Chose LFF instead of LC and Do I have long days ahead?

[KrisTom]

Hi Ladies,

Just wondered if you could help me figure out if maybe I am taking on too much for myself and for my son.

My son, who will be 10 next year, will be learning Latin for the first time. As I was looking through the curriculum, I decided to purchase LFF instead of LC, though many did suggest LC. In the moment, it appeared logical, but now I am second guessing myself. I was told LFF was a great first course, but seeing that I didn't study Latin, is this going to be harder for me to teach than LC? Should I exchange the materials or just go slower through LFF? I can see it taking us longer than a day just to get the vowel pronunciations down.
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On that note, my husband is concerned that this might be a good way to make our days last a long time. He knows that with 4 kids (3 presently school aged) that I get a little annoyed if our day goes anything beyond a public school day. I know learning takes time, but I also need to be realistic for our family.

Am I looking at a crazy long day with the following in addition to teaching two others (using Abeka/The Good and the Beautiful curriculums) and caring for a preschooler? How many subjects, lit studies, etc. do you take on?

Here is what we have for next year (4th):

Memoria Press:
Latin First Forms
English Grammar Recitation II

Cursive Copybook II (I imagine this won't take much time)
Spelling Workout E (might drop this and substitute for words in curriculum)

Composition - Fable I

Greek Myths
Poetry/Literature - Anthology plus we chose Paddington, A Cricket in Times Square, and Lassie Come Home (he really wanted Lassie) Should we plan on completing 1, 2, or all 3?
Christian Studies I

Geography I Should we even attempt to add in? It comes with our package.

From other curriculum publishers:
Grade 4 math
History (survey of ancient world history to American history)
Science Unit Studies

[enbateau]

What you have assembled sounds like a great year. I do think you're onto something by shelving First Form Latin (FFL) and saving it for next year. There's still time to order Latina Christiana with one-year plans. It seems like a much better fit for the ages of your children and your commitment to a full course load. We loved LC!

One small note on SWO E is that many of those words DO appear in the curriculum components. We have seen almost half of our spelling words in various readings each week.

As to literature, did you only get Cricket, Paddington and Lassie? The latter is the most advanced of the 4A/5M lit guides and might be best to complete after you've finished all of the others. Most grades schedule 3 novels per year, so do all of them. There are great lesson plans available to help you schedule these, but most people move at two chapters per week.

[KrisTom]

What you have assembled sounds like a great year. I do think you're onto something by shelving First Form Latin (FFL) and saving it for next year. There's still time to order Latina Christiana with one-year plans. It seems like a much better fit for the ages of your children and your commitment to a full course load. We loved LC!

One small note on SWO E is that many of those words DO appear in the curriculum components. We have seen almost half of our spelling words in various readings each week.

As to literature, did you only get Cricket, Paddington and Lassie? The latter is the most advanced of the 4A/5M lit guides and might be best to complete after you've finished all of the others. Most grades schedule 3 novels per year, so do all of them. There are great lesson plans available to help you schedule these, but most people move at two chapters per week.

Thank you so much! Do you think I should get LC, or would there be any benefit to just taking two years to do FFL? Or is everything easier about LC?

I noticed Lassie would be the most advanced - it is the longest, which is why I made him choose one from the third grade and fourth, lol. He really loves anything related to animals! That makes total sense to save it for last.

And thank you for the note about Spelling. I didn't know.

[howiecram]

It's a tough call on LC/FFL. I am in a similar predicament and ultimately end up in the same place either route you choose. I think I would do LC, except, if you can hang on a bit (late spring, early summer), the Simply Classical curriculum will have lesson plans for FFL that schedule 1/2 of it in a year. I think the teaching tips that would come with the digital plans might make it worth not needing to buy something new. Don't let "Simply Classical" fool you into thinking you can't use it either. You might find you don't need all the teaching aides, but as a 4th grader, you might find they come in handy and you will have a nice easy to follow schedule. It might actually be less overwhelming that trying to LC in 1 year.

Have you done EGR1? EGR isn't really designed to just pick a level and start there. You might find you move faster through level 1, but usually it's recommended to start with EGR 1. Another thought though is if you have the English Grammar Recitation book, it does include those questions from level 1 and maybe you just take some time and make sure it is all known, before moving on to EGR2. (Here is the book: https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...ar-recitation/) You might think about adding the Core Skills Language Arts, grade 4. It's a nice independent study book that will compliment the EGR/Latin. It's 1 page a day.

If you are doing Greek Myths and Christian Studies at the 1 year pace, the history curriculum might send you over the top on time. I might consider, if it is literature based, to schedule that only after you have a good rhythm with the other subjects, and maybe it is a listen to while eating lunch or before bedtime.

[KrisTom]

It's a tough call on LC/FFL. I am in a similar predicament and ultimately end up in the same place either route you choose. I think I would do LC, except, if you can hang on a bit (late spring, early summer), the Simply Classical curriculum will have lesson plans for FFL that schedule 1/2 of it in a year. I think the teaching tips that would come with the digital plans might make it worth not needing to buy something new. Don't let "Simply Classical" fool you into thinking you can't use it either. You might find you don't need all the teaching aides, but as a 4th grader, you might find they come in handy and you will have a nice easy to follow schedule. It might actually be less overwhelming that trying to LC in 1 year.

Have you done EGR1? EGR isn't really designed to just pick a level and start there. You might find you move faster through level 1, but usually it's recommended to start with EGR 1. Another thought though is if you have the English Grammar Recitation book, it does include those questions from level 1 and maybe you just take some time and make sure it is all known, before moving on to EGR2. (Here is the book: https://www.memoriapress.com/curricu...ar-recitation/) You might think about adding the Core Skills Language Arts, grade 4. It's a nice independent study book that will compliment the EGR/Latin. It's 1 page a day.

If you are doing Greek Myths and Christian Studies at the 1 year pace, the history curriculum might send you over the top on time. I might consider, if it is literature based, to schedule that only after you have a good rhythm with the other subjects, and maybe it is a listen to while eating lunch or before bedtime.

Thank you so much! This is super helpful. If SC comes out with a two year plan for it, that might be perfect for us to try first. I wasn't planning to start until late summer anyway. And looking at the sample answers in teacher manuals, I definitely am not going to be fooled by SC. It might be a great fit for my next in line. We are new to MP and therefore new to EGR. I did get the recitation manual in the mail today. He is currently using Abeka for grammar, and I think a lot of it is covered in his current grade. I think it might be helpful to go through the first part of the book as you mentioned. I'm waiting for the rest of the curriculum to show up, but it's starting to show up. I appreciate you sharing about Greek Myths and Christian Studies. The history curriculum I chose I'd consider "lighter" than the Abeka one we are using, so I do hope to fit it in. I was trying to figure out a way to do just as you suggest.

[enbateau]

As someone who is plowing through FFL right now, I totally recommend LC! It would be a stiff introduction to Latin for a fourth grader without prior experience. We want them to love it, enjoy it, and want to do hard things, not feel overwhelmed. I have a friend teaching FFL (w/ no prior Latin) to her 7th grader, and he is doing well, but the maturity and developmental readiness is so much different at that age! My personal opinion is that a slowed-down pace of any of these Latin levels is just as much work because you have to work just as hard to maintain knowledge that you first were introduced to over a year prior...sometimes two years prior! And it's not that they don't have to have mastery at all points in the program, but using your knowledge in different translations and review periods is exactly what makes the information stick! To me, half the written work means more oral work I have to make up for to keep the content fresh! I get better use out of taking a review week at a few pointed places in a one-year plan. But that is just me and my learner.

Have I mentioned you should get LC?

[KrisTom]

As someone who is plowing through FFL right now, I totally recommend LC! It would be a stiff introduction to Latin for a fourth grader without prior experience. We want them to love it, enjoy it, and want to do hard things, not feel overwhelmed. I have a friend teaching FFL (w/ no prior Latin) to her 7th grader, and he is doing well, but the maturity and developmental readiness is so much different at that age! My personal opinion is that a slowed-down pace of any of these Latin levels is just as much work because you have to work just as hard to maintain knowledge that you first were introduced to over a year prior...sometimes two years prior! And it's not that they don't have to have mastery at all points in the program, but using your knowledge in different translations and review periods is exactly what makes the information stick! To me, half the written work means more oral work I have to make up for to keep the content fresh! I get better use out of taking a review week at a few pointed places in a one-year plan. But that is just me and my learner.

Have I mentioned you should get LC?

LOL I am very torn! ha ha The other commenter here mentioned Simply Classical coming out with a two year lesson guide for FFL. Do you think that might work just as well? I can honestly see LC being a challenge for all the reasons you've mentioned, lol. I'll be sure to make my decision before Free Shipping ends lol

[smithamykat]

I would also suggest doing Latina Christiana in 4th and First Form in 5th. LC is an introductory course, so it would be easier for you to teach as a first timer and easier for him to complete in a shorter amount of time than FFL. Also, everything learned in LC is reviewed in FFL, so that next year will provide an opportunity to solidify everything and be sure nothing was lost from LC before moving in to more complex topics.

[KrisTom]

I would also suggest doing Latina Christiana in 4th and First Form in 5th. LC is an introductory course, so it would be easier for you to teach as a first timer and easier for him to complete in a shorter amount of time than FFL. Also, everything learned in LC is reviewed in FFL, so that next year will provide an opportunity to solidify everything and be sure nothing was lost from LC before moving in to more complex topics.

Thank you! What are your thoughts on using an upcoming/available Simply Classical two year lesson plan guide for FFL (commenter above says this will be available spring/summer)? Though it'd be all new material, it would be a slower pace. Do you think that could help either of us? Or is everything "easier" about LC?

[smithamykat]

Thank you! What are your thoughts on using an upcoming/available Simply Classical two year lesson plan guide for FFL (commenter above says this will be available spring/summer)? Though it'd be all new material, it would be a slower pace. Do you think that could help either of us? Or is everything "easier" about LC?

Well, I would think LC would be a gentler introduction, especially for a 4th grader. But 2 years spent on FFL will accomplish the same thing, and I think it would be quite doable. Either way, I don't think your days need to be super long. The only "extra" that you are adding to the MP core workload is your other history curriculum, and you said that would be a light course. You can see I have kids around your kids' ages doing full MP cores (subbed Saxon math for the 2 oldest). We start around 9 a.m., take a break around noon for outside play, lunch, cleanup, read alouds and singing together, and even on days that we add an art lesson, they are almost never doing "school" past 3:30. I couldn't handle more myself :-)

[DiannaKennedy]

As someone who is plowing through FFL right now, I totally recommend LC! It would be a stiff introduction to Latin for a fourth grader without prior experience. We want them to love it, enjoy it, and want to do hard things, not feel overwhelmed. I have a friend teaching FFL (w/ no prior Latin) to her 7th grader, and he is doing well, but the maturity and developmental readiness is so much different at that age! My personal opinion is that a slowed-down pace of any of these Latin levels is just as much work because you have to work just as hard to maintain knowledge that you first were introduced to over a year prior...sometimes two years prior! And it's not that they don't have to have mastery at all points in the program, but using your knowledge in different translations and review periods is exactly what makes the information stick! To me, half the written work means more oral work I have to make up for to keep the content fresh! I get better use out of taking a review week at a few pointed places in a one-year plan. But that is just me and my learner.

Have I mentioned you should get LC?

Agreed. I even think that even for a fourth grader who's had LC, there's a significant jump in workload to FFL. My current third grader is giving me all kinds of angst in LC, and I know what looms in FFL. The maturity level helps SO much.

[Mom2mthj]

Well, I would think LC would be a gentler introduction, especially for a 4th grader. But 2 years spent on FFL will accomplish the same thing, and I think it would be quite doable. Either way, I don't think your days need to be super long. The only "extra" that you are adding to the MP core workload is your other history curriculum, and you said that would be a light course. You can see I have kids around your kids' ages doing full MP cores (subbed Saxon math for the 2 oldest). We start around 9 a.m., take a break around noon for outside play, lunch, cleanup, read alouds and singing together, and even on days that we add an art lesson, they are almost never doing "school" past 3:30. I couldn't handle more myself :-)

I would say yes and no that two years on first form Latin would accomplish the same thing as LC. First form covers much more material than LC. LC is an upper level overview and First Form starts getting deeper. I have my issues with Latina Christiana even after the update a few back...
1. The teacher instruction could be better. Some information in first form really should be pulled into the teacher help for LC. My daughter was happy just doing what was there, I would have liked to know where we were going.
2. The student book needs more space to write. The rewrite missed the opportunity to reformat the guide. We do it all on a whiteboard.
3. The game book for most kids is too hard for third grade for independent work and pulls in skills that are not covered in the student workbook. We skip the derivatives crossword and we do the grammar crossword together, but until I had been through part of FFL myself I really had no idea what to do (see number one). Feel free to save it for extra practice later on.
4. The review sheet book is great. Why oh why could those have been included in the student book. I hate the fumbling between books.
5. I haven’t watched the newest dvds, but the old ones were too long and too focused on the derivatives for the target age groups. Good news, you don’t really need them.

for fourth grade, I would work through LC as far as you can get in a year. Work on vocabulary and the basics of the grammar. Remember that mastery doesn’t mean your child completely understands what they are doing. For fifth grade, feel free to move onto first form. First Form is an amazing book, but I do think you will appreciate some time spent in LC before moving into first form.

[Mom2mthj]

I don’t want to land in edit jail, but unless you work over the summer First Form isn’t really set up for taking the summer off and starting again in the middle the next year. I don’t know what the SC plans do, but my guess is they work in lots of review that isn’t in the regular plans.

[KrisTom]

Well, I would think LC would be a gentler introduction, especially for a 4th grader. But 2 years spent on FFL will accomplish the same thing, and I think it would be quite doable. Either way, I don't think your days need to be super long. The only "extra" that you are adding to the MP core workload is your other history curriculum, and you said that would be a light course. You can see I have kids around your kids' ages doing full MP cores (subbed Saxon math for the 2 oldest). We start around 9 a.m., take a break around noon for outside play, lunch, cleanup, read alouds and singing together, and even on days that we add an art lesson, they are almost never doing "school" past 3:30. I couldn't handle more myself :-)

Okedoke, well, hopefully those 2 year plans will come out. Otherwise, I may have to think about just getting the LC. I'll try to message the company on Monday to find out. And thank you! I definitely don't want long days! he he

[KrisTom]

I don’t want to land in edit jail, but unless you work over the summer First Form isn’t really set up for taking the summer off and starting again in the middle the next year. I don’t know what the SC plans do, but my guess is they work in lots of review that isn’t in the regular plans.

I can imagine it would be hard to "restart after a couple of months, but if they work in lots of review, that wouldn't be a bad thing, either! I will see if I can touch base with someone on Monday. Thank you!