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OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

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    #16
    Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

    Originally posted by jen1134 View Post
    A MILLION TIMES YES ON HOLDING!!!!

    We discovered this with our son, but we saw it as a way to "control his behavior" because we thought he was "strong-willed". It just devolved into power struggles. With our daughter, I didn't do the holding because I would get so mad during the whole thing. But I knew she needed to be held during these episodes so I decided to change my perspective on it and began scooping her up as I would if she was hurt. I rock her, tell her I'm helping her calm down, etc. She often fights me, kicks, or tries to bite but I just keep holding her as if she was hurt and keep my focus on nurturing. Sometimes talking helps more, sometimes she needs silence. Either way, we sit and rock until I know she's ready. Sometimes she tells me she's ready but I know she's not so I tell her she's not quite ready yet and we stay where we are.
    I love this- I find it to be very mercy-oriented, Christian approach to child-rearing. The reality is that a child in this tantrum mode is actually hurt, and quite disoriented- they need someone beside them, who is bigger, stronger and wiser- I found your post very helpful!

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      #17
      Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

      So I hope this has dispelled anyone's mythology about MP families being perfect, having it all together, or four year-olds being angels The sheer speed and volume with which this thread is being answered disproves that one! I hope it makes some of you lurkers take heart. We've allllllll been there.
      “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

      ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Wonder Boy 14 ... MP5 + R&S Math 6
      Joy Bubble 12 ... MP5 full core
      Cowboy 10 ... MP5 + R&S Math 4
      Sassafras 6 ... MP1
      All … SSPX Catechesis

      Comment


        #18
        Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

        Originally posted by Maria2 View Post
        The reality is that a child in this tantrum mode is actually hurt, and quite disoriented- they need someone beside them, who is bigger, stronger and wiser
        This was what we realized. That they are out of control and don't know how to regain it. So holding them gives them that sense of tightness that things are not out of control.

        When my kids move past the tantrum ages, it is still really important to pull them in for a tight hug when you see the anxiety building. They completely wilt. It is amazing.

        AMDG,
        Sarah
        2020-2021
        16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
        DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
        DS, 17
        DD, 15
        DD, 13
        DD, 11
        DD, 9
        DD, 7
        +DS+
        DS, 2

        Comment


          #19
          Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

          Thank you all. I do feel peppier! I am going to try jumping jacks. I am going to accept that I will be leaving some places over the next several months. I am hoping that a new school year helps.

          Anita - that actually helped a bunch. This boy has cried himself to sleep at night because gravity refused to get on board with his engineering vision. But, I am starting to see the signs of real helpfulness too (when he is in a good mood). I will be hopeful that after another year or So of learning to read and getting stronger he will feel more in control of his life and chill a little.

          Melanie- Sorry I came off as sounding negative about INTJs. I actually meant the unmoved by peer pressure as a compliment! My mother is one and has fought long battles in her workplace with little support, but she believed in her cause so everyone else's ruffled feathers didn't bother her. Z is similar. And as for being frustrated with him, I am, he is so extreme. A super introvert. A super controller. But also super intuitive and a deep thinker. He figures stuff out. He learned to read at three when i taught his brother, never mind that he was looking at the book across the table, upside down and backwards! as an INFJ I find his mind fascinating, but his disinterest in the fact that he is upsetting others does bother me. I think he will have more fun as an adult than a kid. He is so bothered by not being able to do things like unbuckle car buckles. I think at least 70% of his tantrums relate to frustration and not getting the world to conform to his demands. When he can do the stuff of life (shoelaces!) by himself I think it will make him a happier person.

          Lena

          Comment


            #20
            Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

            I have not read all the replies, but I felt compelled to comment.

            I have one of these boys. He is emotionally intense and has been since just shy of 3 years old.

            During church he will fall out over not knowing where we are in the hymnal and then losing his place in the song. We also had to stop giving him children's bulletins because if he couldn't figure them out on his own he would ask us (and not in a whisper) how to do the word puzzle, and when we wouldn't explain he would again, fall out all over the place and have to be taken out of church. BUT, for these specific issues while I certainly view his response as inappropriate, I am really encouraged because he is upset at not being able to participate fully in the liturgy! How great is that? So, we address the issue of not talking loudly or much at all during church, but, I try to scaffold as much as possible when it comes to these specific things because I want him to love worship. So, I will go through and bookmark the hymns at the beginning of the service, and like I said, I just leave the children's bulletins out of it so he can draw or write his own thing.

            Also, I'm somewhat unsuccessful, but I simply try to be as even-keeled and matter-of-fact as I can be in other areas of his life. He is a wreck because he couldn't tear notepaper out of his notebook without ripping it? "Okay, so, you need to take a few deep breaths, calm down and think of how you could ask me for help, because I'm happy to help you with your paper." <-- that is my ideal. Sometimes it is, "Why in the world are you so upset about paper, just ask me for help! There's no reason for this!". But if I get shrill, it seems to, um, not help things. So in a way this boy is teaching *me* how to be calm and patient.

            Also, the above is how we deal with it now. He is much more able to actually calm down when I remind him not to get worked up. At 3 and 4 there was very much a sort of enforced sitting on mom's lap and deep breathing type stuff. When I couldn't handle his intensity I would let him cry alone, but it often led to more tears and more anger so it was mainly for my sanity and not as a technique per se. And I think that even when I'm at my absolute worst, God is not going to leave me to wallow in my fears and sorrows. He is going to be with me and calm my heart if I ask. So, that's what I'd (again, ideally) model for my son.

            Hope this helps some, I'll go back and read the thread now.
            Jodi
            ~~~~~~~
            2019-20 School Year:
            Ethan (7A)
            Matthew (5A)
            Silas (1st)
            Eleanor (4yo dabbling in PK as time allows)
            Andrew (brand new as of Oct 2019)

            Comment


              #21
              Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

              Oh, and to address something up thread about leaving church -- for us, being out of church is always less fun for the child than being in church. In church, they are allowed to draw quietly, flip through the hymnal, lay on mom's lap, wriggle a bit, and have one small, silent toy (like a stuffed animal or something). Sometimes, even a mint appears out of nowhere! Out of church is Very Boring. No wandering the narthex or playing or talking or anything. No drawing or toys. Just sitting (I had to do this in the car sometimes because noise carries!). It takes persistence, but eventually they figure it out.
              Jodi
              ~~~~~~~
              2019-20 School Year:
              Ethan (7A)
              Matthew (5A)
              Silas (1st)
              Eleanor (4yo dabbling in PK as time allows)
              Andrew (brand new as of Oct 2019)

              Comment


                #22
                Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

                Originally posted by armymom View Post
                Melanie- Sorry I came off as sounding negative about INTJs. I actually meant the unmoved by peer pressure as a compliment! My mother is one and has fought long battles in her workplace with little support, but she believed in her cause so everyone else's ruffled feathers didn't bother her. Z is similar. And as for being frustrated with him, I am, he is so extreme. A super introvert. A super controller. But also super intuitive and a deep thinker. He figures stuff out. He learned to read at three when i taught his brother, never mind that he was looking at the book across the table, upside down and backwards! as an INFJ I find his mind fascinating, but his disinterest in the fact that he is upsetting others does bother me. I think he will have more fun as an adult than a kid. He is so bothered by not being able to do things like unbuckle car buckles. I think at least 70% of his tantrums relate to frustration and not getting the world to conform to his demands. When he can do the stuff of life (shoelaces!) by himself I think it will make him a happier person.

                Lena
                YES!

                My husband (ENTJ) is AMAZING but very different. He also taught himself how to read at 3, has a lightning fast mind, is very honorable, steadfast and trustworthy, but no amount of cajoling, bribery or threatening will get him to move if he doesn't want to. THAT is the child you are dealing with. There are just other strategies you're going to have to employ to get him on your page. He's just different. An appeal to logic, control, independence or allowing him time to analyze something he loves will work better as he ages and matures -- like you said, once he's able to do more things on his own, he will be better able to navigate and control his tantrums.

                Here's the profile: http://www.personalitypage.com/html/INTJ.html

                I LOVE my ENTJ. I can't imagine the world without him. He is an incredible leader, rock-solid, and will never ever give in to peer pressure if he knows he's right. This is the most beautiful -- and most frustrating -- trait! He truly does not care if he is liked. Treasure it. People like this move the world for Good.
                “If I should fall even a thousand times a day, a thousand times, with peaceful repentance, I will say immediately, Nunc Coepi, ‘Now, I begin.’.”

                ~Venerable Bruno Lanteri
                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                Wonder Boy 14 ... MP5 + R&S Math 6
                Joy Bubble 12 ... MP5 full core
                Cowboy 10 ... MP5 + R&S Math 4
                Sassafras 6 ... MP1
                All … SSPX Catechesis

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: OT: Need a pep talk on discipline...

                  Originally posted by JodiSue View Post
                  Oh, and to address something up thread about leaving church -- for us, being out of church is always less fun for the child than being in church. In church, they are allowed to draw quietly, flip through the hymnal, lay on mom's lap, wriggle a bit, and have one small, silent toy (like a stuffed animal or something). Sometimes, even a mint appears out of nowhere! Out of church is Very Boring. No wandering the narthex or playing or talking or anything. No drawing or toys. Just sitting (I had to do this in the car sometimes because noise carries!). It takes persistence, but eventually they figure it out.
                  I took my 3 year old out to the car during Mass a few weeks ago, because I didn't know what else to do!!! I buckled her in her car seat. WOW, that worked like a charm....she screamed like a a banshee for probably 20 min. We were able to rejoin the family, with no issues! :-) It works!
                  Christine

                  (2022/2023)
                  DD1 8/23/09 -Mix of MP 6/7
                  DS2 9/1/11 - Mix of SC 7/8 and SC 9/10 (R&S 5, FFL)
                  DD3 2/9/13 -SC 5/6

                  Previous Years
                  DD 1 (MPK, SC2 (with AAR), SC3, SC4, Mix of MP3/4, Mix MP5/6
                  DS2 (SCB, SCC, MPK, AAR/Storytime Treasures), CLE Math, Mix of MP3/4, MP5 (literature mix of SC 7/8/MP5)
                  DD3 (SCA, SCB, Jr. K workbooks, soaking up from the others, MPK, AAR), MP1, MP2

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