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Jumping into Novare in 8th grade, sequence?

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  • bean
    replied
    Also Dorinda,

    https://sarah40.wordpress.com/about/
    I think this aligns with the chemistry book you have.

    Leave a comment:


  • bean
    replied
    We used Georgia Public like we would Derek Owens. Dd watched the videos and took notes in the note taking guides then did the assignments. For physics, we didn't try to match it up with the book. We mostly used the book as a second explanation and a source of homework problems since there were enough in the book with solutions that we didn't need any teacher materials. We did jump around a little because Dd's lab partner was using a different book. GPB has video labs. Dd did some of those and also watched some of the GPB labs before doing it in real life. For Chem, we mostly followed the book and rearranged the GPB sections to align.

    Kit we used for Chem:
    https://www.thehomescientist.com/kits.php
    The kit was fine, but microchem is a very small scale. We had the girls write full lab reports. I know there are different kits that have fill in the blank labs if that gets it done for you. (Quality Science Labs).

    Physics book we used (Cheap from HPB)
    https://www.amazon.com/Glencoe-Physi...4290424&sr=8-3

    For Chem, we used World of Chem, but I think it's the same text as Introductory Chem by the same authors.

    If I had it to do over again, I probably would have done Derek Owens for Physics. We liked his Physical Science. The Georgia Public materials were fine (and cheap!), but we ended up using them two years in a row. Dd was on the young side, and the GPB teacher is goofy in a science teacher kind of way. It was perfect for her, but her lab friend is 3 years older and wasn't a fan.
    Last edited by bean; 10-15-2021, 05:54 AM.

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  • Mom2mthj
    replied
    Originally posted by bean View Post
    We ended up doing:

    ASPC- Labs with friends who are engineers. We ended rewriting almost all of them. We finished the year with Georgia Public Broadcasting's program and a good-but-standard public school physics text.
    Chemistry with Georgia Public Broadcasting and Zumdahl. We used the microchem kit from home scientist.
    Biology with MP's Holt Book, Modern States CLEP prep and home-brewed labs
    General Chem DE (Zumdahl)
    University Physic DE (Gianccoli)
    Did you just watch the videos for chemistry from GPB? We they easy to line up with the text? I have had the page with the videos up on my iPad for a few weeks, but haven’t had time to preview or decide whether to buy the teacher resources. I located a an older edition of Zumdahl Introductory Chemistry -student, teacher, and solutions, super cheap this summer, but I am thinking we will wait until my third form Latin class ends in a month or so before we dive in. I must admit to being a bit nervous to start because it has been a long time since I had Chemistry…I really liked it, but it has been a long time. I still look at The Spectrum because it all comes in a nice box all laid out and student led, but it is probably me just procrastinating jumping in with what I have. I should check out the lab kit you mentioned.

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  • bean
    replied
    We ended up doing:

    ASPC- Labs with friends who are engineers. We ended rewriting almost all of them. We finished the year with Georgia Public Broadcasting's program and a good-but-standard public school physics text.
    Chemistry with Georgia Public Broadcasting and Zumdahl. We used the microchem kit from home scientist.
    Biology with MP's Holt Book, Modern States CLEP prep and home-brewed labs
    General Chem DE (Zumdahl)
    University Physic DE (Gianccoli)

    Leave a comment:


  • Enigma
    replied
    I am agreeing with Mom2mthj- the books are not exactly home education friendly at all. Great for a school, not for at home. Our experience with Earth Science and Physical Science was similar to hers. We jumped ship for Apologia self-paced (puffy heart) and BJU dlo (I do NOT reccommend!) courses. Rainbow is the one I used with my oldest. HUGE HUGE boxes of supplies!

    Leave a comment:


  • sycamore
    replied
    Mom2mthj Thank you so much for taking the time to share this perspective. I was wondering about the at-home aspect of this. I was planning to put DD in online classes for the high school, but I see what you mean about the labs! I have heard other places they are very intense. I love the theory and math of science and always did well in math & science classes, but I don't like experiments (sorry) and am definitely coming to appreciate the reality of balancing everything for my three kids (including one with dyslexia and ADHD, for whom I'm doing reading intervention). So this perspective is really helpful. Thank you. I will look at the other resource you mentioned too! My older daughter is in a co-op and loving it and getting her labs there, so that's been good all around.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mom2mthj
    replied
    Originally posted by bean View Post

    Yes, Beorn is correct. The algebra "consolidation course" doesn't happen until after course 13. I suspect your dd could handle the algebra before then, but you might need to supplement.

    My dd only did through Mappings because she didn't start EMF until she was in Algebra 2. The program has only been complete for a couple years. She moved on to the eImacs University Computer Science/ Calculus after that.

    It is my understanding that Aplogia Physical Science teaches quite a bit of math as it goes along, so it might be worth looking at that text as a physical science option and then continuing with Novare.

    We used one year of Novare, and it wasn't a great fit for my dd. It was the ACPC, so not one of the MP books, though.


    Sycamore, I really like that you are planning out a path for science (what order for subjects), but in regard to the bolded comment, be flexible with your implementation. I really, really, really wanted to love Novare, but I just haven’t found them to live up to the hype. Some of it is me and some of it is the books. Two of my kids have tried the Physical Science book (previous edition to what is now available) and it was not a good fit for either one of them. In trying to help kid 2 I actually started reading the text with the intent to answer the questions rather than just to read as I had done prior to purchasing or with my daughter because he was my kid that struggled early on with reading. Sadly, I had blown off my daughter’s comments and impressions and avoidance of completing the book. At times I found that the explanations were overly wordy and sometimes reading the text and the the section questions I really had no clue what the author was trying to get them to come with for an answer. I really expected that my son had just missed something, but I had to go read the sample answers to figure out what he wanted. The content was middle school level, but I expected that end of section questions to be answerable by a middle school student using only the material presented. We also used ASPC (the older version that Bean spoke of above) once and Earth Science and I own Chemistry. I think part of the problem is that Novare really assumes a classroom to bring things together. I think the books would be a great spine to teach from and many places like MPOA use them for online classes. A classroom teacher could easily address most of the issues I have, but with multiple kids I don’t have the time or inclination to fill that role. FWIW, I have a master’s in mechanical engineering so I could do it, but I don’t have time. We abandoned the book after a few chapters. Novare can be used at home, but personally I don’t get the impression that Mayes himself thinks the books are sufficient for self teaching. I didn’t get the same impression of Earth Science - my son who completed this book really liked it, but it was a different author. Be aware, that the labs involved in the Physics/Chemistry books require lots of equipment and many are not appropriate for home completion…we certainly were not going to instrument a vehicle and get a bunch of friends to push it around in an empty parking lot. I am not sure how most schools could do that one. That was one of the early labs in the physics/ASPC book. You will need to spend some time to come up with alternate labs, probably a set from Home Science tools. It will be interesting to see what CAP does with the series since they do have a large homeschool base. This year my 8th grader and I are using year 1 of The Rainbow from Beginnings publishing with a friend as a do over on Physical Science and are really liking it.

    sorry to be such a downer-they are beautiful books with a large following, just a heads up that there are some issues to be aware of as you try out Novare.

    Leave a comment:


  • bean
    replied
    Originally posted by sycamore View Post
    bean Thanks for your reply! I appreciate your insight on the transcript etc. down the road. This makes a lot of sense, and I am in no rush to bump anyone out f the best or rush anyone through education to get to “the next thing.”

    When you say she won’t have enough algebra w/ EMF do you mean she won’t have enough at all? They have free supplemental courses called pre-algebra and algebra that unlock at a certain point (though I don’t know when that point is!), but there are also the courses in the regular sequence called algebra concepts… Or do you mean she won’t have enough by next year to do the Intro Physics? She’s currently almost done with ordered n-tuples—just has review & quiz left.

    Thank you!
    Yes, Beorn is correct. The algebra "consolidation course" doesn't happen until after course 13. I suspect your dd could handle the algebra before then, but you might need to supplement.

    My dd only did through Mappings because she didn't start EMF until she was in Algebra 2. The program has only been complete for a couple years. She moved on to the eImacs University Computer Science/ Calculus after that.

    It is my understanding that Aplogia Physical Science teaches quite a bit of math as it goes along, so it might be worth looking at that text as a physical science option and then continuing with Novare.

    We used one year of Novare, and it wasn't a great fit for my dd. It was the ACPC, so not one of the MP books, though.
    Last edited by bean; 10-14-2021, 06:02 AM.

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  • sycamore
    replied
    I read over the thread you mentioned, and some other threads, and started to muse: if DD is really in 7th grade now (as opposed to 8th--where she'd be if she'd stayed in co-op), then I wonder if we don't have a little more flexibility. As Beorn notices, yes, she did get a lot of earth science topics last year in Apologia, and a couple chapters each on physical science/life science. If we planned for Novare Physical Science NEXT year, in 8th, isntead of this year, then went into the Novare HS sequence for 9/10/11, leaving 12 for science of choice...we could do something else entirely this year, which was originally our plan anyway. We had wanted to do nature-focused study, but I didn't have a good curriculum and we found we just weren't organized or focused enough. It looks like there are some Tiner books that we could use for life science / nature topics this year geared toward grades 6-8...our goal had been to do a lot of nature/outside work anyway...and it's already mid-October. I don't want to set her back, but stretching out would also give her more time to work through the EMF math at her own pace and not have to rush to get through all the pre-algebra in time to do the Intro Physics next year. I wonder...

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  • Beorn
    replied
    There is one more thread I think would be helpful for you to read through, sycamore. Take a good read through Differing Science Paths:

    https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...ce-paths/page2

    Particularly take note of Cindy in Indy's posts at the end of page 1 and the one on page 2 of the thread.

    Also, take a look at CAP's sequencing statements here for the different pathways:

    https://novarescienceandmath.com/rec...math-sequence/

    There are truly many great courses and pathways available now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beorn
    replied
    sycamore, if you end up looking for a lab kit to go with Physical Science, I would suggest considering the following:

    https://www.homesciencetools.com/pro...ription-anchor

    Leave a comment:


  • Beorn
    replied
    Originally posted by sycamore View Post
    Thank you so much for your replies!

    Mom2mthj , I really appreciate your reflections on not pushing bright kids out of the nest too soon. I agree and it's a great point. Thank you for that. DD is a fall birthday and fit well academically in the bumped up co-op class...and she's an "old soul" intellectually... but definitely a young soul socially, and I think she could benefit from time to be at home, be a kid, explore her interests, etc. I will think more about this! I appreciate your thoughtful reply about sequencing the science. The earth science is definitely more where her interests lie right now.

    Beorn Thank you for taking the time to offer these thoughtful follow-up questions! I have looked over the TOCs for both Earth Science and Physical Science and the TOC from the Apologia General Science. It seems like the Apologia was heavier on the earth science topics, although there were definitely several chapters on basics of Physics and Chemistry...atoms, forces, etc. They did experiments and did the lab notebook, etc. I am not deeply familiar with the Apologia (I've never taught it myself and this was my first experience with it) so I don't know if the Novare would be a step up in terms of complexity and serve as a kind of "spiral" instead of just reviewing the same things. I will say the kids in the co-op where my daughter was last year are doing physical science this year for 8th/9th with an Apologia text.

    As far as your other questions, DD is a voracious reader and very interested in writing, literature, history, and religion, but is also very interested in nature and small-scale, sustainable agriculture, with some side interest in genetics (breeding animals, etc.).

    I actually think your suggested sequence of doing Earth, Physical, Intro Physics, Bio, Chem could serve her well. My only question was whether I could count the physical science as a high-school course in 9th grade so she could have four high-school science credits; however if we don't do a co-op again and consider her "back" in 7th grade this year, it would still be fine because we'd have another year after the chemistry to do another high-school science if we wanted to.

    I really appreciate everyone's thoughtfulness! Thank you again!
    You are very welcome, I hope you have found some helpful information here. And hope for more to come. As for high school credit, I would say the Introductory Physics course from Novare could for sure be considered for high school credit. As for Physical Science, I would say that it would be close. I think if you beefed it up some with labs, reading, etc. you could, but I would say as is, that it leans towards the middle school level. Perhaps someone else can chime in here more definitively?

    Thanks for the additional information you gave, that was helpful. With her interests, I would consider an Anatomy & Physiology course in her later years either in place of or following General Chemistry if you have the time. With how you described the Apologia course at co-op, I would probably pass on the Earth Science (unless there was something as you looked at the ES TOC that you/DD really wanted to cover) and jump in to Physical Science now, especially since it is October already. If DD's genetics interests continue to grow, I would say definitely Biology and also Anatomy & Physiology. Also a strong background from Physical Science and Introductory Physics will go a long way for your DD too. Just my thoughts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beorn
    replied
    Originally posted by sycamore View Post
    Beorn Thank you for taking the time to offer these thoughtful follow-up questions! I have looked over the TOCs for both Earth Science and Physical Science and the TOC from the Apologia General Science. It seems like the Apologia was heavier on the earth science topics, although there were definitely several chapters on basics of Physics and Chemistry...atoms, forces, etc. They did experiments and did the lab notebook, etc. I am not deeply familiar with the Apologia (I've never taught it myself and this was my first experience with it) so I don't know if the Novare would be a step up in terms of complexity and serve as a kind of "spiral" instead of just reviewing the same things. I will say the kids in the co-op where my daughter was last year are doing physical science this year for 8th/9th with an Apologia text.

    As far as your other questions, DD is a voracious reader and very interested in writing, literature, history, and religion, but is also very interested in nature and small-scale, sustainable agriculture, with some side interest in genetics (breeding animals, etc.).

    I actually think your suggested sequence of doing Earth, Physical, Intro Physics, Bio, Chem could serve her well. My only question was whether I could count the physical science as a high-school course in 9th grade so she could have four high-school science credits; however if we don't do a co-op again and consider her "back" in 7th grade this year, it would still be fine because we'd have another year after the chemistry to do another high-school science if we wanted to.

    I really appreciate everyone's thoughtfulness! Thank you again!
    You are very welcome, I hope you have found some helpful information here. And hope for more to come. As for high school credit, I would say the Introductory Physics course from Novare could for sure be considered for high school credit. As for Physical Science, I would say that it would be close. I think if you beefed it up some with labs, reading, etc. you could, but I would say as is, that it leans towards the middle school level. Perhaps someone else can chime in here more definitively?

    Thanks for the additional information you gave, that was helpful. With her interests, I would consider an Anatomy & Physiology course in her later years either in place of or following General Chemistry if you have the time. With how you described the Apologia course at co-op, I would probably pass on the Earth Science (unless there was something as you looked at the ES TOC that you/DD really wanted to cover) and jump in to Physical Science now, especially since it is October already. If DD's genetics interests continue to grow, I would say definitely Biology and also Anatomy & Physiology. Also a strong background from Physical Science and Introductory Physics will go a long way for your DD too. Just my thoughts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beorn
    replied
    Originally posted by sycamore View Post
    Or do you mean she won’t have enough by next year to do the Intro Physics?
    I will let bean confirm for herself, but I am guessing she meant the above.

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  • sycamore
    replied
    bean Thanks for your reply! I appreciate your insight on the transcript etc. down the road. This makes a lot of sense, and I am in no rush to bump anyone out f the best or rush anyone through education to get to “the next thing.”

    When you say she won’t have enough algebra w/ EMF do you mean she won’t have enough at all? They have free supplemental courses called pre-algebra and algebra that unlock at a certain point (though I don’t know when that point is!), but there are also the courses in the regular sequence called algebra concepts… Or do you mean she won’t have enough by next year to do the Intro Physics? She’s currently almost done with ordered n-tuples—just has review & quiz left.

    Thank you!

    Leave a comment:

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