Recommendations for next year - 6th grade

[Kgreen]

We are taking our Christmas break right now, and with the slow down I've been reflecting on our first year of homeschooling so far - Overall it has gone well.

1. I am wondering if we switched to MPOA for 1 or 2 subjects next year, which ones should we do? In addition to the twins, I have a 1st grader, 3rd grader and a 2yo, and no local coop or cottage school options, so thinking that mpoa may be my only option to lighten my teaching load. Right now, my mom comes over 3 mornings a week and takes care of teaching all the math for my older 4, and my dad takes my 2yo with him 5 mornings a week. Their help has helped me to keep the stress level down and feel like I'm meeting most needs most days - they have been happy to help this year with the covid situation going on, but I'm not sure they anticipate continuing to help this intensely year after year, so I'm trying to imagine other ways to delegate.
Also, when (around what time of the year) do the mpoa classes become available to sign up and when do they fill up?

2. I am wondering how to transition latin, christian studies, and composition. Keep on at our current pace? Skip ahead?

Here is what we have been doing this year for our 5th grade twins:

Latina Christiana (at the 3rd grade pace)
Rod and Staff 5th grade - my mom comes over 3 mornings a week and teaches them this
Fable
Spelling workout F
Grammar Recitation 2
MP 5th grade literature
FMOR
Mammals
Geography 1
US Review
Timeline
Copybook Cursive
Christian Studies 1 (at the 3rd grade pace)

[Meadowlark]

When thinking about what you want to outsource, it may be helpful to think about which subjects require the most of you, and what you are least comfortable teaching. For me, that is math. Some may say Latin is a great one to outsource-however, I will offer another perspective. Looks like you have a lot of kiddos coming down the line. If you are going to homeschool all of them (and keep Latin) then that will quickly add up at $500 a pop. For me, it's been more than worth learning Latin right along with them. And I will add that it is 1000x easier to teach the second time around! I may outsource for Third Form but definitely not before that. I've heard many people say that writing is an area well worth outsourcing. I can't speak to that since we haven't used CC yet. Lit is "my thing" so I've never considered outsourcing that. I think it's really just up to you in what you'd rather take off your plate, and what your budget is. It's really just not an option for us to do MPOA before middle school-and even now, my 8th grader is only enrolled in one class (physical science). I'm not sure I understand your second question about how to transition. Christian Studies is an easy one-you just start and fold kids in as they get to 3rd grade We did CS 1 last year with younger kids just listening in (they learn a lot that way) and are doing CS 2 this year, again with the second grader at the table but not required to do any writing. HTH.

ETA: We do outsource math, but not with MPOA

[Kgreen]

Ok I see what you’re saying, so don’t worry about catching up the 5th graders just keep going on CS 1 at the 3rd grader’s pace and the older ones will move with the family to CS in 7th grade... I guess I could stop doing the Christian studies enrichment for the 1st grader separately, and move her to listening to us doing CS 1. Thanks for the suggestion!

[jen1134]

Agreeing with Meadowlark on how to choose classes. I’d also add that if you decide to outsource to MPOA between 6th and 8th grades, I’ve found that one class per year is ideal until you see how your family adjusts to it. Especially at those ages, you will still need to have oversight of class requirements and due dates. There’s also computer time management that comes into play. So in some ways you’re trading one responsibility for a different one. It’s definitely worth it when you’re juggling lots of people, but it’s important to go in realistically as well.

FWIW, we outsource Latin beginning in Third Form. If we can’t afford to do that with our next child, we’ll just take our time with the DVDs and ask lots of questions here, lol!

We also outsource composition beginning with Chreia, or Ref/Con at the latest. It’s totally doable on your own, but grading papers is my nemesis so outsourcing this relieves a ton of stress for me.

If budget allows, I outsource Novare science because I had no chemistry or physics in high school so I can’t answer even the most basic questions in those. If I can’t outsource, I ask questions of those who know more than I do. It’s not glamorous, but it’s how homeschoolers did things long before online classes or co-ops were available!

[enbateau]

I agree with meadowlark. I would be tempted to lean heavily on DVDs for certain subjects to free up a chunk of class time in which you can teach the younger kids, especially those who are learning to read. I have a routine of doing the eldest's main teaching for the new week on Fridays and Mondays. On Fridays, I introduce new spelling words so they can be copied for the first time over the weekend and get marinating. I also introduce new poems, Timeline dates, EGR rules, and try to read the CS verses from the Bible during our weekend devotional time. We might even do a Copybook verse the weekend before. On Monday, the new Latin lesson, math concepts, FMOR, CC, map review and lit reading and reviews get taught. I don't fit the younger one in at all that day other than to take 20 min to review phonics flashcards to date, math flashcards and some coin/counting/calendar concepts if I'm lucky. We might do a read-aloud book that night on the couch before bed, but we also might push it to another day. The youngest plays when I'm teaching my oldest or our new school mate during CC/EGR.

I'm saving MPOA for when a professional's expertise and enthusiasm will make the difference between us doing it or my child and I dreading it. I image I would want a pro for City of God or Dante or the last levels of CC in HS to make sure she has exposure to different writing teachers. I also might outsource HS science and calculus since it might excite my kids in a way that I wouldn't bring to it. The younger grades aren't a waste, especially if you have budgeted for that kind of expense, but I'm in the stage where I really am excited to learn along with my kids.

As to CS Enrichment, it's easy to play catch up at night if you don't get to it for a few weeks. My youngest will often ask me to read 3-4 sections of his favorite events of from The Story Bible anyway, so let the young ones sit in on the older ones' time, and if you get to the Story Bible every few weeks, huzzah.

[Kgreen]

That’s something to think about, I hadn’t considered the work of overseeing the online class. Does anyone have any thoughts on outsourcing the math to mpoa? Right now my mom handles that, so if she didn’t want to continue next year, I was wondering how doing that through mpoa might look.
Of all the subjects they are doing right now, Latin is the one I am least capable of teaching. But right now we all watch the LC videos together and haven’t had any problems just letting the video do all the teaching.
Should I continue on with the second half of Latina Christiana for their 6th grade year? Skip it and start First Form? Or try to finish LC at a faster pace starting this summer and delay starting First Form until they have finished LC?
And should I finish fable and let them do narrative for 6th grade or go ahead and switch to narrative now after a half year of fable and do only a half year of narrative?

[jen1134]

See notes in blue below:

That’s something to think about, I hadn’t considered the work of overseeing the online class. Does anyone have any thoughts on outsourcing the math to mpoa? Right now my mom handles that, so if she didn’t want to continue next year, I was wondering how doing that through mpoa might look.

We haven't used MPOA for Rod & Staff, so I'll have to let others speak to that.

Of all the subjects they are doing right now, Latin is the one I am least capable of teaching. But right now we all watch the LC videos together and haven’t had any problems just letting the video do all the teaching.
Should I continue on with the second half of Latina Christiana for their 6th grade year? Skip it and start First Form? Or try to finish LC at a faster pace starting this summer and delay starting First Form until they have finished LC?

You could really go either way here. First Form starts at the beginning in a very systematic way, so it doesn't require a student to have any prior Latin experience. Some things to consider:

• How are your kids doing with LC? Some older kids get frustrated with it's introductory approach since it's focused more on memory than understanding (appropriate for the younger years). If that's the case with your students, a switch to First Form next year might help with that.
• What is your goal for Latin study? We were latecomers to Latin, so my son started First Form in 7th grade. He completed the Forms in 10th and is now in Henle II (Caesar) in his junior year. He'll have another translation course next year which will give him a total of two years of translation before college. So, even if they don't start the Forms until 7th, they'll have lots of translation opportunities in high school. If, however, you (or they) want to have more translation in high school, then starting the Forms in 6th might help with that. I say might, because some students need to take two years for a particular Form...Third Form is the most difficult one. One of my sons has really struggled in Second Form (lots of reasons for that, most kids are fine), so even though he started the Forms at the "usual" time, he still won't finish them until 10th grade. But that's life. What matters is that he truly understands what he is studying, not whether he gets to a certain level by a certain time.

And should I finish fable and let them do narrative for 6th grade or go ahead and switch to narrative now after a half year of fable and do only a half year of narrative?

Again, you could go either way. If you feel they have had difficulty with Fable, then I would go ahead and finish the year (remember that the whole book doesn't get used in the lesson plans; remaining lessons are used for review in future years). If they are doing really well, you could move on to Narrative for the next semester. If you go that route, MP has lesson plans for a combined Fable/Narrative year. Those would let you know what lessons to complete in each book so you're not left wondering, "Did we miss something?"

[Kgreen]

That is so helpful! Thank you. They haven’t been frustrated with LC, and seem to enjoy it. It’s much more of a challenge for my 3rd grader, we couldn’t move any faster and keep them all together, so I am definitely looking to separate them next year. I’m not sure what my long term goals are for Latin. I’d never considered having them learn it until starting with MP. I’ve read a little about the benefits of Latin in elementary grades from articles here, and agree with the points they make about helping to understand English grammar better and improved reading comprehension from familiarity with Latin roots. Personally, I have no experience with foreign language study beyond the typical 2 years of high school French. But I’m curious to learn more about the reasons why people choose to continue on to high school/college level Latin/the transition from the forms to translation etc.

I will definitely call about those fable/narrative lesson plans. I didn’t realize there were certain fables more important to cover first and others left for review later.. thanks for your response!

[jen1134]

I'm glad it helped!

While there are tons of practical benefits to learning Latin, Latin and Greek were the core of education for centuries because they enabled students to read the great works of the past in their original languages. There are subtleties that get missed when a work is translated, and the biases of the translator can affect meaning as well, so you get a clearer picture of the author and their culture by reading a work in its original language.

One of my sons plans to major in Classics (a goal inspired by his time with MP and MPOA) so he was very excited to get to translation work. I would love for all my children to take translation classes, but our current requirement is that they must finish the Latin grammar (the Forms series) and then we can chat about whether they want to continue to translation or switch to a modern language.

Back to the utilitarian side of things, if a child is headed for history, philosophy, or theology in college, I would really encourage them to continue to translation work as it will give them greater access to primary sources. That being said, even many science works (Newton, etc) were written in Latin. From Britannica:

"Until the early 18th century, (emphasis mine) Latin was recognized as the best medium for historical and scientific work if it were intended to reach a European audience. For this reason Marsilio Ficino and Pico della Mirandola, Erasmus and [Thomas] More, and later Francis Bacon, Hugo Grotius, René Descartes, Benedict Spinoza, and Sir Isaac Newton used what was still an international language."

So if you want to know what they really said (not that all of the above are great reads), reading it in Latin is the way to go.