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    #31
    Originally posted by Mary View Post
    Since dd7 enjoys being the baby of our family, we have made a game of saying, "We have to protect the baby! Spare the baby from this bawdiness!", at which point, she laughs and runs away.
    Ha! That's a scream - even with mine at 10 and 12, with only 1.5 years age difference, there is definite difference in what the 12-year-old is asking about and needing to discuss and what the 10-year-old is ready to hear. My mantra, "Now remember, Brother's not ready to hear this, so we're not going to talk about it in front of him." It's all such a gift!
    Monica

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
      Something similar to what Mary uses with the “suitcase” idea is a phrase I keep in mind: “Don’t answer a question before it is asked.” Which fits in well with the advice you have gotten. Go with what comes up in the lesson, but don’t add anything YOU think they will need ahead of time because you might inadvertently be making an issue of something that doesn’t need to be yet.

      If they do ask, I would tie it back to one simple thing. The Romans greatly valued personal honor befitting a “Roman.” Every action or reaction, they believed, reflected on Rome as a whole, either bringing honor or dishonor to themselves as a people. This belief was so strong, that they often resorted to killing/being killed in order to atone for or preserve their sense of Roman honor. It is difficult for us to understand because we know that this is not how Jesus wants us to live. But they did not know that then. Seeing how people lived without the Gospel helps us understand how important it is.

      HTH’s,
      AMDG,
      Sarah
      These are great points. Thanks, Sarah. Thankfully, my sons' questions don't go all the places I worry they will go and I find that when the questions do come up, I am able to recognize the grace of the moment and it's not as worrisome as I imagined. The point about ancient world-views and the Gospel comes up often around here thanks to MP's wonderful materials. My boys are seeing more and more clearly (as am I) how Jesus truly was earth-shattering Good News for the ancients.
      I appreciate this thread so much.
      Monica

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Mary View Post
        Oh, King Arthur. I was so afraid of King Arthur the first time I taught that! In our case, my dd (now 14) hated the book and was so incensed by Morgana's trickery that by the time we got to the Launcelot - Guinivere - Elaine triangle, she merely smacked her head and lumped that in as more bad behavior.
        I just read it again this year with ds12. He picked up on this right away - as soon as Merlin and Arthur spoke about Guinivere, he guessed that there was trouble ahead. He and I have had several discussions about adultery and sin; however, they have been at his level - no gory details. He is a 12-year-old boy who is prone to the giggles when we discuss anything of a...delicate nature. He understands and can appreciate the gravity of sin but sometimes his 12-year-old mind wanders to places it's not ready to go just yet. Let's just say I am holding a few suitcases for him. *weary laugh*

        Our problem now is that we have a 7-year-old running around and she is in no way ready to discuss the weightier themes the older kids encounter in their reading. I found this out the hard way when discussing As You Like It with my oldest this year. Ah, the horns of the cuckolded... *laughs, shakes head*
        Since dd7 enjoys being the baby of our family, we have made a game of saying, "We have to protect the baby! Spare the baby from this bawdiness!", at which point, she laughs and runs away.
        I giggled so much at this. What a sweet image.

        And now, I'm thinking, "Oh gosh! Do I need to spare my baby from the bawdiness?" I'm re-reading this thread, and have decided I'm out in la-la land, because I never blinked an eye at FMoR and King Arthur. Maybe my sensibilities are blunted.
        Plans for 2019-20
        DD #1 : 24, heading to Chase Law School NKU Fall 2019
        DD #2 : 13 8A: HLS Cottage School Louisville, MPOA
        DS #3 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
        DS #4 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
        DD #5: 7, MP 2 at home, HLS Cottage School Louisville
        DS #6: 5, MP K at home

        [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

        Comment


          #34
          Can I just update here? . . . . My sons' questions on Lucretia and her assailant Sextus went everywhere I thought I would! Ah, we're on the cusp of the bawdy realities of life!
          Monica

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by KikaMarie View Post
            Can I just update here? . . . . My sons' questions on Lucretia and her assailant Sextus went everywhere I thought I would! Ah, we're on the cusp of the bawdy realities of life!
            Monica
            We always know when we have "that" kid.

            Good luck Mama!
            Melissa

            DS (MP2) - 8
            DS (MP1) - 7
            DS (K) - 5
            DD (Adorable distraction) 2

            Comment


              #36
              While my son was a bit too clueless to go there during FMoR, he is the kid who collects and appreciates toilet-humor jokes in the way a connoisseur collects and appreciates fine wines. Having not grown up with or around boys, this has been both delightful and shocking to me. He raises his eyebrows at adultery/bawdiness in our Middle Ages readings, but he doesn't comment too much. However, had the Knights of the Round Table engaged in a belching contest, or had stolen venison given Robin Hood and his men horrific gas, my son would have been in hog heaven.

              All this being said, it sounds like you have the kind of kid who would really enjoy the "Horrible Histories" DVD series. There is no s-e-x-y stuff at all, but lots of British humor and toilet jokes...and some really good history lessons. If you're okay with seeing history presented in the form of Saturday Night Live skits and parodies, and you're okay with him knowing that women in the Middle Ages used urine as both a shampoo and a fabric stain treatment, or that Napoleon had hemorrhoids, then I think this might be the series for you (him). You can see a sample here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOaxOTLmlJA

              There are lots of other clips on YouTube, as well.

              Our rule is that we can laugh at these and talk about them at home but we don't advertise it to other kids, as each family has different rules about humor/TV. If you come from a young earth perspective, know that they sometimes reference cavemen...and while most of the history has checked out and agrees with what we learn in the Famous Men series/Guerber and our literature selections, there have been a couple of times that we've found them to be off. For the most part, though, it has been a treat for my kids to be able to watch an episode now and then.

              Mary

              DD14 - 9th core + CLRC Ancient Greek
              DS12 - 7th core
              DD7 - Still finishing 1st core at her own happy pace :-)

              Comment


                #37
                Argh! I just posted a reply but because I tried to edit it, it's been flagged as spam. (BTW, I edited that response b/c one of my words was flagged as inappropriate! I spelled it out with hyphens. I promise it's not a curse word!)
                Mary

                DD14 - 9th core + CLRC Ancient Greek
                DS12 - 7th core
                DD7 - Still finishing 1st core at her own happy pace :-)

                Comment


                  #38
                  This all reminds me of what I've heard families say about reading classic Grimm or Andersen tales. We read them all, nearing to finished with D'Aulaires Greek Myths and a good bit into D'Aulaires Norse Myths and planning for Famous Men of Rome this fall. We read it and discuss it wisely and carefully, but I'm not going to let her go watch The 300 or Titans at any time soon.

                  And for what it is worth, we, our family, cannot handle Horrible Histories. We much prefer Curiosity Stream, even if there is a sceen we have to moderate or skip.
                  Margaret of Georgia, in west TN – Enginerd’s wife and Mama

                  2019-2020 · 8th MP Year, 9th Homeschooling
                  Trekking along at a student self-pace...
                  DD Summer 2009 · 5th
                  DD Summer 2011 · SC4
                  DS Summer 2014 · JrK/K
                  DD Summer 2017 · Pre
                  DS …EDD 11/2019

                  Memoria Scholé Academy
                  Blog: Creative Madness Mama
                  CherryBlossomMJ

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Mary View Post
                    While my son was a bit too clueless to go there during FMoR, he is the kid who collects and appreciates toilet-humor jokes in the way a connoisseur collects and appreciates fine wines. Having not grown up with or around boys, this has been both delightful and shocking to me. He raises his eyebrows at adultery/bawdiness in our Middle Ages readings, but he doesn't comment too much. However, had the Knights of the Round Table engaged in a belching contest, or had stolen venison given Robin Hood and his men horrific gas, my son would have been in hog heaven.

                    All this being said, it sounds like you have the kind of kid who would really enjoy the "Horrible Histories" DVD series. There is no s-e-x-y stuff at all, but lots of British humor and toilet jokes...and some really good history lessons. If you're okay with seeing history presented in the form of Saturday Night Live skits and parodies, and you're okay with him knowing that women in the Middle Ages used urine as both a shampoo and a fabric stain treatment, or that Napoleon had hemorrhoids, then I think this might be the series for you (him). You can see a sample here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOaxOTLmlJA

                    There are lots of other clips on YouTube, as well.

                    Our rule is that we can laugh at these and talk about them at home but we don't advertise it to other kids, as each family has different rules about humor/TV. If you come from a young earth perspective, know that they sometimes reference cavemen...and while most of the history has checked out and agrees with what we learn in the Famous Men series/Guerber and our literature selections, there have been a couple of times that we've found them to be off. For the most part, though, it has been a treat for my kids to be able to watch an episode now and then.
                    I don't know about my sons, but if it's Saturday Night Live-style, I'm thinking my husband will be onboard with taking over the supplementary Roman history lessons and watching this with our sons. Thanks for the tip! My son who went down the expected path with Lucretia couldn't figure out why she didn't kill Sextus instead of herself - after all what could be so horrible? I did not go into details about what could be so horrible. He also told me that the reason s-e-x is a "bad word" (something he was told by neighbourhood kids) is because of Sextus' assault on Lucretia. I could not argue with his logic.
                    Monica

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by KikaMarie View Post

                      I don't know about my sons, but if it's Saturday Night Live-style, I'm thinking my husband will be onboard with taking over the supplementary Roman history lessons and watching this with our sons. Thanks for the tip! My son who went down the expected path with Lucretia couldn't figure out why she didn't kill Sextus instead of herself - after all what could be so horrible? I did not go into details about what could be so horrible. He also told me that the reason s-e-x is a "bad word" (something he was told by neighbourhood kids) is because of Sextus' assault on Lucretia. I could not argue with his logic.
                      Monica
                      I was thinking about the suicide element; I think the reason she didn't kill Sextus is that she couldn't. Which might be hard for a child in our world to imagine, but was probably true.
                      I understand that another element RE Lucretia's strategy is that by surviving long enough to report what Sextus had done, she not only revealed his nature but also saved the life of her servant whom he would have otherwise murdered too.

                      Mary, the boys were too young for Horrible Histories last time we tried them but they might like them now -- I'd forgotten about them!

                      And one thought RE FMoR generally: there are, it seems to me, significant ways in which FMoR differs from standard Roman history. I've generally found it worthwhile to supplement my own knowledge and/or assign independent reading to the child for this series; many here are very happy with it as is, so you can see what seems best to you. The Guerber books are a great supplement and very easy if you listen (a la Librivox) or just hand them off to the child to read; the Oxford University Press' "The Ancient Roman World" from their World In Ancient Times series is excellent and inexpensive it you get it used at Amazon or Abebooks: the Great Courses company has a subscription option and their Foundations of Western Civilization is terrific backgound and I sometimes listen while I'm catching up on chores on the weekend or exercising (you also could get this audio or video via many libraries) and Mary Beard's 'SPQR' is worth reading and well-written, though so cynical that it was almost painful for me to get through.
                      Ana, mama to
                      ds A, 13yo
                      ds N, 8yo

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by serendipitous journey View Post

                        I was thinking about the suicide element; I think the reason she didn't kill Sextus is that she couldn't. Which might be hard for a child in our world to imagine, but was probably true.
                        I understand that another element RE Lucretia's strategy is that by surviving long enough to report what Sextus had done, she not only revealed his nature but also saved the life of her servant whom he would have otherwise murdered too.

                        Mary, the boys were too young for Horrible Histories last time we tried them but they might like them now -- I'd forgotten about them!

                        And one thought RE FMoR generally: there are, it seems to me, significant ways in which FMoR differs from standard Roman history. I've generally found it worthwhile to supplement my own knowledge and/or assign independent reading to the child for this series; many here are very happy with it as is, so you can see what seems best to you. The Guerber books are a great supplement and very easy if you listen (a la Librivox) or just hand them off to the child to read; the Oxford University Press' "The Ancient Roman World" from their World In Ancient Times series is excellent and inexpensive it you get it used at Amazon or Abebooks: the Great Courses company has a subscription option and their Foundations of Western Civilization is terrific backgound and I sometimes listen while I'm catching up on chores on the weekend or exercising (you also could get this audio or video via many libraries) and Mary Beard's 'SPQR' is worth reading and well-written, though so cynical that it was almost painful for me to get through.
                        Thank you for these suggestions, Ana. In your opinion how is the context for 10-12 year olds? Could I hand Guerber (The Story of the Romans) or The Ancient Roman World to my sons for independent reading? I found that I needed to edit the Roman Mysteries series, which are recommended as supplemental summer reading for students going into grade 4 and studying FMOR. These are novels, not history books, and luckily we ended up using them as read-alouds with my older son, so I left out the references to adultery and even other innocent, but unnecessary, references to love scenes. The history books may not pose these issues. I would like to have some summer reading that I can confidently hand over to my sons. I would read it on my own as well, but I want to be able to give them something for independent reading.

                        Monica

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by KikaMarie View Post

                          Thank you for these suggestions, Ana. In your opinion how is the context for 10-12 year olds? Could I hand Guerber (The Story of the Romans) or The Ancient Roman World to my sons for independent reading? I found that I needed to edit the Roman Mysteries series, which are recommended as supplemental summer reading for students going into grade 4 and studying FMOR. These are novels, not history books, and luckily we ended up using them as read-alouds with my older son, so I left out the references to adultery and even other innocent, but unnecessary, references to love scenes. The history books may not pose these issues. I would like to have some summer reading that I can confidently hand over to my sons. I would read it on my own as well, but I want to be able to give them something for independent reading.

                          Monica
                          Monica, I just pulled these off my shelves to look them over.

                          I don't think that there is anything in the Guerber you would need to worry about. In the Lucretia story, for example, Guerber describes Sextus as having "insulted her grossly" and handles her suicide very deftly, I find: Guerber says: "Of course you all know that self-murder is a terrible crime, and that no one has a right to take the life which God has given. But the Romans, on the contrary, believed that it was a far nobler thing to end their lives by violence than to suffer trouble or disgrace. Lucretia's action was therefore considered very brave by all the Romans, whose admiration was kindled by her virtues, and greatly increased by her tragic death."

                          The Ancient Roman World is similarly oblique on this issue, and also on Antony's (much later) infidelities. It gives a great deal of interesting and relevant cultural background that rounds out FMoR nicely, IMHO, and though casual in tone is more demanding of the reader than Guerber so I am not sure if your 10yo would enjoy it. I'd suggest trying the "look inside" feature on Amazon to check this. This particular volume does not have extensive quotes from ancient sources, just shorter ones: that is to the good for a careful parent of young-ish readers, because the ancient authors were not really concerned with censoring their writing .

                          You should know that the "World in Ancient Times" series (which includes the Ancient Roman World), and all histories put out by Oxford University Press, follows standard academic practices regarding age of the earth & so on, though I haven't noticed any specific content in this book that addresses evolution or an ancient earth.
                          Last edited by serendipitous journey; 06-16-2019, 04:18 PM.
                          Ana, mama to
                          ds A, 13yo
                          ds N, 8yo

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Monica, I replied and the response is awaiting moderation.
                            PS: one thing I didn't mention in my Proper Response is that "The Ancient Roman World" is much shorter than the Guerber's "Story of the Romans." I'd hesitate to assign more than a chapter a day from Guerber, and that would run one into the school year -- maybe not a problem, we often supplement with independent reads like that one, but depending on your family/schedule you mayn't like that option.
                            Last edited by serendipitous journey; 06-16-2019, 04:38 PM.
                            Ana, mama to
                            ds A, 13yo
                            ds N, 8yo

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Mary View Post
                              While my son was a bit too clueless to go there during FMoR, he is the kid who collects and appreciates toilet-humor jokes in the way a connoisseur collects and appreciates fine wines. Having not grown up with or around boys, this has been both delightful and shocking to me. He raises his eyebrows at adultery/bawdiness in our Middle Ages readings, but he doesn't comment too much. However, had the Knights of the Round Table engaged in a belching contest, or had stolen venison given Robin Hood and his men horrific gas, my son would have been in hog heaven.

                              All this being said, it sounds like you have the kind of kid who would really enjoy the "Horrible Histories" DVD series. There is no s-e-x-y stuff at all, but lots of British humor and toilet jokes...and some really good history lessons. If you're okay with seeing history presented in the form of Saturday Night Live skits and parodies, and you're okay with him knowing that women in the Middle Ages used urine as both a shampoo and a fabric stain treatment, or that Napoleon had hemorrhoids, then I think this might be the series for you (him). You can see a sample here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOaxOTLmlJA

                              There are lots of other clips on YouTube, as well.

                              Our rule is that we can laugh at these and talk about them at home but we don't advertise it to other kids, as each family has different rules about humor/TV. If you come from a young earth perspective, know that they sometimes reference cavemen...and while most of the history has checked out and agrees with what we learn in the Famous Men series/Guerber and our literature selections, there have been a couple of times that we've found them to be off. For the most part, though, it has been a treat for my kids to be able to watch an episode now and then.
                              Sign us up! My boys will love this.

                              And guess what I JUST discovered? They're on Amazon Prime! <3
                              Plans for 2019-20
                              DD #1 : 24, heading to Chase Law School NKU Fall 2019
                              DD #2 : 13 8A: HLS Cottage School Louisville, MPOA
                              DS #3 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
                              DS #4 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
                              DD #5: 7, MP 2 at home, HLS Cottage School Louisville
                              DS #6: 5, MP K at home

                              [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by serendipitous journey View Post

                                I was thinking about the suicide element; I think the reason she didn't kill Sextus is that she couldn't. Which might be hard for a child in our world to imagine, but was probably true.
                                I understand that another element RE Lucretia's strategy is that by surviving long enough to report what Sextus had done, she not only revealed his nature but also saved the life of her servant whom he would have otherwise murdered too.

                                Mary, the boys were too young for Horrible Histories last time we tried them but they might like them now -- I'd forgotten about them!

                                And one thought RE FMoR generally: there are, it seems to me, significant ways in which FMoR differs from standard Roman history. I've generally found it worthwhile to supplement my own knowledge and/or assign independent reading to the child for this series; many here are very happy with it as is, so you can see what seems best to you. The Guerber books are a great supplement and very easy if you listen (a la Librivox) or just hand them off to the child to read; the Oxford University Press' "The Ancient Roman World" from their World In Ancient Times series is excellent and inexpensive it you get it used at Amazon or Abebooks: the Great Courses company has a subscription option and their Foundations of Western Civilization is terrific backgound and I sometimes listen while I'm catching up on chores on the weekend or exercising (you also could get this audio or video via many libraries) and Mary Beard's 'SPQR' is worth reading and well-written, though so cynical that it was almost painful for me to get through.
                                If you can access Hoopla through your library, you can access loads of the Great Courses there. There are 38 of the audio courses, and about 225 of the video courses.



                                Plans for 2019-20
                                DD #1 : 24, heading to Chase Law School NKU Fall 2019
                                DD #2 : 13 8A: HLS Cottage School Louisville, MPOA
                                DS #3 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
                                DS #4 : 11 4A + Simply Classical 5/6; HLS Cottage School Louisville
                                DD #5: 7, MP 2 at home, HLS Cottage School Louisville
                                DS #6: 5, MP K at home

                                [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

                                Comment

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