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    CC Fable Reduction

    We are on Lesson 7 of Fable and working on reduction. I feel like he's nailed reducing the story. However, so far this year, all of his final drafts have been based on the 1st paraphrase, rewriting the story with the figures of description added. This week I'd like him to try to write his final paper based on the reduction. I'm unsure, though, how to do this! Will it look like what he already wrote? Should it be reduced further, or is it taking the reduction and adding details back in?

    I'm at a loss here!
    Tracy
    My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
    MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

    #2
    Re: CC Fable Reduction

    My daughter usually always chooses the first paraphrase also. However, when we talk through begginning the final draft while using the reduction paraphrase, based on what the TM says for final draft guidelines, she checks for "omissions"..which I take as adding those reductions back in. The reduction is stripping the cable to barebones..which is not what the final draft should be. This is what I have concluded at least
    Katie

    DS 17: Senior!
    DD 14: 10th
    DD 10: 6th
    Twin DD's 8: 3rd
    Mix of MP, Co-op, TAN and traveling the U.S

    Comment


      #3
      Re: CC Fable Reduction

      Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
      We are on Lesson 7 of Fable and working on reduction. I feel like he's nailed reducing the story. However, so far this year, all of his final drafts have been based on the 1st paraphrase, rewriting the story with the figures of description added. This week I'd like him to try to write his final paper based on the reduction. I'm unsure, though, how to do this! Will it look like what he already wrote? Should it be reduced further, or is it taking the reduction and adding details back in?

      I'm at a loss here!
      Good Afternoon,

      Great question! When the student creates a final draft, it should reflect the paraphrase option they chose. So, if the student uses Paraphrase 2 as their model for the final draft, then it should be a reduced retelling of the original fable. Saying that, there really should not be omissions in a reduced retelling. If the fable is reduced to the point that there are omissions, the student should reassess their 2nd Paraphrase.


      Best Regards,

      Ryan Weston
      Memoria Press
      [email protected]

      Comment


        #4
        Re: CC Fable Reduction

        Thanks so much to you both!

        So when we reduce the story in Paraphrase 2, we are really taking out some descriptive language (things like adjectives and adverbs) and some redundant phrasing. The meat of the story's still there. So for the final draft, he's taking what he wrote for the paraphrase and making sure he is simply telling the story without omitting anything that would cause the story not to make sense. If his paraphrase 2 was done well, then his final draft would look very similar? I guess that was my concern. I'm used to the final draft being a lot different than the paraphrase, and it seems like this wouldn't be the case here.
        Tracy
        My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
        MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

        Comment


          #5
          Re: CC Fable Reduction

          I suppose I was misunderstanding how to use the reduction as a final draft all this time. Whoops! Thanks for the clarification!
          Katie

          DS 17: Senior!
          DD 14: 10th
          DD 10: 6th
          Twin DD's 8: 3rd
          Mix of MP, Co-op, TAN and traveling the U.S

          Comment


            #6
            Re: CC Fable Reduction

            Originally posted by GeorgiaMom View Post
            Thanks so much to you both!

            So when we reduce the story in Paraphrase 2, we are really taking out some descriptive language (things like adjectives and adverbs) and some redundant phrasing. The meat of the story's still there. So for the final draft, he's taking what he wrote for the paraphrase and making sure he is simply telling the story without omitting anything that would cause the story not to make sense. If his paraphrase 2 was done well, then his final draft would look very similar? I guess that was my concern. I'm used to the final draft being a lot different than the paraphrase, and it seems like this wouldn't be the case here.
            Correct, the final draft should closely reflect the paraphrase he chose to use. It should be cleaned up and corrected, but if his paraphrase was very well written, it may not change much at all.


            Best,
            --Ryan

            Comment


              #7
              Re: CC Fable Reduction

              Originally posted by rweston View Post
              Correct, the final draft should closely reflect the paraphrase he chose to use. It should be cleaned up and corrected, but if his paraphrase was very well written, it may not change much at all.


              Best,
              --Ryan
              Thanks so much Ryan! I feel ready to forge ahead!
              Tracy
              My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
              MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

              Comment


                #8
                Re: CC Fable Reduction

                So I have a reluctant writer, who CAN do very well. He just often would rather work quickly and carelessly than do work that makes him proud. The bottom line is he can think of many other things he'd rather be doing.

                We are on lesson 9 and this is the first descriptive paraphrase he told me he enjoyed. He liked the topothesia and topographia. I think the creativity required by the descriptive paraphrase stresses him out and gives him a brain freeze! I have to talk him through the descriptions and brainstorming in very minute detail to get his brain juices flowing. I, in turn,have a difficult time grading because I have trouble managing my expectations.

                That said, he would ALWAYS chose the non-descriptive paraphrase over the descriptive paraphrase for the final if I let him. I don't always let him choose because I want him to learn to tackle those obstacles and face challenges. However, is this fostering his writer's anxiety?

                On the other hand, the boy can talk!! His imagination in conversation is hilarious and ridiculous. It's the putting it on paper that kills his ideas.

                Suggestions?
                Rae

                DS12- SFL, Elem Greek II, CC III

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: CC Fable Reduction

                  Originally posted by Rae View Post
                  So I have a reluctant writer, who CAN do very well. He just often would rather work quickly and carelessly than do work that makes him proud. The bottom line is he can think of many other things he'd rather be doing.

                  We are on lesson 9 and this is the first descriptive paraphrase he told me he enjoyed. He liked the topothesia and topographia. I think the creativity required by the descriptive paraphrase stresses him out and gives him a brain freeze! I have to talk him through the descriptions and brainstorming in very minute detail to get his brain juices flowing. I, in turn,have a difficult time grading because I have trouble managing my expectations.

                  That said, he would ALWAYS chose the non-descriptive paraphrase over the descriptive paraphrase for the final if I let him. I don't always let him choose because I want him to learn to tackle those obstacles and face challenges. However, is this fostering his writer's anxiety?

                  On the other hand, the boy can talk!! His imagination in conversation is hilarious and ridiculous. It's the putting it on paper that kills his ideas.

                  Suggestions?
                  I wish I had some great suggestions for you, but I can empathize! My son is very similar in that he will do that narration (where he simply tells me the story out loud using his outline) with a lot of gusto and creativity, but when it comes time to write it down, forget it. It's the realization that he has to spend time writing that makes him lose interest in making the story as creative as he did when he told it the first time. Now he's just trying to get through it as quickly as possible, because he doesn't want to sit and write that long. The irony here...as I write this he is sitting at the kitchen counter WRITING a story!

                  Since he's a good talker...maybe record him and let him listen to how interesting he can make the story when he tries. Perhaps his rough draft could simply be transcribing, maybe not word for word, what he said in his narration. He can get all his creative thoughts out without necessarily having to THINK them as he writes them. Then the work can be on polishing the rough draft, which is always less daunting for us.

                  I hope lots of people chime in with some good ideas for you. Best of luck to you as you continue!
                  Tracy
                  My boys: JR, Riley, and Jack
                  MP 8A, 7A, and MP2

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: CC Fable Reduction

                    Oooooooh, that's good-transcribing his own ideas! I think he'd get a kick out of himself. It's definitely worth a shot.
                    Rae

                    DS12- SFL, Elem Greek II, CC III

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: CC Fable Reduction

                      Rae,
                      It sounds like you have a great guy on your hands who is going through a phase of learning that is very, very common. This is actually why MP stresses so much writing in the curriculum - because for most of us it does not come naturally. And the beginning of anything new is usually the most frustrating (at least with my kids it always is!)

                      I think you have a good perspective of not letting him slide on the things he does not like. I would just follow that up with the understanding that this reluctance is exactly the reason for the program being written the way it is. The beauty of it is that they are never asked for twenty descriptions at a time - only a couple. They have to work through it, but it is just a small part of their day.

                      The ability to think a thought in your head, compose it into a decent phrase or sentence, and then write it down is a very important skill, and for this age, it usually is a struggle.

                      ETA: It is a lot like that stage when a child is learning to read and he has trouble holding more than a word or two in his memory because it takes so much work to sound things out. You have to keep working on it to build up to the skill of reading an entire sentence and knowing what it said.

                      Encourage him to keep at it. Transcribing would be okay as an enrichment idea, to capture some of his fantastic stories, but it will not help develop the skill of holding his own thought in his mind and writing it down the same way. And then don't worry - it is the slow and steady progress that helps these skills develop.

                      AMDG,
                      Sarah
                      Last edited by KF2000; 01-19-2017, 07:47 AM.
                      2020-2021
                      16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                      DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                      DS, 17
                      DD, 15
                      DD, 13
                      DD, 11
                      DD, 9
                      DD, 7
                      +DS+
                      DS, 2

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: CC Fable Reduction

                        Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                        Rae,
                        It sounds like you have a great guy on your hands who is going through a phase of learning that is very, very common. This is actually why MP stresses so much writing in the curriculum - because for most of us it does not come naturally. And the beginning of anything new is usually the most frustrating (at least with my kids it always is!)

                        I think you have a good perspective of not letting him slide on the things he does not like. I would just follow that up with the understanding that this reluctance is exactly the reason for the program being written the way it is. The beauty of it is that they are never asked for twenty descriptions at a time - only a couple. They have to work through it, but it is just a small part of their day.

                        The ability to think a thought in your head, compose it into a decent phrase or sentence, and then write it down is a very important skill, and for this age, it usually is a struggle.

                        ETA: It is a lot like that stage when a child is learning to read and he has trouble holding more than a word or two in his memory because it takes so much work to sound things out. You have to keep working on it to build up to the skill of reading an entire sentence and knowing what it said.

                        Encourage him to keep at it. Transcribing would be okay as an enrichment idea, to capture some of his fantastic stories, but it will not help develop the skill of holding his own thought in his mind and writing it down the same way. And then don't worry - it is the slow and steady progress that helps these skills develop.

                        AMDG,
                        Sarah
                        My guy is great!

                        Maybe on some occassions I could record the brainstorming session, let him listen to it played back, and write his ideas down for later use. I see what you're saying about holding the thought, though. I don't think I would ever have him directly transcribe a narration.

                        I appreciate the feedback because we still have the hardest time with composition.

                        Also, maybe I am asking too much. Is one descriptive example per type of description sufficient? For example, if the description is topographia, is one descriptive phrase or sentence of that type sufficient? I often expect to see or hope to see some elaboration or follow up throughout the story. DS is satisfied by a few good adjectives or a phrase in one single sentence. I've tried to read old threads to get a better grip on managing my composition expectations, but I'm still struggling. Obviously, I should attend teacher training!
                        Rae

                        DS12- SFL, Elem Greek II, CC III

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: CC Fable Reduction

                          Rae,

                          At 9 years old, he is still in the phase where modeling is really important. If he is having trouble with a particular type of writing, I would go to a modeling approach. Here is what I used to do with my 8/9 year old who was having a hard time with writing: I would have him tell me what he wanted to say and I would write it down (whatever he said, the way he said it). Then we would go back and review it for clarity (obviously the spelling/punctuation/capitalization were fine, lol) marking the rough draft as we went. I would guide him through these edits by asking him things like "Is there a way we could put these thoughts in one sentence?" or "How could we say this more clearly?". Just remember that he's 9 -- this isn't going to sound like anyone older than that and it's not supposed to. I had to remind myself of this often as I'm a marketing copywriter! After the edits, he would take the marked rough draft and write out the final draft. This copywork-type step will still train him to hold a sentence in memory.

                          We usually did this over 2-3 days: 1) rough draft, 2) edits, 3) final draft.

                          We didn't have to do this for too long. Now, at age 10, he can write a good paragraph on his own with me just double-checking his punctuation/grammar/spelling during the proofreading stage. No anxiety, no stress. The modeling showed him how to write well and helped build his confidence in his own ideas so that he could grow into independence.

                          ETA: I just started teaching the Fable class at our co-op and when we do the paraphrase portion, I write the name of each figure of description on the board and ask which part of the story would be a good place for that particular type. I then write "Act I" or "Act II" as they look at their outlines and tell me which one(s) it could go in. Sometimes there is only one place, sometimes there are two or three, but it gives them a map to use when we write the actual paraphrase. At home, this could be done a piece of paper.

                          HTH!
                          Last edited by jen1134; 01-19-2017, 07:15 PM.
                          Jennifer
                          Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

                          2022
                          DS18: Graduated and living his dream in the automotive trades
                          DS17: MP, MPOA, headed to his favorite liberal arts college this fall
                          DS15: MP, MPOA
                          DS13: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
                          DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
                          DD10: SC3
                          DD7: MPK

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: CC Fable Reduction

                            Jennifer, that makes me feel a lot better because you've described what I try to do. His form is decent so I guess the biggest issue is his reluctance to do that brainstorm step without me. And it sounds like THAT is pretty normal. You've helped me spot some progress, though. I no longer write his whole rough draft as he dictates it to me. I just jot down his brainstormed pieces of description.

                            I'm guessing from the feedback here that we are on track. Creative writing just isn't his favorite thing.

                            Thanks to all!
                            Rae

                            DS12- SFL, Elem Greek II, CC III

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: CC Fable Reduction

                              And yes, Rae, as far as I know, and what I expect with my children is just one paraphrase per descriptive item (I am blanking on what we call them - terrible head cold). Just one each!

                              AMDG,
                              Sarah
                              2020-2021
                              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                              DS, 17
                              DD, 15
                              DD, 13
                              DD, 11
                              DD, 9
                              DD, 7
                              +DS+
                              DS, 2

                              Comment

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