quick question about classical phonics word "quiet"

[sweetest]

On page 86 of Classical Phonics, quiet is listed as a word with the common vowel team of "ie" for the long i sound. I don't understand this. Doesn't the e in quiet make the "uh" sound, meaning the i is just a regular long i? Can someone explain this to me, or is it a typo? My son reads it as "quite", based on the fact that it's on this list, but the word is quiet, not quite... help?

[carriede]

I haven't used classical phonics... but with what I DO know about phonics, I'd split the syllables as "qui et". "qu" is a consonant phonograph, "i" says the long sound because it comes at the end of the syllable. "et" is the standard short vowel-consonant.

[Michelle T]

This was an interesting word to research. None of my phonic books list the word quiet under the heading of long i words spelled with the team ie. One of the books that Cheryl and I relied heavily upon has the entire list of words with the ie spelling for long i at the end of a root and didn't include quiet. This word is directly from Latin (genetive, quies- a lying still, rest, repose, peace) so the spelling is from there. I would explain to my child that this word is from a Latin word, and is syllabicated between the i and e. Vowel teams are not usually split when syllabicating and that e is definitely making an slight "uh/short e" sound as the first sound of the second syllable. For now we will blame it on the fact that it is a derivative and allow me more time to research why this word was included in CP under the team ie.

[sweetest]

I haven't used classical phonics... but with what I DO know about phonics, I'd split the syllables as "qui et". "qu" is a consonant phonograph, "i" says the long sound because it comes at the end of the syllable. "et" is the standard short vowel-consonant.

Yes, I understand all the other phonics but in the Classical Phonics book quiet is listed as having an ie spelling for long i. So "qu" "ie" "t"... which is not how the word is pronounced.

[sweetest]

This was an interesting word to research. None of my phonic books list the word quiet under the heading of long i words spelled with the team ie. One of the books that Cheryl and I relied heavily upon has the entire list of words with the ie spelling for long i at the end of a root and didn't include quiet. This word is directly from Latin (genetive, quies- a lying still, rest, repose, peace) so the spelling is from there. I would explain to my child that this word is from a Latin word, and is syllabicated between the i and e. Vowel teams are not usually split when syllabicating and that e is definitely making an slight "uh/short e" sound as the first sound of the second syllable. For now we will blame it on the fact that it is a derivative and allow me more time to research why this word was included in CP under the team ie.

In this particular context, I don't really see why it matters where the word was derived. I don't need him to be able to tell me why we spell it that way, I just need him to be able to read it. He knows what the word means, and I'm pretty sure if he had encountered the word in his reading, he would have read it correctly. It's only because he was reading it in a list of words that he had been told all had the long i sound spelled ie that he mispronounced it (he actually pronounced it correctly based on what the book was telling him to do). I wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something.

[tanya]

I feel like Cheryl threw words like that at the bottom of some of the lists so that we would talk about them with students. But we have reached out to someone who may know the answer. If she were here, I'm sure she would have an answer for why she did this! I remember "put" being in a list of short "u" words, and she just wanted students to be introduced to it. I feel like this may be the same thing. But what we should do is separate it with a space between it and the other "ie" words for clarity.

Tanya

[Michelle T]

You were not missing something. The reason I included all the Latin information was because I have been working on a spelling project and all that information is helpful to spellers but, you are correct, not so helpful to beginning readers. Please forgive the extra information. The word does follow the ie team sound but because the word has two syllables the e has double duty. That word was not included in early copies of CP. We will mark the proof. Just cross it off your copy so your son isn't confused.

[sweetest]

You were not missing something. The reason I included all the Latin information was because I have been working on a spelling project and all that information is helpful to spellers but, you are correct, not so helpful to beginning readers. Please forgive the extra information. The word does follow the ie team sound but because the word has two syllables the e has double duty. That word was not included in early copies of CP. We will mark the proof. Just cross it off your copy so your son isn't confused.

Ha, no worries. Interesting about the "ie" doing double duty, that makes a little more sense to me, but I'm not going to get into it with my 7 year old! I'll cross it off and make sure he can read it as a sight word. Thanks!

[sweetest]

I feel like Cheryl threw words like that at the bottom of some of the lists so that we would talk about them with students. But we have reached out to someone who may know the answer. If she were here, I'm sure she would have an answer for why she did this! I remember "put" being in a list of short "u" words, and she just wanted students to be introduced to it. I feel like this may be the same thing. But what we should do is separate it with a space between it and the other "ie" words for clarity.

Tanya

I was thinking maybe it was a regional pronunciation, but I've never heard quiet pronounced like quite. I have definitely heard put pronounced with a short u though, so that one makes sense to me!

[Michelle T]

It definitely has two syllables. Considering regional pronunciations is an entire other conversation.