Classical academic press vs cc

[Heathersaysyeah]

Does anyone have experience with CAP's writing and rhetoric series? I'm debating signing up my 9 year son for either MP's Fables or CAP's Fable/Narrative.
Any insight?

[jen1134]

We transitioned from WR to CC with 12 and 13 year old boys. CC’s terminology and skills are much deeper than WR. The boys are now 17 and 18 (senior and graduate) and completed all CC levels (the first three with me, the rest with MPOA). Here are my then-15yo’s thoughts on CC and the difference between it and CAP:

“Fable/Narrative was annoying. It seemed simple, dull and pointless. Until I realized that simple was not the same as easy. Our old composition course was just another subject to get done [CAP'S Writing & Rhetoric]. I wrote a few sentences on a black line and then I went back to playing. That changed when we switched to MP’s Composition.

That blue-spiraled text became an enemy. Now I was being asked questions that required answers. What where the nine narrative components? How do you paraphrase without copying someone else? What does changing the perspective do? Fable/Narrative forced me to think and I hated it. My mind went as blank as the lines in front of me.

Through a lot of effort, I got through those first two stages and I started Chreia/Maxim with a sense of dread. The year started, we sat down to write, and I opened my new book. I quickly flipped through the pages and realized: this was completely different.

Before, I had analyzed stories, written about stories, paraphrased stories, and as I looked at this new book, I suddenly understood. Now I could move my focus to defending those stories. This was a revelation.

It wasn’t long before I realized that like the former stages, these books were no simple task either. But now I could see how they built on one another. Now, from a perspective of almost five years of MP’s composition completed, I can look back on the effort it took. But I can also see what it was worth. Aragorn was right when he said: ‘All that is gold does not glitter.’”

[Heathersaysyeah]

Thanks for your reply!
Another thing I found attractive about CAP's writing class is its 3 days a week. Is once a week sufficient for MP's fable class?
I don't want to fail my kids in their writing! My older child has been doing IEW for a few years now and likes it, so i decided not
to switch her to MP. I've always loved the concept of the Progym and really want to give it a chance.

[enbateau]

If you mean MPOA, then meeting once a week is fine. You are likely to stretch some things out over the course of a week anyway. I hold a class 3x/week, but the kids do much of the work independently now. Last year, in Fable, they needed me more to get the feel of it. It gets easier with each level. What you want is someone to give excellent feedback on grammar, style, and seamless incorporation of the FOD.

[tanya]

I love this, Jennifer! And look how well your son can string words together!

Tanya

[jen1134]

I love this, Jennifer! And look how well your son can string words together!

Tanya

Thank you ☺

I'm (usually ) not one to brag, but I thought you would get a kick out of knowing: he wrote that about three years ago and is now a senior. He was accepted to three liberal arts colleges, and just competed for a full-tuition scholarship at one of them. We find out results in two weeks. He also said that his MPOA Senior Seminar (Tolkien/Lewis) class prepared him really well for the on-site essay portion of the competition!

[jen1134]

Thanks for your reply!
Another thing I found attractive about CAP's writing class is its 3 days a week. Is once a week sufficient for MP's fable class?
I don't want to fail my kids in their writing! My older child has been doing IEW for a few years now and likes it, so i decided not
to switch her to MP. I've always loved the concept of the Progym and really want to give it a chance.

From a quality standpoint, I wouldn't worry about that at all. The classes are VERY thorough. My only caution is that younger kids can have a hard time focusing in online classes when they're so long. The nice thing with CC is that the classes tend to be pretty interactive (answering questions, reading your work, working in "pods", etc). The level of interactivity will depend on the teacher. I highly recommend wireless headphones as those allow the kids to pace in front of the computer, walk around the room for a stretch, etc.

Those have to be some of the choppiest sentences I've ever written — and on a composition thread no less! — but it's been a long day here. Please forgive the format!

[Emily L]

If you use MP products, it only makes sense to go with the MP program. We are about halfway through W&R (finishing book 5 with my eldest). From what I have seen, the MP program is much more "classical" in the sense that it isn't just going through the progym stages (fable, narrative, etc) but using the terminology and memorizing what those words all mean and refer to. Whereas in W&R, there isn't going to be any of those elements. There is summarizing and amplifying, changing POV, changing out words for stronger words, etc. But it's definitely more "fill in the blank" or short paragraphs, rather than writing stand-alone papers. So I would agree with those who have said there's more writing in MP's program. I do find it helpful to assign extra written narrations or small papers to my child across subjects. After this kid, I am using IEW's ATFF for my 4NU next year, thinking she might take to that, and the MP folks were kind enough to include those plans in her package. So we will take it one year at a time I guess. Not sure what will fit her best...

[KrisTom]

I have now used both CAP's Fable and MP's Fable. I decided to use CAP for my 3rd grader and MP for my 4th grader. CAP has questions to answer, dictation, copywork, and writing in the course. It's a little more "open" and Charlotte Mason infused with the classical. It has some illustrations and is more conversational with more reading. MP is more predictable and procedural, but it is also great for depth. If you don't feel your child needs the "extras" with CAP, you might opt for MP. FWIW, I like both a lot, and it depends on the student. Fable is probably my favorite MP product I bought, though, next to Christian Studies. We didn't continue using the DVD, though.

[pickandgrin]

Thanks for your reply!
Another thing I found attractive about CAP's writing class is its 3 days a week. Is once a week sufficient for MP's fable class?
I don't want to fail my kids in their writing! My older child has been doing IEW for a few years now and likes it, so i decided not
to switch her to MP. I've always loved the concept of the Progym and really want to give it a chance.

This comment is about class commitment rather than programs. FWIW, we've been homeschooling for 10 years with MP and my kids have never had a homeschool class, in person or online, that meets 3x week, ever! In fact, we've found that even 2x a week can be a difficult thing to mix in with tutorial days, regular appointments, work for other classes, and life in general. Our sweet spot has proven to be one class per week and four "work days" to complete outside work.

If all of the work is completed during a 3x/week class, I could see how that may work. However, if homework is assigned outside of class time that is going to be a very hefty subject time-wise compared to other studies. Keeping the proportions of work time per subject balanced is a difficult task. Not all subjects get the same amount of work time for us. Three classes might prove too much for an otherwise full homeschool schedule. Your kids are younger and you have many, many years for them to refine their writing ability and style. Consistency over years and years is key, but it need not become the most important thing you focus on time-wise in the early years.

HTH!

Jen--I love what your son wrote, how wonderful!

[jenniferjb]

We have never done writing with Schole, but we have done science (meets 3X) and we have done math at MPOA (meets 3X). There is good and bad to meeting more frequently. Meeting three times a week is nice because smaller bits of material are presented, and the class meetings are shorter. The class flows more like a normal classroom because more meetings allows the instructor to be more flexible. If all the material doesn't get covered, there are more opportunities to catch up. It does however, make your schedule less flexible which makes it harder to take days off. It can also make your days more hectic because more class meetings means less time outside of class to just get the work done.

[Heathersaysyeah]

Thanks for all the help. I'm hoping to make it to sodalitas this year!
Another question.
I see that EGR is included in the MPOA Fables class. What do the assignments look like for the ERG component? I tried EGR with my daughter when she was in 3rd grade and it wasn't a good fit for her.
I signed my 9 year old son up for it. I'm nervous, but I know he can do it.

[pickandgrin]

I just noticed that your final question did not get answered so I am bumping this thread back up.

[howiecram]

Thanks for all the help. I'm hoping to make it to sodalitas this year!
Another question.
I see that EGR is included in the MPOA Fables class. What do the assignments look like for the ERG component? I tried EGR with my daughter when she was in 3rd grade and it wasn't a good fit for her.
I signed my 9 year old son up for it. I'm nervous, but I know he can do it.

We had a hard time with the EgR the first go round "on our own", but my daughter did very well with it in the MPOA class! I realize this isn't exactly answering your question. They do go over the rules and complete some of the WB "in class". Some (but not all is assigned). There are quizzes and tests on the EGR though. So, you do have to keep up. However, I didn't help my daughter one bit when she took the class. (I was prepared to help her "study", but I think the review in the class was good.). I will note, however, that the year we took the class, it was offered 2x a week for 45 min vice 1x per week for 1.5 hours. I might suggest you do at least 1 additional day of "quizzing" your child, or have him study the flash cards a few times a week. Additionally, we waited until 5th grade (age 10) to take the class.

[Heathersaysyeah]

We had a hard time with the EgR the first go round "on our own", but my daughter did very well with it in the MPOA class! I realize this isn't exactly answering your question. They do go over the rules and complete some of the WB "in class". Some (but not all is assigned). There are quizzes and tests on the EGR though. So, you do have to keep up. However, I didn't help my daughter one bit when she took the class. (I was prepared to help her "study", but I think the review in the class was good.). I will note, however, that the year we took the class, it was offered 2x a week for 45 min vice 1x per week for 1.5 hours. I might suggest you do at least 1 additional day of "quizzing" your child, or have him study the flash cards a few times a week. Additionally, we waited until 5th grade (age 10) to take the class.

Thanks for the tips! My son will be 10 in January, so I hope hes ready like your daughter was. It is very encouraging that the EGR is done in class.
I think that will motivate him a lot if others are doing it.