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    Chreia/Maxim Stage

    I'm finding the Chreia/Maxim stage difficult. Are there any resources out there to train me properly to teach this? (Homeschool setting) I've tried just going out and searching on the web and find blog reviews where many just give up at this stage. I don't want to do that! I just need some resources/training to help me to wrap my public educated brain around it.

    If any home educators would like to tell me the process they go through to teach each lesson, I would be grateful. Do they have to research the author, etc? Research to find a quotation to support? Finding a narrative?

    Thank you!

    #2
    Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

    Glad you posted this! We start C/M next week. I have no advice (other than to use the DVDs) but am looking forward to reading the replies!
    Festina lentē,
    Jessica P

    '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
    DS Hillsdale College freshman
    DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
    DD 8th • HLN & Home
    DS 5th • HLN & Home
    Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

    Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
    Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

      I wish we were a bit farther along too...we are still in review weeks (reviewing fable and narrative) so we have not gotten to new material yet. I am usually figuring it out with my children as we start out the level!

      I do remember there being a thread about classical composition a long time ago where someone had done Chreia/maxim and had good things to say, but I cannot remember more than that. Have you tried asking your question on the high school board? There may be someone over there who has gotten that far already.

      Sorry to not be more helpful!
      AMDG,
      Sarah
      2020-2021
      16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
      DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
      DS, 17
      DD, 15
      DD, 13
      DD, 11
      DD, 9
      DD, 7
      +DS+
      DS, 2

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

        We're on lesson 2. The DVDs are a must for us.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

          The Chreia-Maxim Stage will feel different, and therefore difficult, because, first, it is the first time they encounter an 'essay' format, i.e., introduction paragraph, body paragraphs, and conclusion. In all, there are eight paragraphs that the student will write per lesson. In the final draft, the student writes all eight paragraphs together as a complete essay--and I suggest having the student write it in a separate notebook to be saved, or if you prefer, on a computer.

          Second, this stage feels difficult, because it is the inverse of what students have been doing in the Fable and Narrative Stage: instead of having the student read a story and draw out its narrative components (e.g., agent, action, place, etc.), they have to invent narrative components and put them together to make a story. In other words, whereas the Fable and Narrative Stages required students to understand a narrative and analyze its parts, Chreia-Maxim requires them to take an idea (i.e., the 'recognition', which is the saying given at the very beginning of the lesson) and to make narratives out of it. This will be a challenge. However, students can do it. To help them, it is important for you to understand what each paragraph in the essay is about.

          The Introduction at the beginning of the book (pp.8-11 in the most current version) provides an example of each paragraph and it explains them. Suffice it to say that, besides the first, second, and last paragraphs, the body paragraphs each present a particular kind of narrative: Cause presents a narrative about a person who obeys or applies the saying; Converse is about a person who disobeys the saying; Analogy presents a narrative about a person or thing whose actions bring about results that are somehow like the action and results of the saying (e.g., A pianist who spends long hours preparing will do well in her recital just like an army that prepares for war will successfully enter battle); Example is about a well known person from history or fiction literature whose actions demonstrate the truth of the saying; Testimony is not a narrative per se, but a quote from a respected authority that either supports or paraphrases the saying.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

            Thanks, Brett!
            I look forward to learning C/M this year from you on my computer screen. Thank goodness for MP DVDs!
            Festina lentē,
            Jessica P

            '22-'23 • 13th year HSing • 11th year MP
            DS Hillsdale College freshman
            DD 11th • HLN & Latin online
            DD 8th • HLN & Home
            DS 5th • HLN & Home
            Me • Memoria College, MPOA Fourth Form for Adults

            Teaching Third Form Latin and co-directing @
            Highlands Latin Nashville Cottage School, est. 2016

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

              Thanks Brett! Follow up question then...and forgive me if this is covered in the TG too, but what are your suggestions for sourcing ideas for the paragraphs? Who to use as an example, for example.

              AMDG,
              Sarah
              2020-2021
              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
              DS, 17
              DD, 15
              DD, 13
              DD, 11
              DD, 9
              DD, 7
              +DS+
              DS, 2

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                Thank you for the help!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                  Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                  Thanks Brett! Follow up question then...and forgive me if this is covered in the TG too, but what are your suggestions for sourcing ideas for the paragraphs? Who to use as an example, for example.

                  AMDG,
                  Sarah
                  Hi Sarah, good question. You are addressing the issue of "invention," which is one of the five pillars of composition, along with arrangement, elocution, memory, and delivery. Invention is tough, because it means coming up with one's own ideas, and, in this case, coming up with a narrative with setting, characters, plot, etc. Memoria Press is partially addressing this by including IEW's "All Things Fun and Fascinating" in our curriculum as a preparation for Classical Composition, because it does a great job training a student how to think about inventing stories. But for your situation and others' who are in the midst of Chreia-Maxim, I suggest you draw stories from anywhere and everywhere, including what happen in your home, what your students are reading in literature and Scripture, what happened at church, what they are watching on TV, etc. Stories can be found everywhere. The key is to have a firm grasp of the saying. In lesson 1, the saying is, "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." Go over this saying with the students, defining the words used, paraphrasing it, and then ask something like, "What is this saying teaching us?" or "If people listen to this wise saying, how will that affect how they live?" or, more specifically, "If people want to live at peace with other countries, what should they do?" The answer is, "The saying teaches us that if people want to live at peace with other nations, they should build up their defenses and have a strong military," or something like that.

                  Once you and the student have a good grasp of what the saying is teaching people to do, i.e., the "truth" of the saying, then you can better discern how to invent or find narratives that illustrate this truth.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                    Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                    Hi Sarah, good question. You are addressing the issue of "invention," which is one of the five pillars of composition, along with arrangement, elocution, memory, and delivery. Invention is tough, because it means coming up with one's own ideas, and, in this case, coming up with a narrative with setting, characters, plot, etc. Memoria Press is partially addressing this by including IEW's "All Things Fun and Fascinating" in our curriculum as a preparation for Classical Composition, because it does a great job training a student how to think about inventing stories. But for your situation and others' who are in the midst of Chreia-Maxim, I suggest you draw stories from anywhere and everywhere, including what happen in your home, what your students are reading in literature and Scripture, what happened at church, what they are watching on TV, etc. Stories can be found everywhere. The key is to have a firm grasp of the saying. In lesson 1, the saying is, "To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace." Go over this saying with the students, defining the words used, paraphrasing it, and then ask something like, "What is this saying teaching us?" or "If people listen to this wise saying, how will that affect how they live?" or, more specifically, "If people want to live at peace with other countries, what should they do?" The answer is, "The saying teaches us that if people want to live at peace with other nations, they should build up their defenses and have a strong military," or something like that.

                    Once you and the student have a good grasp of what the saying is teaching people to do, i.e., the "truth" of the saying, then you can better discern how to invent or find narratives that illustrate this truth.
                    This is a strength of the Lost Tools of Writing. It seems like (if there is time) a good place to insert LToW would be between Narrative and Chreia/Maxim?
                    Last edited by Cheryl in CA; 09-18-2015, 02:36 PM.
                    Cheryl, mom to:

                    ds 26, graduated
                    ds 25, graduated
                    dd 11th Grade
                    dd 8th Grade
                    ds 6th Grade

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                      Brett,
                      That sounds great. Definitely doable. Yay! Nervousness was creeping in, but this sounds like it will be a great opportunity for life lessons/interesting discussion. Super!

                      AMDG,
                      Sarah
                      2020-2021
                      16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                      DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                      DS, 17
                      DD, 15
                      DD, 13
                      DD, 11
                      DD, 9
                      DD, 7
                      +DS+
                      DS, 2

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                        You're very welcome, Sarah!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                          Brett,

                          If you don't mind, may I ask a question? My daughter is in 6th grade, and we have just started Classical Composition. So, this is what our intended schedule currently looks like:

                          6th: Fable and Narrative
                          7th: Chreia/Maxim and Refutation/Confirmation
                          8th: Common Topic
                          9th: Encomium/Invective/Comparison
                          10th: Characterization
                          11th: Description
                          12th: Thesis & Law

                          If we were to combine an additional two levels, which would you recommend combining?

                          Thank you!
                          Cheryl, mom to:

                          ds 26, graduated
                          ds 25, graduated
                          dd 11th Grade
                          dd 8th Grade
                          ds 6th Grade

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                            Cheryl in CA,

                            Good question. I would combine Characterization and Description. (These two are, by the way, my favorites to grade as a teacher.)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Chreia/Maxim Stage

                              Originally posted by [email protected] View Post
                              Cheryl in CA,

                              Good question. I would combine Characterization and Description. (These two are, by the way, my favorites to grade as a teacher.)
                              Thank you so much!
                              Cheryl, mom to:

                              ds 26, graduated
                              ds 25, graduated
                              dd 11th Grade
                              dd 8th Grade
                              ds 6th Grade

                              Comment

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