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    Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

    How have you used the 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade Memoria Press literature with a dyslexic or struggling reader? What did your reading lessons look like? How did you help your child through the text particularly when they were struggling with many words on each page? How often did you have the child read aloud to you?

    Is it better for a dyslexic or struggling reader to read a grade below or stay on grade level to strengthen decoding skills? Are there certain books/lit guides within each grade level mentioned above that are more dyslexic-friendly or easier for a struggling reader?

    Thank you.

    #2
    Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

    My 12 yr old 7th grader is mildly dyslexic. She did not start reading much at all till age 7 (late first grade) and we spent second grade finishing up her phonics readers (we used Little Angel Readers. MP First Start Reading was not out yet). In 3rd we used MP 2nd grade lit (actually we used the full 2nd grade curriculum subbing math and spelling. ) We started with Sarah Noble (this was before MP added easier books at the start of 2nd) and she could only read one page at a time and then I would read a page. It was slow going but we did it. I also wrote her verbal answers down and she copied them into her workbook. She found Popper too hard but MP has since changed that to a later grade. In 4th grade she did MP 3rd and did well with us alternating pages read. In 5th she did MP 4th. This was before they created the slower curriculum so that 4th was what is now 5th- the Lion, Witch and Wardrobe etc. I had her read the books alone and she did fine. She could handle a chapter a day which is the pace MP goes. Anymore would have been too much. She is now in 7th doing 7th (since MP renumbered thier grades she is now "on grade" when she used to be a "grade behind") and doing surprisingly well with Trojan War. In 5-7 she would read alone but we do the workbook together so she can discuss and ask questions about anything she didn't get. Her reading seems ok now. She reads slowly and it can't read in a loud room but she can read. Her spelling is just now getting to be independent but she still struggles with spelling a bit. We also have to review the vocabulary a lot because her memory of abstract concepts isn't too good. I also giver her a list of all vocabulary words on the quizzes that just expect the kids to recall what their words were. I find that to be way too hard even for typical kids much less those who struggle verbally.
    I must say I think MP has been tremendous for my dyslexic. With the slow pace of the lit guides she can keep up with the amount of reading and with the very indepth study of each book she has learned to actually enjoy good stories. She still doesn't enjoy reading on her own and doesn't read anything not assigned but she thoroughly enjoys her "school" literature.
    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
    DD, 26, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
    DS, 24, BS '18 mechanical engineering
    DS, 22, BS '20 Chemsitry, pursuing phd at Wash U
    (DDIL married #3 in 2020, MPOA grad, BA '20 philosophy, pusrsing phd at SLU)
    DS, 20, Physics major
    DD, 17, dyslexic, 11th grade customizednMP plus co-op
    DS, 13, future engineer/scientist/ world conquerer 8A
    DD, 7 , 1ST Future astronaut, robot building space artist

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

      Originally posted by thenightbeforechristmas View Post
      How have you used the 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade Memoria Press literature with a dyslexic or struggling reader? What did your reading lessons look like? How did you help your child through the text particularly when they were struggling with many words on each page? How often did you have the child read aloud to you?

      Is it better for a dyslexic or struggling reader to read a grade below or stay on grade level to strengthen decoding skills? Are there certain books/lit guides within each grade level mentioned above that are more dyslexic-friendly or easier for a struggling reader?

      Thank you.

      What age is your child and what kind of phonics instruction has he/she had? Also, suggest posting on the Special Needs forum and Cheryl Swope can help you directly! :-)

      Good ordered phonics instruction is extremely important for dyslexics.
      Christine

      (2021/2022)
      DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
      DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
      DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

      Previous Years
      DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
      DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
      DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

        I have a third grader, 2e student. He started the year out doing 2nd grade literature. He also has a Barton tutor, which I stress as very very important and would not "go it alone" with a dyslexic student (however Barton can be self taught for a tutor and could then be used by you as the parent). Barton does not recommend any outside reading until after level 4, and that would be my suggestion as well. I don't think reading level is that important with a dyslexic student especially if he/she listens to someone read aloud or to audiobooks...and my son listens to a lot of books on audio--books well above his actual reading level! We are reading A Wrinkle in Time and just finished Lion, Witch and Wardrobe...hope that gives you a few ideas!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

          Hi, there! I think so much depends on the degree of the dyslexia. A child on the mild end of the spectrum can look very different than one on the severe end. Both of my dyslexics are more severe, so the accommodations they've needed are far more than a mildly dyslexic child might need.

          We use Barton here for phonics/reading and spelling for my youngest. (My oldest used it, too.) I don't expect him to read anything that includes phonics concepts that he hasn't covered in Barton. (as mentioned above--no outside reading until mid-level 4) My regular readers can puzzle-through unfamiliar words in a systematic way, figuring them out as they read. There is no way my dyslexic can do that. He needs actual, direct instruction in each concept before attempting to read. All of that to say that in my experience, letting a dyslexic attempt to read books that are too hard in an attempt to strengthen their reading skills just doesn't work.

          As for level, this is something I struggle with all the time! I would love to be able to just order 1 grade level core and be able to use everything in it, but the reality is that learning disabilities can cause quite a bit of asynchrony. I remember our educational psych. telling us to consider our dyslexic about 2 years younger than his actual age for academic purposes. That rang true for us for years. It's definitely helped me feel more comfortable choosing "younger" materials.

          As you know, dysgraphia often accompanies dyslexia, so that's another thing that requires great energy and work from the student (and the teacher!) to remediate. Our students work so hard to accomplish what comes easier to most kids that I think they really need to find joy and success in the other parts of their curriculum.

          My oldest is now a junior in college, majoring in physics. Dyslexics have a special talent to "see in 3 dimensions." I wish I could've glimpsed the future when he was 8--it would've saved me a lot of worry! At least I know things will be fine with my youngest.

          Good luck with your decisions, and if you've had testing done, don't hesitate to contact that person with questions you may have about curriculum, etc. Ours, at least, was always happy to help. Hopefully yours will be, too!
          Gina
          Honored & Blessed to be teaching my children at home
          (since 2001)

          DS-sophomore in college
          DD-soon-to-be college freshman!
          DD-9
          DS-8

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

            Originally posted by Gigi View Post

            As for level, this is something I struggle with all the time! I would love to be able to just order 1 grade level core and be able to use everything in it, but the reality is that learning disabilities can cause quite a bit of asynchrony. I remember our educational psych. telling us to consider our dyslexic about 2 years younger than his actual age for academic purposes. That rang true for us for years. It's definitely helped me feel more comfortable choosing "younger" materials.

            As you know, dysgraphia often accompanies dyslexia, so that's another thing that requires great energy and work from the student (and the teacher!) to remediate. Our students work so hard to accomplish what comes easier to most kids that I think they really need to find joy and success in the other parts of their curriculum.

            My oldest is now a junior in college, majoring in physics. Dyslexics have a special talent to "see in 3 dimensions." I wish I could've glimpsed the future when he was 8--it would've saved me a lot of worry! At least I know things will be fine with my youngest.

            We just had a neuropsychology exam done on my then 6 years 9 months old daughter, after struggling through FSR. The testing did not conclude dyslexia, but she does have an above average IQ (not quite "gifted"). She was gifted in a few areas, but most were either in the 80% or 10%. So, yes, she is a little asynchronous! She turned 7 in August. We have gone through 2 reading programs (including FSR) and I only now feel like she can read fairly fluently cvc words. She KNOWS all the sounds the long vowels make, etc, but when reading she can't distinguish between long and short, it messes up the fluency. I finally figured out that FSR was not right for her, because it introduced long vowels AND blends, etc at the same time. She needed to have the blends, etc with short vowels for a long time, THEN move onto long vowels. So, we are backing up again, for the 3rd time. I thought your statement above "consider your child 2 years below his grade) fairly accurate. My son, who is 5, is performing at about the same level. We are working through SCC and not SC1, because of behavioral issues, but the difference in teaching him to write and my older daughter is night and day. I will be interested to see how he "blends". When I first taught my older daughter at 5 to blend, she could not. She knew all her sounds forwards and backwards, but could not blend. It was another 6 months before she cold blend and she has been working on CVC words I feel, for now almost 2 years.

            If your child is perpetually 2 years "behind", when do they "catch up" and get to go to college? Do they spend another two years at home and wait until they are 20? Just curious on the track of your oldest!
            Christine

            (2021/2022)
            DD1 8/23/09 - Mix of MP5 and MP6 (SFL, Birds, R&S 6 Math, Language Arts with Grandma)
            DS2 9/1/11 - MP4M
            DD3 2/9/13 -MP2/MP3

            Previous Years
            DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, SC 5/6, MP4 + FFL and R&S Math 5, MPOA Fable
            DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, SC2/AAR/Storytime Treasures), Traditional Spelling 1, SC5/6 Year 1
            DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

              About a year ago it occurred to me to think of my son in this manner. He didn't make a sound until he was three, 2 years behind 'normal'. Turns out he couldn't hear a train. So he missed out on laying all those neural pathways.

              I was really stressing over repeating kindergarten for the third time. And then I started thinking of his late start with hearing and speech. When I accepted that he got a two-year delay start, it made sense that he's 2 years late in academics. It brought peace. I'm no longer trying to 'catch up' or get to grade level. This is his skill level and we go a day at a time. The Lord knows where he's at, He placed him there, He's okay with it. It's my turn to be okay with it too.
              DS12- Simply Classical mash-up of SC Spelling 1, intensive reading remediation, and MPOA 4th grade math.
              DD10- Classic Core 4th Grade w/ 5th grade literature
              DD8- Classic Core 2nd Grade

              We've completed:
              Classic Core Jr. kindergarten, kindergarten, first grade, second grade, third grade
              Simply Classical levels B, C, 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5/6

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                This is such a great thread!

                My oldest has dyslexia, along with other diagnoses, and we are using Barton as well. We're just over half way in level 3 -- we spent a year on the first four lessons, it took soooo long for him to really hear blends, but now we are moving along nicely. My daughter is finishing up K and we'll start the 1st grade core sometime after Christmas. I'm planning on doing Storytime Treasures orally with my son as well -- I'll read the story, ask the questions, write them for him and let him copy them. I want him to get the richness of the literature study but continue with the super duper explicit phonics and spelling instruction. I wanted FSR to work for him so much, and maybe if I knew all the techniques as a special ed teacher and knew how to modify it for him, etc, it would work, but I need open and go, say this, do this materials. Everything else we do is MP and I love it.

                I like the 2 year delay explanation, that is really helpful. We had a situation today with Anderson playing not so well with some other boys his age, and then he went and played wonderfully with a younger child. Maybe I need to be thinking him as almost globally delayed by 2 or so years. That would really make sense - academically, emotionally, coordination wise, etc.
                Susan

                2021-2022
                A (13) - Simply Classical 7/8
                C (12) - Simply Classical 7/8
                G (8) - Simply Classical 1

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                  Originally posted by howiecram View Post
                  We just had a neuropsychology exam done on my then 6 years 9 months old daughter, after struggling through FSR. The testing did not conclude dyslexia, but she does have an above average IQ (not quite "gifted"). She was gifted in a few areas, but most were either in the 80% or 10%. So, yes, she is a little asynchronous! She turned 7 in August. We have gone through 2 reading programs (including FSR) and I only now feel like she can read fairly fluently cvc words. She KNOWS all the sounds the long vowels make, etc, but when reading she can't distinguish between long and short, it messes up the fluency. I finally figured out that FSR was not right for her, because it introduced long vowels AND blends, etc at the same time. She needed to have the blends, etc with short vowels for a long time, THEN move onto long vowels. So, we are backing up again, for the 3rd time. I thought your statement above "consider your child 2 years below his grade) fairly accurate. My son, who is 5, is performing at about the same level. We are working through SCC and not SC1, because of behavioral issues, but the difference in teaching him to write and my older daughter is night and day. I will be interested to see how he "blends". When I first taught my older daughter at 5 to blend, she could not. She knew all her sounds forwards and backwards, but could not blend. It was another 6 months before she cold blend and she has been working on CVC words I feel, for now almost 2 years.

                  If your child is perpetually 2 years "behind", when do they "catch up" and get to go to college? Do they spend another two years at home and wait until they are 20? Just curious on the track of your oldest!
                  Long vowels are so hard here! Mine have needed explicit instruction regarding why/when each vowel makes the sound it does. There is just nothing intuitive about reading for them. For us, Barton has been super helpful in this way. Your daughter's history with blending and CVC words is so familiar!

                  There were "leaps" here around late middle school age and late high school age. Things were still hard! Learning disabilities sneak into almost every aspect of the curriculum. Once reading was no longer the biggest problem, math became really difficult, which was hard because I knew that once he got past the math/algebra part, higher math would really intrigue him. It's honestly only been in the last 18 months or so (as a college student) that he's realized this to be true. (even though I've been saying it for years) I wouldn't say, though, that the 2 year delay ever really went away completely, and that meshes with what we were told to expect--that it would pretty much stick around until adulthood.

                  We work at the pace that each student needs, and we work toward mastery. We go over every single thing and correct mistakes immediately after doing the work, if possible. I did feel that we didn't get to everything in high school that I had hoped. But thanks to classical education, he was ready for college anyway.

                  Originally posted by Colomama View Post
                  About a year ago it occurred to me to think of my son in this manner. He didn't make a sound until he was three, 2 years behind 'normal'. Turns out he couldn't hear a train. So he missed out on laying all those neural pathways.

                  I was really stressing over repeating kindergarten for the third time. And then I started thinking of his late start with hearing and speech. When I accepted that he got a two-year delay start, it made sense that he's 2 years late in academics. It brought peace. I'm no longer trying to 'catch up' or get to grade level. This is his skill level and we go a day at a time. The Lord knows where he's at, He placed him there, He's okay with it. It's my turn to be okay with it too.
                  This is such a beautiful outlook to have, and it's so true. One of the things I've said to my children from the time they were toddlers is, "God has a plan for you." We need to believe it, too!


                  Originally posted by sfhargett View Post
                  This is such a great thread!

                  My oldest has dyslexia, along with other diagnoses, and we are using Barton as well. We're just over half way in level 3 -- we spent a year on the first four lessons, it took soooo long for him to really hear blends, but now we are moving along nicely. My daughter is finishing up K and we'll start the 1st grade core sometime after Christmas. I'm planning on doing Storytime Treasures orally with my son as well -- I'll read the story, ask the questions, write them for him and let him copy them. I want him to get the richness of the literature study but continue with the super duper explicit phonics and spelling instruction. I wanted FSR to work for him so much, and maybe if I knew all the techniques as a special ed teacher and knew how to modify it for him, etc, it would work, but I need open and go, say this, do this materials. Everything else we do is MP and I love it.

                  I like the 2 year delay explanation, that is really helpful. We had a situation today with Anderson playing not so well with some other boys his age, and then he went and played wonderfully with a younger child. Maybe I need to be thinking him as almost globally delayed by 2 or so years. That would really make sense - academically, emotionally, coordination wise, etc.
                  That is pretty much exactly what has happened here. Mine are what others might consider "emotionally young." Many of the physical milestones also came later. It has been a really helpful explanation. As for blending, my son continues to surprise me with words that he's been hearing differently for years that we've never realized. I was finger-spelling T-R-U-CK and he said, "Wait! I thought it was CH, CH, CHUCK!"
                  Gina
                  Honored & Blessed to be teaching my children at home
                  (since 2001)

                  DS-sophomore in college
                  DD-soon-to-be college freshman!
                  DD-9
                  DS-8

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                    Thank you for all of the helpful replies. I am still thinking through what you have shared. I appreciate it very much.

                    Barton
                    For those that have used the Batron system, where is the best place to purchase the books? Where would I place my daughter who can comfortably read "Boxcar Children?" What readers would she need?

                    MP Lit
                    We tried to start "Farmer Boy" the other day and she would not use or couldn't remember her phonics to decode the following words on page 1: bare, boughs, cedars, spruces and billows. She became very frustrated and would not continue. She wants to read aloud with fluency. She doesn't want to stumble or sound out words. We didn't do the MP lit last year for 2nd grade. I believe the 2nd grade chapter books would also be too frustrating. Is there a chapter book and comp guide that you would recommend for a struggling 3rd grade reader?

                    She prefers to read the Narnia series aloud because she knows most of the stories by heart from listening to the audiobooks for hours. Is it ok for her to be choosing these books that she knows from memory for her core reading? Other than the Narnia series she chooses more twaddlish books for independent reading.

                    Phonics Background
                    She did all the MP reading and phonics curriculum for pre-k, kindergarten and 1st grade. She has also done "Road to Reading," will be starting "Phonics Pathways" and has done lots of phonics games and drills.
                    Other than the Barton system are there other books or programs you would recommend? Barton seems pricey.
                    Last edited by thenightbeforechristmas; 10-26-2016, 12:15 PM.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                      Barton is definitely pricey. It's so well-done and has been so effective for us that we just budget for it. Some people buy it on eBay or other used websites. But when you buy it dierectly from Barton, you get links to videos of each lesson actually being taught.
                      Once your student gets to Level 3 or so, you'll likely be spending more time on each level, spreading out the cost. And once you're done, resale is apparently great, although I wouldn't know personally, since dyslexia is sort of a "family legacy" here.

                      You can actually call and speak to (or email) Susan Barton. She's incredibly helpful. There are also videos available free on her website that are really helpful in understanding dyslexia.

                      Being able to read The Boxcar Children is wonderful!

                      I see nothing wrong with her wanting to read books she's familiar with for practice, but I don't let mine read what Charlotte Mason called "twaddle."

                      Over the summer, I bought the MP3 core, the MP1 core and SC2. We're using mostly SC2 with Barton subbed in for reading and spelling. He also adds Teaching Textbooks 3 just for fun, but we still do R&S math, as well, since dyslexics need the "over learning" it provides. I read aloud a lot, and we listnen to audiobooks while walking around our neighborhood. Right now, we're listening to "The Indian in the Cupboard." He loves science and biographies of scientists, musicians, inventors and composers. I read these out loud to him. He also has a fairly rigorous piano schedule.

                      I'm loving SC2 for him right now while he's working so hard on reading and spelling. It's so gentle, the copybook is just right for his dysgraphia, and he loves the literature selections.
                      Gina
                      Honored & Blessed to be teaching my children at home
                      (since 2001)

                      DS-sophomore in college
                      DD-soon-to-be college freshman!
                      DD-9
                      DS-8

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                        Another question for those following this thread:

                        My daughter will read to other adults, friends and her siblings, but she really dislikes reading to me or my husband. She doesn't like being corrected or sounding choppy. Today I had her read a book for fun to my cell phone to record it. She was happy to do it. She just read for 15 minutes with great expression and no complaints!

                        Does it matter if she records her school reading and then I listen to it later to review her mistakes? Downsides? I do want her reading aloud in some form to strengthen that skill.

                        Thanks!
                        Last edited by thenightbeforechristmas; 11-05-2016, 06:38 PM.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                          Recording your student reading is not ideal as a form of instruction. A student, especially a struggler, needs immediate correction. Recording so a child can hear their pacing and fluency is fine, or, so the child can have their own homemade book on tape. However, the teacher should be present during initial reading for immediate feedback.

                          Blessings,
                          Michelle T

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                            Can you maybe "rewire" how she feels about reading to you? If I needed to do that, I'd start with just sentences and give lots of encouragement and positive feedback. That way, there is less to correct all at once than if she's reading an entire page out loud. I tend to "sandwich" corrections for my dyslexic. Here's what I mean:

                            When he reads to me, I always start feedback with "Good job." Then I say, "let's look at this word," or "what is this sound?" or something specific to help him self correct. Then I end with, "Good reading!"

                            Another thing that I do with complicated sentences is point to each word to help him "track." When he makes a mistake, my finger just stays on that word. That way, he knows something went wrong without me actually saying anything.

                            I hope this makes sense; I'm finding it a little difficult to explain in writing!
                            Gina
                            Honored & Blessed to be teaching my children at home
                            (since 2001)

                            DS-sophomore in college
                            DD-soon-to-be college freshman!
                            DD-9
                            DS-8

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Using 2nd, 3rd or 4th grade MP literature with dyslexic child

                              Originally posted by thenightbeforechristmas View Post
                              Another question for those following this thread:

                              My daughter will read to other adults, friends and her siblings, but she really dislikes reading to me or my husband. She doesn't like being corrected or sounding choppy. Today I had her read a book for fun to my cell phone to record it. She was happy to do it. She just read for 15 minutes with great expression and no complaints!

                              Does it matter if she records her school reading and then I listen to it later to review her mistakes? Downsides? I do want her reading aloud in some form to strengthen that skill.

                              Thanks!
                              I think you have a pretty natural situation going on here, and one that is showing that your daughter is actually doing really well (even though there is a headache involved). Sounds like your daughter is reading well enough to realize that it is really FUN....which is super! She realizes that it is getting easier, and that means she is making great progress.

                              For young kids, this is their first really experience of working hard at something challenging, and "triumphing," if you will. There is a lot to be excited about. When she reads to others, or to a machine that does not give correction, she gets to bask in that sense of personal satisfaction - which is adorable.

                              But you and your husband represent "work,". because you offer her correction. You are expecting more out of her, right when she wants to enjoy being "done."

                              I am totally speculating here, but this is what I go through with my kids all the time. As long as they get to do their work themselves, everyone is a happy camper. But when I step in to offer correction, further explanation, or issue a continuing challenge, I get sour faces all over the place - regardless of their ages!!

                              On the one hand, it's great, because it shows that doing well pleases your daughter - which will motivate her to be a person who does well at things. And it means that she has an independent streak, which is both a wonderful and a challenging part of schooling her. It will continue to be that way throughout her education. I enjoy that in my children, even though it means some days are rockier than I would like. Good thing I am even more stubborn than they are!

                              Hang in there - sounds like things are right as they should be.

                              AMDG,
                              Sarah
                              2020-2021
                              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                              DS, 17
                              DD, 15
                              DD, 13
                              DD, 11
                              DD, 9
                              DD, 7
                              +DS+
                              DS, 2

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