Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

SWR does anyone use this program?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    SWR does anyone use this program?

    As we contemplate using or changing to Memoria Press, I wonder if we could co-use the program with say Math-U-See and SWR (Spell to Write and Read)?

    I tried to look/do a search in the forum about anyone using SWR by Wanda Sanseri. I could not find any comment, I would appreciate some light.

    As a background my children are 7yr, 5yr (with 2 more littles) They can read fluently their Bible (NKJV) so they can decode with no problem.

    I had not thought much about it, but recently I saw all the videos of MP conferences. Cheryl Lowe mentions in one of them that English is hard to follow because it has so many exeptions. The people that teach with SWR conteract that claim saying that we have lost the rules, that were there all along and that we can decode most of the English language phonetically.
    I will be teaching my children Latin, which was the main point of Mrs. Lowe.

    I appreciate answers from those that have used MP and SWR. thank you. Though, I'll hear anyone's input.

    Karen

    #2
    Hi Karen!

    Welcome to the forum! I am glad to hear you are considering Memoria Press; it has been the best change we ever did in our homeschool journey. I have in fact used STRW, as well as several other programs with similar intentions, so forgive me if this is longer than you expected.

    When I came across the program in some hand me downs from friends, I had been using MCP plaid phonics and adding spelling in with the school we were using. The concept of Spell to Read and Write seemed like a way to further streamline what we were already doing...(I have a great love for efficiency!) It took all the rules, applied them to words, in a progressive manner, without the need to be perpetually buying workbooks. Plus, I thought the approach of learning the rules directly would help my children learn them more clearly, which would translate to perfect spelling. All things considered, on paper, it seemed like a slam dunk.

    Well, putting this method into practice revealed several things to me. First, it was an extremely time consuming way to handle spelling. When I think of our priorities in our school day, Spelling is a minor subject, one of those ones that should be quick and painless. Math, or Latin, or Literature can take an hour, but certainly not spelling...we just don't have that time.

    Secondly, it became more complicated, rather than less. Whereas learning the phonograms was simple enough, the task of analyzing each word they come across to decode it, using the marking system, was a burdensome way to learn to spell. Third, it was not age appropriate. Notice that I mentioned the task of analyzing the word to do the markings and learn to spell it that way...that sort of analytical activity is really meant for later ages (it is why there is not a lot of diagramming in English books until later grades....5 and up. By then, spelling should be well in-hand).

    At the time, I simply accepted my frustration as being a lack of experience, and proceeded to try several more programs using the same concept. I had the same experience with all of them....time consuming, over complicated, and too abstract for my kids' ages (2nd and 4th, at the time). I have since learned more about spelling, and have discovered that Spelling is really a set of rules that is intended to be internalized. Much like the way we read. Once we start reading, we no longer stop to think about "how do I read," I just perform the action of reading. Occasionally I will come across an unfamiliar term and will need to think about how to read that term, but then I do the thinking and I figure it out. Spelling is the same. Even as I type this I am not really thinking about how to spell each of these words....my fingers are just (somewhat) rapidly touching the keys without a great deal of thought on my part. Occasionally I need to dust off a rule, usually the i before e one, but that is really about it.

    Therefore, the tried and true methods of presenting rules, with lists of related words, cycled through on a yearly basis in increasing complexity,(such as through Spelling Workout which MP uses) is actually a very successful approach to helping children develop the necessary familiarity with how most words are spelled.
    If anything, I think more attention should be paid to the process of how new words are learned each week, given that it is through actually learning new words to spell that children repeatedly use the spelling rules and develop the ease of being a good speller. Andrew Pudewa has excellent information about Spelling and the brain on his website at Institute for Excellence in Writing.

    We do work to learn and remember the spelling rules that are presented each week, but not in the manner expected by the STRW folks. Enough so that when they come across them again in a lesson they roll their eyes and say, "yes, Mom, I know I know I know..." And then on to the words they go. We actually have developed our jingle of, "say, spell; say spell; say spell, write" for how they are supposed to practice each word, each day (it looks long, but when you say it to four children four times a week, it becomes a pretty rapid fire reminder). In this way, they see the word, speak the word, heard the word, speak the spelling, hear the spelling, three times, and then even physically encounter the word by writing it. Talk about hitting all the learning pathways! All within a routine that takes usually ten minutes a day. Using that one rule in fifteen to twenty words for the week....they will see it, hear it, and write it without really thinking about it, which has led my children to all become very natural spellers.

    I hope this experience will be helpful to you as you make decisions!
    AMDG,
    Sarah
    2020-2021
    16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
    DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
    DS, 17
    DD, 15
    DD, 13
    DD, 11
    DD, 9
    DD, 7
    +DS+
    DS, 2

    Comment


      #3
      SWR phonogram and rule memorization

      You've hit it on the nail. This is my 2nd year attempting to do SWR, which is a type of program that you mentioned, Before that I had read Spalding, Riggs Institute, SWR old and new, and LOE. I chose the cheaper, but friendlier looking. As I wanted cursive first, I went with SWR, plus SWR does not teach the Shwa soud which I cannot make for my life.

      Your are right, my littles are too little to understand how to analize and mark the words! However my background of word memorization screamed at me, so I ignored anything that sounded like just memorization of words like "the" . That is how I learned, not much rules as "English rules are just exeptions" I was told once by an English teacher. My first language is not English, so I didn't want to mess up my kids as their mother tongue is English.

      it took me years to be able to write paragraphs with out checking my every word and grammar. people tell me I love run-on-sentences. But the embarassment of spelling something wrong has allways bothered me. I am an accomplished adult (or so I think,lol), but you would never know it by my writing.

      Going back to the METHOD of GRAMMAR in classical education. I think that is why my kids have done well, we have just repeated the phonograms, some of the rule cards. my 3yr old can say "oi" that we don't use at the end of English words.

      I am considering changing to MP, however the cost of just throwing everything we use now and buying MP is too much for us. SO I was looking onto somehow use what I have so I can piece together 2nd grade and K.

      I would love a 10 min spelling a day!

      Taking in all that you have told me. I will read it and read it, and try to come up with a change, maybe I can use the "wise guide" which is the word list book for SWR, and take the words and do as you say:

      you say:
      " I think more attention should be paid to the process of how new words are learned each week, given that it is through actually learning new words to spell that children repeatedly use the spelling rules and develop the ease of being a good speller. Andrew Pudewa has excellent information about Spelling and the brain on his website at Institute for Excellence in Writing."

      I will look at his website,

      You say:
      ""say, spell; say spell; say spell, write"... In this way, they see the word, speak the word, heard the word, speak the spelling, hear the spelling, three times, and then even physically encounter the word by writing it"

      Am I understanding you saying:
      example:
      teacher writes: hat -------see the word
      teacher says: hat---------hear the word
      students repeat: hat------speak the word
      3x teacher spells the word: h/ a/ t/ (phonographically? or name of letter?)-----hear the spelling
      3x student repeats: h/ a/ t/ -----speak the spelling
      student writes: hat-------writting the word

      Is the three times correct? I can see how to repeat the whole thing 3 times.

      The only difference that my children are used to is the teacher saying at the end: Make my pencil/marker/chalk move, and the students read back to teacher what they have written and then teacher asks: does your word look like mine (but that part is about the markings), then they have to make a sentence using the words (most of them).

      All that said, you mentioned:
      "Using that one rule in fifteen to twenty words for the week....they will see it, hear it, and write it without really thinking about it, which has led my children to all become very natural spellers."

      You mean that MP curriculum is such that you encounter the spelling words and they are pointed out in other subjects, or that in the spelling lesson from Spelling Workout, the words taught with the new rule are used in sentences/copy work throughout the week? WOuld you expand on that please.
      If all is integrated throughout the curriculum, then my idea of using my word lists, would not be compatible with the rest of the material being taught in MP.

      I will look up Spelling Workout and check their rules and phonograms? compare to the pronunciations/rules of SWR (70 phonograms and 20 something spelling rules)

      Thank you!

      Karen

      Comment


        #4
        Karen,

        You have so many great questions; I hope I can answer them to be clear and helpful. First, let me just reassure you that many of us who come to Memoria Press are in your same situation: we have been using other materials, something draws us to MP, and we discover the wealth of help and goodness that is here.

        So we end up wanting to jump right in and buy all new things. But very few of us can actually do that! So my first thing is to not be worried if you start with Latin, and work your way into the Memoria Press curriculum a little at a time. That is what we have had to do, and every step of the way has been worthwhile.

        Secondly, as far as Spelling in the MP curriculum, we do use Spelling Workout, which is a workbook style program, presenting a rule each week, with a list of words that show that rule. The lists get longer as the grades go up. Each year, rules are repeated, or explained more, so that children have reinforcement from one year to the next (in other words, it is all planned for you!) There is a lesson plan for the Spelling portion of the curriculum that you can purchase from MP. The lesson plan also includes Phonics (for First and Second) or English (for Third grade and older). So if you would like to implement Spelling through MP, you would only need the workbook, and the lesson plan.

        Okay, so lastly, how do we actually do spelling. As the lesson plan lists, we learn a new rule from the Lesson, usually talking about it in the book, showing how their words follow the rule, maybe writing other words they can think of that follow it in their notebook....basically just talking about it so I know they understand it. In a classroom they would put the rule on the board, and follow through with discussion, working on memorizing it, and that sort of thing.

        After we present the rule, that is when I start them on their "say, spell, say spell, say spell, write" routine. When they are first learning it, I sit with them to do it. But after a couple of weeks, they know what to do and they do it on their own during their independent work. It is all done by the child.

        So, for my daughter, she reads the word aloud, then spells the word aloud (first time); then she reads the word aloud, then spells the word aloud (second time); then reads the word a third time, and spells the word a third time. Then she writes it in her notebook. Then she does the next word the same way, and so on for the whole list. In this way, their eyes see the word, they speak the word, they hear the word, and then they see, speak, and hear the spelling of the word....many times, before they then write it. As Mr. Pudewa says, the order in which the letters go in the brain, will be the order in which they come out of the brain!

        This drill is done every day, and takes very little time once they get the hang of it. They also will have three workbook pages from Spelling Workout, one done per day (usually Tues, Wed, and Thurs), which are usually fun and short. A spelling test is either done on Friday, or for my second grader, her test day is actually tuesday.

        That is it as far as spelling goes. There are additional ideas listed in the lesson plan, but we usually keep it pretty simple. Also, there is little need to define the words, write sentences with the words, and such because the other parts of the curriculum provide *plenty* of practice with those skills. So Spelling gets to be just Spelling. We do it, get it done, and move on.

        You also asked about the comparison of number of phonograms, and number of rules, so....STRW has 29 spelling rules, and 70 phonograms. If you consider that many of the "sounds" listed as phonograms are actually specific ways of "spelling a sound," then many of those 70 phonograms are also covered by the Spelling rules. For example, the "ai" vs "ay"....or the "oi" and "oy".....yes, those are phonograms according to those programs, but they are also eligible to be covered by a lesson in spelling, where the rule for the week is "how do we spell long vowel sounds" or "how to spell words with a vowel digraph."

        In phonics, children are taught that certain pairs of letters make certain sounds (ai says "ay") so they can sound them out when they see them, and then after Phonics has been mastered, Spelling takes over to remind students, "the "ay" sound can be spelled many different ways, such as...." The Phonics books lead into the Spelling books very well in this way, so from K through fifth or sixth grade, children are receiving a very thorough coverage of all the material.

        I hope I have covered your questions, and I am happy to help any more if there is still more that concerns you!
        AMDG,
        Sarah
        2020-2021
        16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
        DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
        DS, 17
        DD, 15
        DD, 13
        DD, 11
        DD, 9
        DD, 7
        +DS+
        DS, 2

        Comment


          #5
          I use SWR and like it

          I used to teach public school, and the method they used for teaching spelling (copying the word, rainbow writing, pyramid writing, chanting, and worksheets ) didn't seem to work unless you were a natural speller from the beginning. To me, it made more sense to teach the different spelling patterns (long a can be spelled a-e, ai, ay, ea, ey, etc) along with any "rules" that apply to that spelling pattern and learning the rules for spelling. It made spelling "logical" and not "random" for us.

          So I use SWR for spelling, but not for learning how to read or penmanship, although I do refer to it when we encounter words that we are having trouble decoding. I do understand that you learn to read through spelling, but my children were already reading when we started it.

          Also, I make it work for us - I do give them all 20 words, but only 10 at a time. We don't do the spelling notebook each year, and I make sure they write the phonograms and not just read them.

          I used it last year with two older 5 years old and one older six year old and it works for us, so I continue to use it this year. For us, it doesn't take more than 10 - 15 minutes each day now. (When I started it , it took a lot longer - there is a learning curve with any new curriculum) And I have noticed that their spelling has carried across to their writing. In addition, I have a four year old who is turning 5 this week, who already is reading so I'm having her learn the phonograms (see the card & say the sound) and I have her write the phonograms when I dictate the sound to her in order to translate the sound to a written symbol. I only do a few a day with her. Even though she is using the full MP 5 year old Kindergarten program, I won't start using SWR to teach spelling until next year with her.

          In all honesty, I have not researched Spelling Workout , only looked at it, so I cannot comment on that.

          Just offering a different experience.

          Michelle

          Comment


            #6
            I used SWR with my first child and tried to with my second but it was too hard, too much work. My first is a good speller and it might just have been more natural for him. The program is too long for the school day and they want you to do too many spelling words(that are random) at a time.

            The best takeaways from it have been the "think to spell" way of teaching some words which I still use. A sound per finger (or more if it is a digraph etc) and working per syllable. I also liked the clock face for penmanship and still find myself saying "go around to the 2, then back around the clock up to the dotted etc." I also think starting at the baseline for some letters is easier but NAC doesn't use that.

            That's about it though.
            Courtney
            Mom to 5 boys-14,13,10,8,5 and the girls- 3 and 1

            Comment


              #7
              Michelle,
              I'm glad you are able to offer a different experience!
              AMDG,
              Sarah
              2020-2021
              16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
              DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
              DS, 17
              DD, 15
              DD, 13
              DD, 11
              DD, 9
              DD, 7
              +DS+
              DS, 2

              Comment


                #8
                Swr

                Thank you for the posts. I am getting ready to change things around our homeschool and see how to implement what I have.

                I went to Mr. Pudewa's website, and read a lot of interviews. His company sells CDs as the main idea of his method is to use the spelling sound to come first so the brain has a place to put the new word, then the new word is read then written then read.

                I have to say that if anyone starts spelling things to me I cannot remember, in fact I am right now in need of a password for a job that I am doing. A gentle soul spelled the bunch of letters to me, after I finished typing the password, I could see it for only a moment then it dissapear, it was a really easy phrase, I thought, wow, I should remember that. but guess what? I have not been able to recall it. Not to say Dr. Pudewa is mistaken. I get nervous (to the point of getting sick) when people spell things to me and then I am expected to know what they said, it was funny when my hubby tried spelling things to me when he didn't want my kids to know he had bought i-c-e-c-r-e-a-m! my kids learn to spell that word first! ha!.

                Thank you for the posts.... I have learned a lot,

                K

                Comment


                  #9
                  Karen,
                  IIgo through a similar phenomenon when my kids want to read me something they have written. I nearly panic! I need to have it written down in front of me, and then I need to write it as well for me to begin to remember it. I am a very visual person. Which is why I have tried to combine what Mr. Pudewa says about how to learn to spell, with what I know about myself.....needing to visually see it, to then spell it, and then write it. Hopefully, we are covering all the good things to do, you know?

                  AMDG,
                  Sarah
                  2020-2021
                  16th Year HSing; 10th Year with MP
                  DD, 19, Homeschool grad; college sophomore
                  DS, 17
                  DD, 15
                  DD, 13
                  DD, 11
                  DD, 9
                  DD, 7
                  +DS+
                  DS, 2

                  Comment

                  Working...
                  X