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    How to add Greek?

    I would like Greek to be part of our homeschool curriculum. I was originally planning on using something like Rod & Staff English and then add MP Greek around third grade. Classical education and Latin never even crossed my mind because I have no experience in Latin or Greek and I also would not want to overwhelm our homeschool. So my questions are:

    1. Can I drop the Rod & Staff English and use MP Latin for grammar instruction and MP Classical Composition for writing or will we miss something?

    2. If learning Greek is our main goal, is it possible to drop Latin around seventh or eighth grade and begin to learn only Greek or do I need to continue the Latin also?

    I appreciate any answers and please clear up any misconceptions it seems I might have. Thank you!

    #2
    Re: How to add Greek?

    Originally posted by tulip00 View Post
    I would like Greek to be part of our homeschool curriculum. I was originally planning on using something like Rod & Staff English and then add MP Greek around third grade. Classical education and Latin never even crossed my mind because I have no experience in Latin or Greek and I also would not want to overwhelm our homeschool. So my questions are:

    1. Can I drop the Rod & Staff English and use MP Latin for grammar instruction and MP Classical Composition for writing or will we miss something?

    2. If learning Greek is our main goal, is it possible to drop Latin around seventh or eighth grade and begin to learn only Greek or do I need to continue the Latin also?

    I appreciate any answers and please clear up any misconceptions it seems I might have. Thank you!
    Good morning,

    1. Yes, Latin can become your primary means of English grammar instruction. We recommend using English Grammar Recitation as a supplement. Classical Composition will take care of writing beginning in 4th grade. See the top row of this page if you would like to view writing programs for younger grades.

    2. Doing Latin and Greek together is totally possible, and I hope some other forum members will chime in with how that has worked in their households. For adding Greek, you can focus on Latin first for all of its many benefits (including preparing for Greek), and then add Greek. Or, you can begin Greek as early as about 4th grade with Elementary Greek. This program is very gentle and can be done alongside a Latin program like Latina Christiana.

    I hope this at least begins to answer your questions. If you have any more, please feel free to follow up!

    Comment


      #3
      Re: How to add Greek?

      We start Greek in fourth grade. I know a lot of other families begin Greek later, starting with the Greek Alphabet book and then switching to First Form Greek (I think around 7th grade). We have opted for a different stream and begin the Greek Alphabet Book in fourth, then proceed to to Elementary Greek 1 for fifth grade. We also do it simultaneously with the Latin Forms, so First Form Latin and the Greek Alphabet in grade four. My oldest finished Second Form and Elementary Greek 1 this year. I was a little concerned that she would struggle, but the courses compliment one another. Next year we are planning Third Form Latin and Elementary Greek 2. The reason I chose this sequence is because the Forms require a lot time, we do French also, and I liked the small bite-sized chunks of daily work that is involved with Elementary Greek. I cannot stress how great Latin has been for learning Greek and grammar. However, I do think that combining this sequence with an intense program like Rod and Staff English would be a lot of extra work. Therefore, switching to MP grammar would definitely be a good idea.
      Catherine

      Dd - 13 - 8A
      Dd - 11 - 6A

      Comment


        #4
        Re: How to add Greek?

        We got a little bit of a late start with MP, but this has been our Latin & Greek path:
        5th - Greek alphabet, Latina Christiana
        6th - Elem. Greek 1, First Form Latin
        7th - Elem. Greek 2 & start Elem. Greek 3, Second Form Latin
        8th - Finish Elem. Greek 3 & First Form Greek, Third Form Latin

        We will continue with both languages next year. If I could go back in time, I would have started this sequence in 4th grade with Greek alphabet and LC, followed with each of the Elem Greek levels 1, 2, & 3 lined up with 1st, 2nd, & 3rd forms, then First Form Greek lined up with 4th Form in 8th grade. It worked well for us doing First Form Greek and Third Form Latin together content-wise though.
        Kristin - Administrator for Vita Beata (discussion classes for MP users)
        DD19; AFROTC and Aerospace Engineering Major
        DD17; Senior - doing MP Divine Comedy, Renaissance & Reformation, Cicero & Augustine, and moderating 4th Grade Literature for Vita Beata.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: How to add Greek?

          Originally posted by klwalukas View Post
          We got a little bit of a late start with MP, but this has been our Latin & Greek path:
          5th - Greek alphabet, Latina Christiana
          6th - Elem. Greek 1, First Form Latin
          7th - Elem. Greek 2 & start Elem. Greek 3, Second Form Latin
          8th - Finish Elem. Greek 3 & First Form Greek, Third Form Latin

          We will continue with both languages next year. If I could go back in time, I would have started this sequence in 4th grade with Greek alphabet and LC, followed with each of the Elem Greek levels 1, 2, & 3 lined up with 1st, 2nd, & 3rd forms, then First Form Greek lined up with 4th Form in 8th grade. It worked well for us doing First Form Greek and Third Form Latin together content-wise though.
          Was there much overlap between elementary Greek and first form Greek? My daughter did the Greek alphabet book in 7th as scheduled and wanted to continue with Greek. I ended up signing her up with a different provider for a few reasons....MPOA class conflicted, FFG wasn't quite finished, and she wanted to be able to read the Iliad in Greek. She took the course along with fourth form Latin (the other FFL) and it was very time consuming. My next one is NOT as motivated, but I still want him to take Greek so he will start this coming year in 7th with Henle 1 for a review/change of pace from second form and the Greek alphabet book. I think first form Greek will be a better fit for him, but just curious how it compared to elementary Greek. Also where do most kids go after the Croy text if they want more Greek? Still debating the Latin + Greek slow boat vs Latin until he has it more under control and can start with MPOA and move more quickly.
          Dorinda

          Plans for 2022-2023
          16th year homeschooling, 13th year with Memoria Press
          DD College Sophomore
          DS 11th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata, MPOA Divine Comedy
          DS 9th grade - Vita Beata Literature/Classical Studies
          DS 4th grade - 4A with Right Start F, Second Form Latin, AAS 5

          Comment


            #6
            Re: How to add Greek?

            I have some things to share but would love to know a little more about your situation first. How old are your students? How many kids in your homeschool/family? Does either parent have any background in Latin or Greek? Are you planning to use mainly Memoria Press or are you pulling from multiple sources?

            You've asked good questions! I look forward to hearing back.
            Festina lentē,
            Jessica P

            '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
            DS Hillsdale College freshman
            DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
            DD 8th • HLN & Home
            DS 5th • HLN & Home
            Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

            Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
            Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

            Comment


              #7
              Re: How to add Greek?

              Note: I had written a response yet it seems to never have posted when I clicked submit. Let me try this again

              First, thank you all for the helpful responses!

              Originally posted by pickandgrin View Post
              I have some things to share but would love to know a little more about your situation first. How old are your students? How many kids in your homeschool/family? Does either parent have any background in Latin or Greek? Are you planning to use mainly Memoria Press or are you pulling from multiple sources?

              You've asked good questions! I look forward to hearing back.
              My homeschool will only be one student. My son will be turning five in October. Neither one of us has a background in Latin or Greek. We only studied French and Spanish so this will be new for us. For Bible and math I will pull from other sources. I like the philosophy of Memoria Press so plan on using their materials for the other subjects or at least something that would be quite similar. Obviously I am planning a bit ahead but I want to make sure I am ready to start teaching Latin and Greek at the opportune time for my son. As I said, my main goal is for him to be strong in Greek. My motivations are for Bible reading, apologetics, textual criticism, etc... I look forward to hearing what you have to share

              Comment


                #8
                Re: How to add Greek?

                Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post
                Was there much overlap between elementary Greek and first form Greek? My daughter did the Greek alphabet book in 7th as scheduled and wanted to continue with Greek. I ended up signing her up with a different provider for a few reasons....MPOA class conflicted, FFG wasn't quite finished, and she wanted to be able to read the Iliad in Greek. She took the course along with fourth form Latin (the other FFL) and it was very time consuming. My next one is NOT as motivated, but I still want him to take Greek so he will start this coming year in 7th with Henle 1 for a review/change of pace from second form and the Greek alphabet book. I think first form Greek will be a better fit for him, but just curious how it compared to elementary Greek. Also where do most kids go after the Croy text if they want more Greek? Still debating the Latin + Greek slow boat vs Latin until he has it more under control and can start with MPOA and move more quickly.
                There is overlap between Elem. Greek and FFG. FFG covers everything in Elem Greek 1 & 2, and most of 3. Elem. Greek 3 has a few topics not covered in FFG (3rd declension, the future of "to be", there may be others). FFG takes more time, 45 minutes a day maybe, versus maybe 15 min a day for Elem. Greek. FFG along with TFL worked really well. There were grammar concepts covered in TFL that increased understanding of FFG. He would be backtracking starting Henle 1 over again after doing SFL, and I don't know if he would get to the same topics that made FFG and TFL dovetail so nicely. With the biblical Greek my daughter has done she can pull out her Septuagint and read passages, so I think she has gotten a good foundation in Koine. Where we will be going with Greek next year is to the Great Courses Greek 101 because it focuses on Homeric Greek which my daughter wants to do to translate the Iliad. The following year we plan to turn to Attic Greek. If only bible translation is your goal, then Croy would be the next step. You can certainly focus on Latin and move faster with Greek after it is mastered. For us Greek is the carrot that makes my daughter do Latin, since she loves the former more than the latter. There are many paths to the same end!
                Kristin - Administrator for Vita Beata (discussion classes for MP users)
                DD19; AFROTC and Aerospace Engineering Major
                DD17; Senior - doing MP Divine Comedy, Renaissance & Reformation, Cicero & Augustine, and moderating 4th Grade Literature for Vita Beata.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: How to add Greek?

                  Originally posted by tulip00 View Post
                  Note: I had written a response yet it seems to never have posted when I clicked submit. Let me try this again

                  First, thank you all for the helpful responses!



                  My homeschool will only be one student. My son will be turning five in October. Neither one of us has a background in Latin or Greek. We only studied French and Spanish so this will be new for us. For Bible and math I will pull from other sources. I like the philosophy of Memoria Press so plan on using their materials for the other subjects or at least something that would be quite similar. Obviously I am planning a bit ahead but I want to make sure I am ready to start teaching Latin and Greek at the opportune time for my son. As I said, my main goal is for him to be strong in Greek. My motivations are for Bible reading, apologetics, textual criticism, etc... I look forward to hearing what you have to share
                  When my oldest was that age we tried three programs: Song School Greek, the Greek Alphabetarion and Greek Alphabet Code Cracker. None of these stuck like Elementary Greek. The Alphabetarion was too advanced. The Code Cracker was fun, but it didn't stick. For the age of your child I would recommend the Song School Greek CD (depending on your musical taste!), because the songs help solidify the memorization of the Greek alphabet. We didn't use the book. But this is only basic, I would reccomend switching to MP Greek and Latin when your child reaches the appropriate age.
                  Catherine

                  Dd - 13 - 8A
                  Dd - 11 - 6A

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: How to add Greek?

                    Originally posted by klwalukas View Post
                    There is overlap between Elem. Greek and FFG. FFG covers everything in Elem Greek 1 & 2, and most of 3. Elem. Greek 3 has a few topics not covered in FFG (3rd declension, the future of "to be", there may be others). FFG takes more time, 45 minutes a day maybe, versus maybe 15 min a day for Elem. Greek. FFG along with TFL worked really well. There were grammar concepts covered in TFL that increased understanding of FFG. He would be backtracking starting Henle 1 over again after doing SFL, and I don't know if he would get to the same topics that made FFG and TFL dovetail so nicely. With the biblical Greek my daughter has done she can pull out her Septuagint and read passages, so I think she has gotten a good foundation in Koine. Where we will be going with Greek next year is to the Great Courses Greek 101 because it focuses on Homeric Greek which my daughter wants to do to translate the Iliad. The following year we plan to turn to Attic Greek. If only bible translation is your goal, then Croy would be the next step. You can certainly focus on Latin and move faster with Greek after it is mastered. For us Greek is the carrot that makes my daughter do Latin, since she loves the former more than the latter. There are many paths to the same end!
                    Thanks for the info on elementary Greek vs first form Greek. My daughter would like to translate the Iliad, but this year she completed an Attic Greek class as that was what I could find. They used the first book of Athenaze which was recommended in Latin Centered Curriculum. She took the National Greek Exam this year and earned a high honors ribbon. It was lots of work, but she loved it. She also loved that she had finally reached the point that she could read "real" Latin. Next year she will finish up the grammar and I believe in the third level they start translating portions of various authors including the Iliad. I did stumble across the great courses on Greek and I would love to hear how you like it and how the transition goes from FFG?

                    My son has not yet caught the Latin bug and is intimidated by what he has seen of his sister's Greek. I want him to learn Greek, but Biblical will likely be his preference unless he gets hooked by the Iliad this year. I think we will stick with the Greek alphabet book at a bit faster pace than the plans and try Elementary Greek later in the year if all is going well.

                    Thanks again for the reviews.
                    Dorinda

                    Plans for 2022-2023
                    16th year homeschooling, 13th year with Memoria Press
                    DD College Sophomore
                    DS 11th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata, MPOA Divine Comedy
                    DS 9th grade - Vita Beata Literature/Classical Studies
                    DS 4th grade - 4A with Right Start F, Second Form Latin, AAS 5

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: How to add Greek?

                      Originally posted by klwalukas View Post
                      There is overlap between Elem. Greek and FFG. FFG covers everything in Elem Greek 1 & 2, and most of 3. Elem. Greek 3 has a few topics not covered in FFG (3rd declension, the future of "to be", there may be others). FFG takes more time, 45 minutes a day maybe, versus maybe 15 min a day for Elem. Greek. FFG along with TFL worked really well. There were grammar concepts covered in TFL that increased understanding of FFG. He would be backtracking starting Henle 1 over again after doing SFL, and I don't know if he would get to the same topics that made FFG and TFL dovetail so nicely. With the biblical Greek my daughter has done she can pull out her Septuagint and read passages, so I think she has gotten a good foundation in Koine. Where we will be going with Greek next year is to the Great Courses Greek 101 because it focuses on Homeric Greek which my daughter wants to do to translate the Iliad. The following year we plan to turn to Attic Greek. If only bible translation is your goal, then Croy would be the next step. You can certainly focus on Latin and move faster with Greek after it is mastered. For us Greek is the carrot that makes my daughter do Latin, since she loves the former more than the latter. There are many paths to the same end!
                      If your daughter is interested in translating the Iliad you should have a look at Clyde Pharr's Homeric Greek: A Book for Beginners. It uses the Iliad as the foundation for all the lessons and has you memorize a great deal of the Iliad in Greek, albeit in small chunks.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: How to add Greek?

                        Originally posted by makinmemories
                        A possibly trivial question for those who do Latin & Greek... do you do the language lessons back to back in one chunk of time, OR... do you plan other subjects in between. Perhaps it doesn't matter? Trying to work out a loose schedule.
                        Not Trivial! Technically my ds is learning modern Greek along with his Latin so not quite the same but all our language learning is split up into different times of the day...dd always takes breaks between her languages too.

                        Others may do them back to back but it has been nice for mine to do math or science or music in between... something w/o grammar
                        DD - Graduated!
                        DS - core 12 with remediation/support
                        DD - core 9 with remediation/support
                        DS - core 7 with remediation/support

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: How to add Greek?

                          Originally posted by tulip00 View Post
                          Note: I had written a response yet it seems to never have posted when I clicked submit. Let me try this again

                          First, thank you all for the helpful responses!



                          My homeschool will only be one student. My son will be turning five in October. Neither one of us has a background in Latin or Greek. We only studied French and Spanish so this will be new for us. For Bible and math I will pull from other sources. I like the philosophy of Memoria Press so plan on using their materials for the other subjects or at least something that would be quite similar. Obviously I am planning a bit ahead but I want to make sure I am ready to start teaching Latin and Greek at the opportune time for my son. As I said, my main goal is for him to be strong in Greek. My motivations are for Bible reading, apologetics, textual criticism, etc... I look forward to hearing what you have to share
                          Sorry I never responded after you answered my questions! This thread popped back up and I smacked my head. Sorry about that one.

                          In our house, this is how it's unfolded with my oldest:

                          Third: Prima (I was a total wimp...should have put him in LC)
                          Fourth: Latina Christitiana
                          Fifth: First Form
                          Sixth: Second Form & Greek Alphabet --we did all this at home without help through this level
                          Seventh: Third Form (MPOA) & First Form Greek (used DVDs at home)
                          Eighth, this fall: Fourth Form (MPOA) & Cory, year one (at home)

                          First Form Greek has been "easy" compared to Latin which is getting harder at this level. He hasn't expressed interest in moving to Attic/Homeric Greek, but I've told him we are going to go at least First Form Greek, and two years of Croy. After that, we might consider online courses in Attic/Homeric for reading Homer. He DID ask for the Iliad in Greek and English for his birthday, so that's a good sign. I like the method of HLS where Greek is not optional in middle school, but becomes an elective in high school simply due to time considerations. My hope is that my kids will continue. We'll see what happens with life and education.

                          For my next student, she's a year ahead of him in the sequence because she did Prima in Second. In sixth grade she'll get Greek Alphabet with Third Form instead.

                          In my experience, there's been no need to do the Greek prep with another program because it comes easily after all the Latin. You are certainly welcome to marinate in it over the years which seems to be a popular idea among those of you with the passion to go there early! I'm just here to report that I think you can dive in deeply at older ages and make up all the time just as quickly.

                          My advice is to prioritize Latin and do it really well. That's a great foundation for every additional language you want to pursue. May they be many!
                          Festina lentē,
                          Jessica P

                          '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
                          DS Hillsdale College freshman
                          DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
                          DD 8th • HLN & Home
                          DS 5th • HLN & Home
                          Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

                          Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
                          Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: How to add Greek?

                            We also prioritize Latin. We start every morning doing Latin, Math, Greek, Spelling and French. I find that the things we leave to later in the day are sometimes not done with as much attention to detail. When I left French until later in the day we wouldn't always get to it.
                            Catherine

                            Dd - 13 - 8A
                            Dd - 11 - 6A

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: How to add Greek?

                              Catherine,
                              Do you live in a predominately French-speaking area? It must be so interesting to have multiple modern & classical languages going!
                              Festina lentē,
                              Jessica P

                              '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
                              DS Hillsdale College freshman
                              DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
                              DD 8th • HLN & Home
                              DS 5th • HLN & Home
                              Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

                              Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
                              Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

                              Comment

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