Math Placement Help

[empokorski]

I am new to Rod and Staff. I have a daughter who will be doing MP4 this coming year and I wanted to see if she could handle Math4. We were using Teaching Textbooks previously and I had read that TT is about a tear behind other math programs. Knowing this, I gave her the R&S placement test from Milestone books. She did pretty well one everything except the multiple digit multiplication and division.
Example: Problem said 58*6. She forgot wheee to start. I asked her and she told me she should multiply 6*8. So she did, but then she carried the 8 and dropped the 4 into the ones place. So, we discussed 4-TY 8 and she could tell that it was 4 tens. So, the she remembered and did the next one fine.
Division Example: 84/6
She couldn’t remember how to set it up but she knew the symbol. So we drew the symbol and talked about what goes where. I had to walk her through the whole process. This was division with no remainders.

My questions is whether or not I should start her in Math 3 and just expedite any lessons she shows mastery for and just finish it as quickly as possible before moving on to Math 4.

OR

Practice multi-digit multiplication/long division problems for the entire month of August so that she is proficient in those two tough spots and just have her start with Math 4.

Keep in mind: last Spring she struggled off and on to remember how to do these problems but as we worked through it she was doing them proficiently. The division was the greater struggle for her. As for math facts, she has done Xtramath and has passed addition/subtraction and was at 98% for multiplication before we stopped.

Any tips as I have never taught this curriculum. I am hoping I can pick it up pretty quickly as I love math and am an Engineer by degree. So, I do enjoy math, but I haven’t yet found a kid who agrees with me…haha.

Thanks!

DS(16)-SC4
DS(13)-SC9/10
DD(11)-MP4
DS(8)-MP2(or SC4)
DS(2)…cutest interrupter…

[enbateau]

R&S 3 has a bit of the multi-digit mult/division toward the end, but it really comes to life for students in R&S 4. I love the systematic and incremental way in which Rod & Staff teaches multiplication and division procedures. Just remind your student that you are pulling out sets of a number (the divisor) from the whole pile (dividend) and that the quotient is how much will be in each set. R&S really drills putting the quotient above the ones place of the number of which you are able to pull out a full set of the divisor.

My daughter enjoyed two examples for concept: candies in a pile (dividend), goodie bags (divisor), and how many candies are in each bag (quotient). The R&S example uses cherry pie. How many cherries are in the whole pie (dividend), how many equally-sized slices you cut the pie into (divisor), and the equal number of cherries in each slice (quotient).

I always tell my student that when you have your multiplication facts fully memorized, you are able to get closer to guessing (seeing) the correct number of times to pull out that set. I think all of the practice with division with no remainders really helps them "see" the pattern, the factors, and the lowest terms with fractions.

If I were in your shoes, I would keep fresh any and all multiplication and division facts up through 12 x 12 and 144/12. If she keeps forgetting all procedures, sure, back up to the middle end of R&S 3 to work those multi-digit multiplication problems. Otherwise, when you order the set for R&S Arithmetic 4, don't skip the Speed Drill Reproducible Blacklines. Run off front and back copies of 100 mixed facts to do every single weekday this summer and continue it through the year. For my student, computer math did not translate to mastery the way paper math did. I know MP is working to put out Memoria Math Challenge for 3rd and 4th. I cannot wait. In the meantime, 200 daily facts from the speed drill Blacklines are great.

In the Teacher's Manual of Arithmetic 4 there are daily warm-up problems that will help keep all of this fresh throughout the year. Don't skip it.

[empokorski]

enbateau Thanks! That is really helpful. I am wishing I had done Rod & Staff from the beginning, but I already owned MUS which has also served us well. I do think the writing will help her. In TT I noticed that not having to write a ton meant she tried to do a bunch of them in her head. I also noticed she definitely does need to review her multiplication facts as she was trying to do 9*4 and I saw her thinking about it. My personal “brain preference” is to jump to 10*4 and subtract out the 4 to get to 9*4. I already have it memorized though. I tried to explain my method to her and she told me, “No, it is easier for me to do 18+18 in my head.” What??? Haha. My brain could not comprehend that and in the moment I didn’t want to fight so I said, “Wow. OK.” However, her way of doing it took her a few minutes. So, I can see already that will not be acceptable. We have to get them down so they are automatic. I think you might be right that hand writing them out is potentially part of the solution. I have another child who will be doing R&S3. I think I will order 2 student workbooks so if I feel like she needs it, I can back up and use it. Otherwise I can hold it for my next younger who will do it the following year. Thanks!

[enbateau]

It's a great idea to get two of the student textbooks. MP bundles the student text with supplemental worksheets to eliminate confusion, but some parents confuse the "worksheets" book alone for the text when buying elsewhere.

The goal is to start copying the entire problem into a notebook (using 4 quad graphing paper to keep columns and place values tidy) by midyear. Many families treat the hardback student text as consumable until the student is ready for near-point copy work. Since you're looking for review, definitely feel free to have her write in it all year.

If you already know this, I apologize for being overly thorough.