Stuck on Second Form Latin

[wycheck]

Wow, thanks everyone! Looks like I have another purchase and some work to do. I was hoping to teach myself Logic, but this seems more pressing.

P.S. When did the second edition come out? I bought our SFL last year. I actually bought a workbook for myself, but haven't used it.

[enbateau]

I feel like it came out in May or June or this year. It was pretty recent.

[howiecram]

Late to the party on this one! . I personally took the adult FFL last last summer. Around mid-way through the class I pretty much fell off the wagon. As it turns out my daughter did fine "teaching herself" with the DVDs, new FFL workbook. I did have her do flashcards basically every day and included in her stack the Latin Recitation Flashcards (do you have these?). I did about 1 or 2x a week orally do the drill questions at the back of the answer key. (I just realize, perhaps your child did not do the NEW FFL workbook, but the First Edition?). My whole point here is that I was pretty hands off and she hung in there, but we did not finish the last unit. (2nd Conjugation verbs). I did also realize that the 3rd, 4th and 5th declension were a little rusty. We are moving forward this year with 2nd Conjugation words, but we are also reviewing heavily the 3rd-5th declension nouns.

On my own journey, I realized how genius the program is. In FFL you only do nominative for a good portion of the book. (which gives you LOTS AND LOTS of practice in easily identifying nominative forms). Then, accusative is added in. Anyway, this past summer I signed up for the adult second form class. All the while during the summer I went BACK to FFL and re-did the workbook, quizzes (they come as a download) and wrote out the declensions almost every.single.day. I couldn't believe how "easy" FFL felt, but the review was great and I could do the worksheets very quickly. I understand it may discourage your son to redo all this work, but you might consider a 10 min mixed review everyday and include some of the worksheets as part of this. Also, divide the FFL vocabulary between 5 days and do 1 stack a day, in addition to the new words in SFL.

Lastly, there is a Second Form Adult class beginning next Thursday! I found it incredibly helpful to take the class!!!!! It meets on Thursdays from 3-4:30EST. If you could attend most of the classes, you will really benefit. If you have to miss a few, you can watch the recording before the next class. Another option, if the class time doesn't work is to take it "asynchronously" - which means you always just watch the recording. I do really recommend taking the class live, if you can, but it's still extremely beneficial if you can't "attend". (to find the class, go to the MPOA site and find the "adult" classes).

[wycheck]

Question about the second edition: is the student text different from the first? Do we need 2nd ed. workbook, tests, and answer key PLUS teacher's manual and text? Should I just get the basic SFL set? (I don't really want an extra purchase, but God willing there will be at least 3 more children using the program.)

[howiecram]

Question about the second edition: is the student text different from the first? Do we need 2nd ed. workbook, tests, and answer key PLUS teacher's manual and text? Should I just get the basic SFL set? (I don't really want an extra purchase, but God willing there will be at least 3 more children using the program.)

The Student Text and Teacher's manual are not updated. You only need a 2nd ed. Workbook. (but because you get a new workbook, you need a new answer key...and a new test booklet (but these came as a download for me.. - the answer key will have the workbook, test and quizzes). Here is the link to the answer key. https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...econd-edition/

[wycheck]

Which came as a download? Did they come as part of the adult class?

Also, do you know if the pronunciation CD is substantially different from the first ed. since the text is the same? Thank you.

[wycheck]

Are there any plans for second edition texts? My son wants me to get another FFL text because his is falling apart and he still refers to it a lot. Thanks.

[howiecram]

Which came as a download? Did they come as part of the adult class?

Also, do you know if the pronunciation CD is substantially different from the first ed. since the text is the same? Thank you.

The test/quiz booklet I have as a download. (I actually have printed it a few times and I use them for review). It did not come with the adult class for sure, but I don't know "which" item I bought from FFL that included the test/quiz as a download. That would be one you might need to call MP about. The CD would match the text, not the workbook, so it should be just fine as well!

[tanya]

Hello.

The download to the quizzes comes when you purchase the quiz book. This is so you can make clean copies of them.

We have no plans to make a new edition of the Forms texts. The content and the order in which we teach it should remain the same.

Tanya

[enbateau]

It sounds like you're on the right path.

Ha! And to correct a typo, the genitive nouns usually go before the noun they modify, not after. Poor Mr. Christianson. It would have looked like I quoted him wrong, and I would not like to do that!

My only extra thought would be that Lesson IX, Drill A (p.65) deserves a note on parsing since students have never encountered this in FFL or SFL. It is left to the Teacher Key for parents to decipher that (unlike personal pronouns, which get parsed with PNC--person, number, case) the PPA's get parsed with PGNC, and the person (P) is the person AND number of the pronoun itself (its antecedent), while the gender, number and case will match the nouns they modify. Bullet 4 in the SFL student text made it seem like we'd be largely ignoring the antecedent to focus on the noun the PPA modified. There is also no note for the student to be warned that parsing will be changed from PNC to PGNC. *There is a note on parsing personal pronouns (L. 7, Worksheet 4, VI. Translation Exercises, p. 55). Something like that would be helpful for teachers and students when switching to PPA's.

[Jon Christianson]

It sounds like you're on the right path.

Ha! And to correct a typo, the genitive nouns usually go before the noun they modify, not after. Poor Mr. Christianson. It would have looked like I quoted him wrong, and I would not like to do that!

My only extra thought would be that Lesson IX, Drill A (p.65) deserves a note on parsing since students have never encountered this in FFL or SFL. It is left to the Teacher Key for parents to decipher that (unlike personal pronouns, which get parsed with PNC--person, number, case) the PPA's get parsed with PGNC, and the person (P) is the person AND number of the pronoun itself (its antecedent), while the gender, number and case will match the nouns they modify. Bullet 4 in the SFL student text made it seem like we'd be largely ignoring the antecedent to focus on the noun the PPA modified. There is also no note for the student to be warned that parsing will be changed from PNC to PGNC. *There is a note on parsing personal pronouns (L. 7, Worksheet 4, VI. Translation Exercises, p. 55). Something like that would be helpful for teachers and students when switching to PPA's.

Speaking of typos, I think the SFL text is wrong on this one. My understanding is that genitives typically do follow the noun they modify! At least classically speaking, that certainly is the norm for the possessive genitive; it varies for other uses of the genitive, but the guidance in SFL specifically mentions the possessive... I'll dig around and see if there's a reason it says this (perhaps there's some post-classical convention with which I am unfamiliar), but this may require a fix.

The parsing of PPAs definitely needs a dash of clarity. I'll see to it.

[wycheck]

Hello again. We are starting over with SFL, 2nd ed. for my son. My daughter has just reached Lesson 13 (adjectives) in Latina Christiana. I'm wondering if the second edition might be more helpful here, also. I appreciate the short assignments in LC, but I feel that she doesn't get much practice. I have more comments about the video lessons for LC, but perhaps that should be in a separate thread.

[tanya]

Hello.

For LC, you could add the Latina Christiana Review Worksheets. That is two pages of extra reinforcement every week. Also, Ludere is a fun games book that will provide further review. Are you using these resources?

Tanya

[wycheck]

No, I'm not Tanya. Thanks for the ideas! Do you think 1st and 2nd editions are substantially different for LC? Are the videos the same?

[momgineer]

No, I'm not Tanya. Thanks for the ideas! Do you think 1st and 2nd editions are substantially different for LC? Are the videos the same?

LC is actually in fourth edition. It is not set up to be like the Forms. With LC you have the student book for very basic Intro Latin, but for more practice you can add in the review sheets and games book. The review sheets are nice because they give much more practice each week that includes all the stuff they have learned up to that point. The games book has crosswords and seek and finds and things like that. Keep in mind that LC is an intro course and not a mastery course. Everything in LC will be retaught as if they don’t know it in the Forms. So in each Forms book, it is imperative to master the material each lesson. With LC, it will be taught again so whatever they learn/remember just makes First Form easier but isn’t necessary. That knowledge might help take some pressure off the LC student.