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    Placement when coming from AO

    Hello,

    We are strongly considering a transition from AO (completing Y5 and Y3.5 this year) to Memoria Press next year for various reasons. I am hoping for some input regarding placing my son. He will be in fifth grade next year. Here is a run down:
    • He hates writing, gives 2-4 sentence written narrations, has poor handwriting unless he writes incredibly slowly, and don't even get me started on spelling! I'm scrapping IEW spelling for next semester, because we agree the speed it requires is contributing to poor handwriting. He wants to try Memoria Traditional Spelling after looking at the samples. We have been focusing on the first few units of IEW and, while it takes him forever, he is producing beautiful little essays he is proud to share. I cannot decide if I should continue with IEW and Fix-It grammar this year and/or what I should do this fall. I'd like to switch all to Memoria for ease. This is where he and I have the greatest tension.
    • We are moving to Memoria science this spring and he is thrilled. He's very strong here.
    • We will finish the year half way through Latin for Children (he has done Song School 1&2).
    • We will finish the year half way through Memoria's Elementary Greek (his very favorite subject).
    • He is finishing Singapore 5B this year.
    • We will do Memoria's Geography 1 (more or less depending on how challenging he finds it) this spring.
    • He is a very strong reader. I think he would much rather do the accelerated 5th (6th grade I believe) literature option vs. the standard 5th grade one. He LOVES Robin Hood (AO has it scheduled in Y2) and we all enjoyed a Door in the Wall.
    • The science and classical studies in the accelerated program for 5th grade are things he may enjoy as well.
    Having never done Memoria, I would be inclined to put him in the accelerated program, but change to First Form Latin (hopefully it would be an "easier" subject for him) and the beginning books for all the English language arts subjects. Would that be too much considering we are new to Memoria? Am I missing something else I should know?


    Thanks so much!

    #2
    Hello, and welcome! We would be glad to help with your transition. Here are some thoughts for you:

    1) If you decide to switch to our writing, your son will need to do Classical Composition: Fable Stage. You can look at samples here to see if you think this would be a good fit for him: https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...teacher-guide/

    2) I think the science, literature, and classical studies from 5th Accelerated/6th Regular are perfect for him. You definitely want to stick with Famous Men of the Middle Ages alongside that medieval lit since it works together so well.

    3) First Form Latin is a good fit too, but don't expect it to be easy for him. I hope he enjoys it, but it is also a lot of work.

    4) Our English Grammar Recitation program is written to supplement Latin since we feel Latin teaches grammar better than English. So it would be a good fit alongside FFL. And I would start with English Grammar I since this is an area of tension with you. This is the subject that can be a little easier for him and really solidify those English grammar rules. We aren't looking for mastery of application at all - just memorization of rules that we will be applying in Latin grammar.

    5) I think that Traditional Spelling is a great fit for your son. It will be nice for you to have a change since this is a subject he struggles with. And the lessons are easily broken down by day, so it won't be too much work and is very structured.

    6) Geography I will not be too much work. It is a nice break from writing since it is a workbook of maps, and all that is required of students is memorizing the map locations and capitals of the countries. I think he will enjoy it!

    Overall, I don't know that you need us! You have made beautiful decisions for your son and seem to be totally in tune with his needs. As you look further into the curriculum and have further questions, we will be glad to answer them for you!

    Tanya

    Comment


      #3
      For handwriting: he might enjoy MP's Teach Yourself Cursive. It's meant for those 10+ who would like to improve their handwriting. Does he say his hands hurt or that they're tired?
      Jennifer
      Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

      2021-2022
      DS18: Almost done!
      DS17: MP, MPOA
      DS15: MP, MPOA
      DS12: Mix of SC 5/6 & SC 7/8
      DD11: Mix of 5M and SC7/8
      DD9: SC3
      DD6: MPK

      Comment


        #4
        Thank you so much, Tanya! I have a couple more questions if I can take a bit more of your time.
        • Would you recommend the suggested Christian Studies III or starting at I? He has a fairly firm grip on Genesis-Leviticus, but limited map-work. (I will be starting his little sister on Book I when we start).
        • Are the supplemental read-alouds and American Studies scheduled or extra? Do people generally do all of them? I'm coming from AO, so I like the idea of reading every book we can. I just don't know what's reasonable to expect.
        • Are there any red-flags about putting a third grader new to memoria in the accelerated program? I see we have the option to scale back. She has to work harder at reading and is quite a perfectionist. I have to affirm her has she goes or she simply shuts down. I only have two children though, so I can generally accommodate it. When she is relaxed and plugging away, she surprises us all! She is one of the reasons I am making this move to Memoria. As I type, I think I am leaning toward trying the accelerated program to see how she does.

        Thank you, Jen. I will check that out! His hands don't hurt and he is fairly proficient at cursive, he just doesn't care to spend the time doing it neatly. I saw a recommendation for nice erasable pens for final drafts and I may consider that as well.

        Comment


          #5
          Welcome to MP! You will find many common threads from AO built in to the Memoria Press approach. Classical Composition incorporates narration as a way to hone rhetorical skills and summarize and retell a story in the student's own words. Up through at least 3rd, students copy sentences that have correct capitalization, punctuation, spelling and grammar. Likewise, art study, dictation, living history books, read alouds and a thorough study of history retain the best of the CM approach. Your son should find many of the skills and topics familiar. With that said, a compelling case could be made to stick with the 5th grade moderated track in Memoria Press.

          1) It has the majority of the subjects you plan to do, which will streamline your day and reduce toggling between multiple sets of lesson plans.

          2) It will allow your son to slowly increase his writing stamina.

          3) It will teach him how to answer lit guide and history (Famous Men series) comprehension questions, as well as highlight and study vocabulary and key people, places, dates and map points. It is a little bit like starting at the beginning. He will not be missing Roman history, which is exciting for guys (and my gal).

          4) Heidi and Lassie are the two guides that oversee the switch from straight recall to analysis, application and higher order thinking (deduction, induction, etc). They also lay a fabulous foundation for understanding the geography of the United Kingdom and parts of Europe. Completing Geography I before moving into Adam of the Road, Door in the Wall, Robin Hood and King Arthur (and FMMA) make understanding the history and narratives all the more relatable.

          5) The Accelerated track weans students off of word banks by 5th, so it is a bit more challenging year to jump into than 5M. On 5A literature quizzes, students are required to come up with 10+ vocabulary words off of the top of their heads with only a one- to two-word definition. This is very different from the literature of 5M, where definitions and vocabulary are matching or fill-in-the-blank. Famous Men of Rome and Christian Studies II also have word banks. These go away come Famous Men of the Middle Ages.

          I could never talk anyone out of the 6M/5A year. It is hands down my favorite year to date. However, if you are planning on beginning two students in MP next year with a reluctant writer, an incredible choice would be 5M. Whichever plan you choose, he's going to have a great year.
          Mama of 2, teacher of 3

          SY 21/22
          5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
          MP1

          Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
          SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

          Comment


            #6
            Hello again!

            You can start Christian Studies anywhere since it isn't really cumulative. CSIII is the New Testament, so it is a fine place to start. The only thing you might consider is that this is a course that you can combine students in, so that would ease your day a little to do this one together. And you could do CSI (Genesis - Deuteronomy) or CSIII, whichever you're most interested in. If you go with CSIII, your daughter can go back and do CSI-II the next two years. CSII is the most challenging because it is the part of the Bible we don't know much about. We pretty much nail the stories at the beginning in Sunday School, and of course, we spend a lot of time on Jesus in church, but those prophets, judges, the fall of Jerusalem and exile - all that stuff is not covered nearly as much. So an easier start with so much new curriculum would be CSI or CSIII.

            We do schedule the supplemental read-alouds, but not everyone does them. We deliberately chose the American studies books to be on the students' reading level so they could experience those independently. I would say that they are a great addition to your school, but maybe don't start off trying to get them done until you get into a good routine and see how much time you have. You will be doing a lot of reading aloud between the Golden Children's Bible, literature (students will a good portion of these aloud), classical studies, and science. You can choose what is student-read and what you read to them. We just recommend that your students read aloud daily, that they hear you read to them daily, and that they do some silent reading (which many times can be a reread of previous literature chapters).

            I think the 3rd grade accelerated program is fine to try if you have a preference for it. You will know pretty quickly if it is too fast a pace for your student, and if it is, we would be glad to send you the curriculum guide for the moderated pace so you can easily make the switch. You will know within a month! And the books will be the same. It is truly a switch in pace only, so feel free to try whichever you would like.

            Keep the questions coming! We want to help!

            Tanya

            Comment


              #7
              Tanya gave you some great advice. She's the pro (and the force behind so much of Memoria Press' greatness).

              Having done the accelerated program 3 years now, I think a mama of 2 could absolutely take a motivated student through the track. You just have to be the most energetic one about it and be willing to triage the essentials if things get hairy. Definitely prioritize writing down answers to questions and memory work that will appear on quizzes and tests. Discuss the rest orally if the workload is too great. I love the read louds and supplemental American History readers. We did all of them, but it was not during the school year. I usually read or assigned them the summer before the grade level. The order of the read-aloud novels is not important. The only exception was the picture books in 3A. We read those as they came up in the guide (usually in the evenings).

              Consider doing CSI with both kids. There are concordant passages in the margins of the teacher's manual that your 5th grader can look up and read to deepen his understanding of the Word.

              If your rising 3rd grader is a natural speller, the 1-yr pace of US State and Capitals will be a fun challenge. If, however, your child struggles with this, consider adding states as bonus words on spelling tests, doing plenty of oral review that is fun (bounce a ball together or review them on a walk), and get MP's practice map pad so your student can repeatedly write the spellings of these difficult state names.
              Mama of 2, teacher of 3

              SY 21/22
              5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
              MP1

              Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
              SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

              Comment


                #8
                Thank you so much! This has been helpful as I attempt to manage this transition well.
                I purchased FMOR (I think I might be figuring out the acronyms) to start with him this year to help ease us into both longer school days and the flow of Memoria Press. After looking at it, I believe it would work nicely with what he has been reading the last two years and has scheduled for the rest of the year. Thank you so much,
                enbateau
                Senior Member
                enbateau , for suggesting it! I really appreciate your practical help as well. I'll purchase the map pad as well as include the other literature during the summer. The kids are much more pleasant when they have a little required of them each summer day anyway. I'll also start adding states to spelling when we start back up. Great ideas! "I need to be the most energetic one," may have to be my mantra next year.


                tanya
                MP Representative
                tanya , you said to keep the questions coming, so here are a few more:
                • I am doing to switch everything to MP next year. That being said, I am leaning toward finishing our year with IEW as I see it is required in a younger grade with MP. We would then start this fall with CC I. Does that seem reasonable?
                • We have been happy with Singapore Math and planned to continue that. Would there be a reason to change to Rod & Staff, particularly for my rising third grader? We will be adding the drills from MP and Rod & Staff when we begin school again after break. My daughter will finish 3B this year, but long division has been a challenge and she often still uses base ten blocks. My son will be finishing 5B and has really done well with it.
                • Are Latin, English Grammar Recitation, and CC independent in regards to schedule or is it important to stay in the same week for all of them? (My computer is being difficult and not letting me add the final bullet!) Last question: For lit readings, I should require actual reading as opposed to audio books–correct?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hello again!

                  1) You are correct that you would start with the Fable Stage in the fall. The main thing we want to get from IEW is the key word outlining. If your student can do that, you will be good to go with Fable. There is an outline in every lesson, and then students rewrite the fable using their outline, so it helps if they are familiar with the concept.

                  2) No need to switch up your math. If you have found a math program that works for you, I would recommend that you stick to it, especially with so much changing. It is a good idea to add Memoria Math Challenge though because those daily drills will really solidify math facts, which is our goal before the more abstract math in middle school.

                  3) Latin, EGR, and CC are all independent, so you should treat them separately and not worry about it. Sometimes, you will introduce grammar concepts in Latin first, and sometimes, students will see them first in English grammar. The key is to be aware of that and point out the connection - regardless of which is introduced first.

                  4) Lit readings should not be audiobooks. This is the time when we are working on good fluent reading out loud by students, so they need to read some to you every day if possible. Work on expression, pauses, projecting the voice, etc. If chapters are long, you can read a page, and then have your student read a page, or assign character parts and you read the narration. Our students read aloud all the way through because learning to read Shakespeare and Homer and Dante aloud is another whole skill set! That said, we are not at all opposed to audiobooks! People use them for Greek Myths and read aloud selections and sometimes rereading the lit selections. I know one of our families uses audiobooks for rereading at night in bed.

                  Tanya

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you! It seems as though the Latin DVDs are meant for student instruction and the Classical Composition DVDs are meant for instructor training. Is that accurate?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Both sets of videos can be used for independent instruction, but Classical Composition does make for a better course when some discussion is had with a parent or live educator. For what it's worth, there are new streaming videos (redone by Abigail Johnson) for Classical Composition. I don't know how many have been redone, but this is the link to the Narrative, 2nd Edition Instructional Videos. These are perfect for a student to use independently, especially if the student completes parts of the assignment and goes back through the video to check his work. Alternately, a student can pause the video as each component is gone through, answer in the workbook, then check his answers. The 1st edition DVDs by Brett Vaden are awesome (I have them), but that is where the idea that the DVDs were better for the teacher to watch ahead of time came from. Obviously, a parent will still need to proof drafts from Paraphrase, but the videos will offer some great examples.
                      enbateau
                      Senior Member
                      Last edited by enbateau; 12-27-2021, 12:51 PM.
                      Mama of 2, teacher of 3

                      SY 21/22
                      5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
                      MP1

                      Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
                      SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thank you! Perhaps my last question: Is there a schedule for poetry aside from the Curriculum Manuals?

                        I have decided (mostly) switch my 4th grader to Memoria next week utilizing some of the 4/5th grade material. This seems like a better time then after summer break. I made a schedule using the manuals and the individual subject lesson plans available for download, but I don't have the 4A manual, so I'm not sure where poetry fits for this year. We are sticking with AO lit this year, so he can finish the books he is in the middle of reading or has been looking forward to, so that wouldn't play a role in poetry selection yet. His sister will be a rising third grader next year if that matters.

                        Thanks!
                        Danielle

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Poetry is in with the literature. If you bought the plans for individual novels ($2 ea), you should see each poem that is paired with that book. If you bought all the 5M literature lesson plans, they will also be tucked in there around Friday. LWW begins with the poem "To Think." Sometimes it's more affordable to get a CM just for those components that are tucked in with other subjects you aren't using.
                          Mama of 2, teacher of 3

                          SY 21/22
                          5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
                          MP1

                          Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
                          SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It’s always embarrassing to make typos on a forum like this! I’ll blame it on rewriting my son’s entire school semester in a short period of time.

                            Thank you! I thought I’d wait until my daughter is in fourth and buy the whole package, but it looks like I bought a large chunk of that material for this year anyway. I’ll purchase the CM. You have been so helpful and encouraging. I really appreciate it!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Join the club, friend! I think I had purchased all of the next school year's materials in February for my eldest. I found MP materials in the spring for my son, and the more I read about MP, the more pieces I started weaving in for my eldest. Soon, I found that I had all but 3 components, cut my losses, sold the brand new materials I had purchased for a considerable loss, and plowed headlong into MP for both kids. I even went back and picked up some pieces from the grade before to complete over the summer. All these years later, my kids are such fans of MP that it's impossible to stray. We've found our happy place.

                              P.S.--If you've purchased a couple of digital lesson plans that are in one guide and want to own the entire manual, give them a call when their offices open back up. They *may* be able to credit you what you've spent on those toward the paper copy since they usually come as a free download when you purchase the CM and the accompanying subjects. MP staff are superheroes at getting you what you need for the best price.
                              Mama of 2, teacher of 3

                              SY 21/22
                              5A w/ SFL & CC Narrative class
                              MP1

                              Completed MPK, MP1 Math & Enrichment, MP2, 3A, 4A
                              SC B, SC C, SC1 (Phonics/Math), SC2's Writing Book 1

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