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    Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

    We are seriously considering switching to Memoria next year. (I will have 5th grader, 3rd grader, and kindergartener) We have been using Teaching Textbooks for the older 2. I thought about just continuing with teaching textbooks if we switched to Memoria, but my kids aren't nuts about it (really, would they like any math program though?) & wouldn't mind a switch. I am concerned about "holes" in what they have been taught by switching math programs. (I've always heard to avoid switching math programs as much as possible) Am I overthinking this, has anybody switched from Teaching Textbooks to Rod & Staff & how did that go? (Currently my 2nd grader is on Math 3 & my 4th grader is on Math 5)
    Lutheran (LCMS) Mom to 4:

    2017-2018
    DD (10 yo)- MP 5th
    DD (8 yo)- MP 3rd
    DS (6 yo)- MP K
    DS (3 yo)- Just getting read to & hopefully picking up something from the olders!

    #2
    Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

    Hello,

    The kindergarten Rod & Staff begins with how to form numbers correctly and develops number sense ending with mastery of addition and subtraction facts through the 7 family. It is actually the first half of the Rod and Staff first grade program that is covered. The third grade Rod & Staff assumes you have mastered the addition and subtraction facts and begins working on speed of those. It is the year in which multiplication and division are formally taught, so it is a good place to begin. Should your child need practice with addition and subtraction facts take a few weeks and focus on development of those first. This can be accomplished with flashcards or any of the free math fact apps online. I am sure you will get plenty of advice from those who have switched from the program you used.

    Blessings,
    Michelle T

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

      Originally posted by KDOCK5 View Post
      We are seriously considering switching to Memoria next year. (I will have 5th grader, 3rd grader, and kindergartener) We have been using Teaching Textbooks for the older 2. I thought about just continuing with teaching textbooks if we switched to Memoria, but my kids aren't nuts about it (really, would they like any math program though?) & wouldn't mind a switch. I am concerned about "holes" in what they have been taught by switching math programs. (I've always heard to avoid switching math programs as much as possible) Am I overthinking this, has anybody switched from Teaching Textbooks to Rod & Staff & how did that go? (Currently my 2nd grader is on Math 3 & my 4th grader is on Math 5)
      We switched to TT after my daughter and I were at an impasse in math. For the record, we'd used MP and R&S from the beginning of our homeschooling (6 years strong, starting in K).

      TT helped us over a hump, but I have to be honest and tell you that we are moving back to R&S in the fall. In some areas TT moves too fast for my taste, and there's not enough review in certain areas. If you look at the TT website, the recommended set up is read the lesson in the text book, listen to the lecture, then do the practice problems and assignment, either on the computer, or on paper (the workbook). I don't know anyone who does this set up --- we just pop in the DVD and off we go. The ease of use is one of the reasons we used it -- I can help someone else while my daughter is doing math, run the dishwasher, change a diaper, etc. It helps me to multitask.

      If you pull out TT5 and R&S 5, the same concepts are taught, but in a different order. Where R&S really shines, is solidifying the basic facts that kids need to do higher operations quickly and accurately. There's a fantastic article that Martin Cothran wrote about arithmetic .... it reminds me of my grandmother, and mother in law. They can run circles around some people with 'ciphering' --- because they learned arithmetic so very well.

      I don't think you'll have any problems at all. R&S is entirely scripted, so it's easy as pie to teach. There's no bells and whistles. I think there's a placement test somewhere --- but I think I'd start off in R&S 5. The first few chapters are reviewing concepts, so you'd know pretty quickly if it was too much or if you had gaps.
      Plans for 2021-22

      Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

      DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
      DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
      DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
      DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
      DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
      DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

        Plus compared to almost everything else available, R&S Math is as cheap as dirt. If you find you have gaps, you can just buy the previous student book for about $15 and hit the sections that are weaknesses. BTW, many of us (except a few who are absolutely scandalized by the idea...cough--Mary) use the R&S student hardback books as consumable and let the kids write in them to the extent possible. My kids keep a quadrille notebook nearby for the problems that require more space like long multiplication and long division. If you don't need the hardback student book for record keeping at the year's end, they are great fuel for a bonfire.

        HTH!
        Festina lentē,
        Jessica P

        2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
        DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
        DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
        DD 7th • HLN & Home
        DS 4th • HLN & Home
        Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

        Teaching TFL and co-directing @
        Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

          Originally posted by DiannaKennedy View Post
          We switched to TT after my daughter and I were at an impasse in math. For the record, we'd used MP and R&S from the beginning of our homeschooling (6 years strong, starting in K).

          TT helped us over a hump, but I have to be honest and tell you that we are moving back to R&S in the fall. In some areas TT moves too fast for my taste, and there's not enough review in certain areas. If you look at the TT website, the recommended set up is read the lesson in the text book, listen to the lecture, then do the practice problems and assignment, either on the computer, or on paper (the workbook). I don't know anyone who does this set up --- we just pop in the DVD and off we go. The ease of use is one of the reasons we used it -- I can help someone else while my daughter is doing math, run the dishwasher, change a diaper, etc. It helps me to multitask.

          If you pull out TT5 and R&S 5, the same concepts are taught, but in a different order. Where R&S really shines, is solidifying the basic facts that kids need to do higher operations quickly and accurately. There's a fantastic article that Martin Cothran wrote about arithmetic .... it reminds me of my grandmother, and mother in law. They can run circles around some people with 'ciphering' --- because they learned arithmetic so very well.

          I don't think you'll have any problems at all. R&S is entirely scripted, so it's easy as pie to teach. There's no bells and whistles. I think there's a placement test somewhere --- but I think I'd start off in R&S 5. The first few chapters are reviewing concepts, so you'd know pretty quickly if it was too much or if you had gaps.
          I agree TT moves too fast through some concepts. We are doing TT 3 with my 2nd grader (I have always heard it is about a grade behind, but I'm not so sure on some concepts). Right now she is doing multiplication, and she's just not ready for it. They present the answers to a set of facts, then start questioning them on it (no drilling). I think right now, they are just trying to introduce the concept, but I gave her a multiplication chart for her to refer to. Other concepts, she does fine with.....money, perimeter, adding 2-3 digit numbers. And, like you said....I know no one either who reads the workbook before putting the disc in. We always just use the disc, rarely look at the workbooks. I do love how they can do it on their own & that the program grades them & keeps a record of their scores. We use xtra math for drilling, but I'm not seeing a huge progress in her on this. VERY slow improvement. She does fine, but is slow to improve her score.

          But, what you said about your grandmother & mother-in-law are the exact reasons I am drawn to rod and staff. My father-in-law is the same way, can "cipher" (ha) as you said so much quicker than anyone being taught the "new math." I know drilling is not fun, but I really do believe it is necessary! I did notice how affordable rod and staff is. TT is not cheap, & I already have TT 3, 4 & 5, so I hate not to use it! (I have 4 kids, so I could use TT with all of them) Switching curriculum can just be expensive....I have Sonlight Pre 3/4, Pre 4/5, Core A, Core B, & Core C also...this switch would be costly for me, but (I posted earlier), we are pretty much not using Sonlight for the olders bc of conflicting biblical views & being weak in LA, among other reasons. I guess no one ever said home schooling was cheap, but I just don't want to make too many costly mistakes.

          Trying to figure it all out!! Thank you for comments. Very, very helpful!
          Lutheran (LCMS) Mom to 4:

          2017-2018
          DD (10 yo)- MP 5th
          DD (8 yo)- MP 3rd
          DS (6 yo)- MP K
          DS (3 yo)- Just getting read to & hopefully picking up something from the olders!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

            Also, remember you can sell some of those old, unused things (once you detach emotionally from it, which I know can be hard)!
            Festina lentē,
            Jessica P

            2021-2022 • 12th year HSing • 10th year MP
            DS 12th • HLN, Latin online, DE math/sci - Headed to Hillsdale College next fall
            DD 10th • HLN, Latin online
            DD 7th • HLN & Home
            DS 4th • HLN & Home
            Me • Memoria College, this summer: MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

            Teaching TFL and co-directing @
            Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

              I have never used TT. If you don't want to sell yet, maybe you could use it for summer review. Different explanations and ways of wording problems can be helpful.
              Dorinda

              Plans for 2021-2022
              15th year homeschooling, 12th year with Memoria Press
              DD College Freshman
              DS 10th grade - Lukeion Latin and Greek, Vita Beata Greek Dramas
              DS 8th grade - Vita Beata Literature
              DS 3rd grade - Vita Beata Literature, Right Start F, First Form Latin

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                Originally posted by KDOCK5 View Post

                I guess no one ever said home schooling was cheap, but I just don't want to make too many costly mistakes.
                Do what I do. Whenever you start to think about how homeschool is not quite cheap as we would like it to be... just look at the prices for a local private school. You'll feel better about your budget quite quickly! In that regard, I'm WELL under budget. Even if it is a faux budget that we would never consider!
                Margaret of GA, in west TN – Enginerd’s wife & Mama

                Trekking along at a student self-pace...
                DD Summer 2009 · 7th
                DD Summer 2011 · SC
                DS Summer 2014 · 2nd
                DD Summer 2017 · Preschool/SC
                DS Autumn 2019 • Tot-preschool
                MP, Seton, Sonlight, Beau. Feet, Notgrass, IEW, Saxon

                Memoria Scholé Academy 2011-2022
                Blog: Creative Madness Mama
                @ CherryBlossomMJ

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                  Originally posted by Mom2mthj View Post
                  I have never used TT. If you don't want to sell yet, maybe you could use it for summer review. Different explanations and ways of wording problems can be helpful.
                  This is basically what I am going to be doing. I have levels 3-6, so we will be using them for review/prep/break from R&S. Does that make sense?
                  Plans for 2021-22

                  Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

                  DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
                  DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
                  DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                  DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
                  DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
                  DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                    Originally posted by KDOCK5 View Post
                    I agree TT moves too fast through some concepts. We are doing TT 3 with my 2nd grader (I have always heard it is about a grade behind, but I'm not so sure on some concepts). Right now she is doing multiplication, and she's just not ready for it. They present the answers to a set of facts, then start questioning them on it (no drilling). I think right now, they are just trying to introduce the concept, but I gave her a multiplication chart for her to refer to. Other concepts, she does fine with.....money, perimeter, adding 2-3 digit numbers. And, like you said....I know no one either who reads the workbook before putting the disc in. We always just use the disc, rarely look at the workbooks. I do love how they can do it on their own & that the program grades them & keeps a record of their scores. We use xtra math for drilling, but I'm not seeing a huge progress in her on this. VERY slow improvement. She does fine, but is slow to improve her score.

                    But, what you said about your grandmother & mother-in-law are the exact reasons I am drawn to rod and staff. My father-in-law is the same way, can "cipher" (ha) as you said so much quicker than anyone being taught the "new math." I know drilling is not fun, but I really do believe it is necessary! I did notice how affordable rod and staff is. TT is not cheap, & I already have TT 3, 4 & 5, so I hate not to use it! (I have 4 kids, so I could use TT with all of them) Switching curriculum can just be expensive....I have Sonlight Pre 3/4, Pre 4/5, Core A, Core B, & Core C also...this switch would be costly for me, but (I posted earlier), we are pretty much not using Sonlight for the olders bc of conflicting biblical views & being weak in LA, among other reasons. I guess no one ever said home schooling was cheap, but I just don't want to make too many costly mistakes.

                    Trying to figure it all out!! Thank you for comments. Very, very helpful!
                    I'm probably not going to sell my upper levels YET --- (4,5,6), but use them as prep/review/summer math. I don't plan to use it with my two youngest coming up the ranks.
                    The nice thing about TT is the resale value is pretty good. When you're ready to offload it, you should recoup a good deal of the cost. They are moving eventually to web based format (no discs), so you might want to sell it before then.
                    Plans for 2021-22

                    Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

                    DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
                    DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
                    DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                    DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
                    DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
                    DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                      Originally posted by CherryBlossomMJ View Post
                      Do what I do. Whenever you start to think about how homeschool is not quite cheap as we would like it to be... just look at the prices for a local private school. You'll feel better about your budget quite quickly! In that regard, I'm WELL under budget. Even if it is a faux budget that we would never consider!
                      Very true!! I have 4 kids, I am well under budget too. I do try to remind myself of that, but like you guys said, emotionally detaching from some curriculum is hard (why is that!?). . Also, I try to remind myself the fact that I have the option to switch curriculum at all is something to be thankful for. If the kids were in private or public & the way they were being taught was not working for them, there would be nothing I could do outside of tutoring, or lots of extra hours at home working with them.

                      I finally got a chance to read the article by Martin Cothran ("Why Johnny Can't Add")......such a great article!! Thanks for sharing that with me. It made so much sense to me. My thoughts exactly on memorization of facts (knowing facts without thinking) in order to be able to do higher level math.

                      Good suggestions to keep the TT that I have & use as review if needed. For those of you who have used TT & Rod & Staff, what would you say are the differences between the two?
                      Lutheran (LCMS) Mom to 4:

                      2017-2018
                      DD (10 yo)- MP 5th
                      DD (8 yo)- MP 3rd
                      DS (6 yo)- MP K
                      DS (3 yo)- Just getting read to & hopefully picking up something from the olders!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                        Originally posted by KDOCK5 View Post

                        I finally got a chance to read the article by Martin Cothran ("Why Johnny Can't Add")......such a great article!! Thanks for sharing that with me. It made so much sense to me. My thoughts exactly on memorization of facts (knowing facts without thinking) in order to be able to do higher level math.

                        Good suggestions to keep the TT that I have & use as review if needed. For those of you who have used TT & Rod & Staff, what would you say are the differences between the two?
                        Although I did not use Teaching Textbooks at the elementary school level, my research indicates that it is user-friendly, but not as thorough as R&S. Using TT is less likely to lead to mastery of arithmetic, which is the goal of K-6 math (as you have noted throughout this thread). I think you are on the right track to switch to R&S, build fluency and mastery, and use TT for summer enrichment (?) or sell later.

                        On a personal note, I discovered and switched to R&S math when my children were the same grades as yours. My 5th grader began with the grade 3 book (because that is the point where his skills were weak) and worked on math year-round through 8th grade, so that he was ready for algebra in 9th. Your mileage may vary, but wanted to mention this. R&S is an excellent program, and you are correct about the necessity to master math facts during elementary years.
                        Last edited by Cindy in Indy; 05-02-2017, 05:11 AM.
                        Cindy Davis
                        Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                        ds-26 college graduate: independent young adult
                        ds-24 college graduate: 3rd year med school
                        dd-22 college graduate: working as a registered nurse

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Concerns about switch from Teaching Textbooks math to Rod & Staff?

                          Originally posted by KDOCK5 View Post
                          Good suggestions to keep the TT that I have & use as review if needed. For those of you who have used TT & Rod & Staff, what would you say are the differences between the two?
                          As I mentioned before, I think TT moves at a faster pace, and there's not as much review as with R&S. They cover the same concepts, but in different orders, and I don't think TT is as thorough.
                          Plans for 2021-22

                          Year 11 of homeschooling with MP

                          DD1 - 26 - Small Business owner with 2 locations
                          DD2 - 15 - 10th grade - HLS Cottage School/MPOA/True North Academy/Vita Beata - equestrian
                          DS3 - 13 -6A Cottage School - soccer/tennis -dyslexia and dysgraphia
                          DS4 - 13 - 6A Cottage School -soccer -auditory processing disorder
                          DD5 - 9 - 4A, Cottage School/MPOA -equestrian
                          DS6 - 7 - MPK - first time at the Cottage School this fall!

                          Comment

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