: 10, MP2/SC4 (Special Needs)
                            Joy Bubble: 8, MP2 (Special Needs)
                            Snuggly Cowboy: 6, MPK
                            Sweet Lightness: 2, Reverse-Engineering Specialist

                            “Have no fear of moving into the unknown. Simply step out fearlessly knowing that I am with you, therefore no harm can befall you; all is very, very well. Do this in complete faith and confidence.”
                            ~Pope St John Paul II

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