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    Need advice for 8th/7th grade science

    Nothing like a good old Midwestern snowstorm to get one thinking about next year!

    Anyway, I'm confused about MP's science progression. I've read a lot of threads but I'm hoping someone can pop on and give me some advice for what to do next year and even the year after.

    My 6th and 7th graders are doing Birds and History of Medicine this year. They were coming from 2 years of public school and that's what MP recommended for us to do because one especially was interested in studying birds. It's going okay, but I have to admit-it feels a little light. We're knee deep in filling in a lot of gaps and so "light" is okay for this year. However, I'm thinking ahead to my son's 8th grade year (with the presumption that he'll head to public school for 9th), and I feel that we need to beef science up a bit. And so, what would you suggest knowing the following:

    He (the 7th grader) is very strong in language, and his weakest subject is math. He will be doing pre-algebra next year for 8th, but I'm anticipating it being a challenge for him because every year has been a challenge as far as math is concerned. The 6th grader is probably average to above in math.

    And so...I hesitate to combine and do the 7th grade science because it just doesn't seem like "enough" for 8th grade. And yet, the Novare physical science looks a little scary too. It would be awesome if I could keep the 7th and 8th graders together, but I'm not stuck on that. If they need to be separated, that's fine too. I actually own most of the Tiner books so I've considered using those as well.

    I guess I'm torn between 1) Doing Novare PS through MPOA, 2) doing Tiner with both teaching it myself, or 3) doing the MS science 1 or 2 with MPOA. Although if I'm honest, I'm not sure what MPOA could do with the Tiner books that I couldn't do here, since we're talking about $1000. Any insight on any of the MPOA classes or anything above would be most appreciated!

    #2
    Did we already talk about this, over on the WTM forums?

    We did MPOA MS Science I in 6th grade --- Medicine, Astronomy and Earth. (Tiner)
    MPOA Science II in 7th grade -- Bio, Chem, Physics (Tiner)
    This year, Rachel is in the MPOA for pre-algebra and Physical Science. Like your son, she's not the strongest in math, and it's always been a battle.

    I hashed it over with our instructor in the MPOA as well as Cindy in Indy before settling on Physical Science with the MPOA. It was also Rachel's choice. I was concerned about her math with PS, but so far, we haven't had any issues.

    Disclaimer --- I don't teach science in the early elem levels. I was stressed, and felt like I couldn't ever get to it, so we tabled it. I would rather do fewer subjects well, rather than spreading myself thinner.
    Waiting until middle school for formal science hasn't seemed to hurt us, for what it's worth.

    I would vote ----
    Novare for your 8th grader (MPOA)
    Tiner at home for your 7th grader. (Bio, Chem, Physics)
    Plans for 2019-20

    DD1 - 24 - College Grad and rocking her own bakery business
    DD2 - 13 - 8A Louisville HLS Cottage School and MPOA
    DS3 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
    DS4 - 11 - 4A Louisville HLS Cottage School
    DD5 - 7 - MP2, Louisville HLS Cottage School
    DS6 - 5 - MP K

    [url]www.thekennedyadventures.com/all-about-our-memoria-press-homeschool[/url]

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by DiannaKennedy View Post
      Did we already talk about this, over on the WTM forums?

      We did MPOA MS Science I in 6th grade --- Medicine, Astronomy and Earth. (Tiner)
      MPOA Science II in 7th grade -- Bio, Chem, Physics (Tiner)
      This year, Rachel is in the MPOA for pre-algebra and Physical Science. Like your son, she's not the strongest in math, and it's always been a battle.

      I hashed it over with our instructor in the MPOA as well as Cindy in Indy before settling on Physical Science with the MPOA. It was also Rachel's choice. I was concerned about her math with PS, but so far, we haven't had any issues.

      Disclaimer --- I don't teach science in the early elem levels. I was stressed, and felt like I couldn't ever get to it, so we tabled it. I would rather do fewer subjects well, rather than spreading myself thinner.
      Waiting until middle school for formal science hasn't seemed to hurt us, for what it's worth.

      I would vote ----
      Novare for your 8th grader (MPOA)
      Tiner at home for your 7th grader. (Bio, Chem, Physics)
      Yes Ma'am, you graciously chimed in over there too. Thank you! Because of your post, I am leaning towards Novare, but then again, am just a little scared. I am hoping maybe someone from MP will see this and chime in too, and any other experienced mamas out there who have gone through any science MPOA classes or just done it at home. I feel stretched pretty thin so it's just a matter of figuring out what classes will be best to push off my plate. Also, with an online type class-I do worry that it's online and yet I"ll be doing a LOT of review/reteaching on our own time. My son seems to just be kind of needy that way. Since this is his first year home after PS for two years, he hasn't really developed that autonomy that I would've been training him for. He's really good with anything language/reading oriented, but math and science he really needs hand holding. And so, I'm scared to pay $500 or whatever it is for something that I'm going to have to still teach at home. KWIM?

      Comment


        #4
        We haven't done Physical Science yet but it could be good prep for the math in high school level science. Cindy has mentioned that it explains unit conversions well. Another option would be Biology/Trees. It's really in-depth and even goes into some basic chemistry type things if you do the optional section on photosynthesis. Either one could be done at home and the boys could take them together.
        Jennifer
        Blog: [url]www.seekingdelectare.com[/url]

        DS16
        MP: Lit 10, VideoText Algebra
        MPOA: High School Comp. II
        HSC: Spanish I, Conceptual Physics, Modern European History, and electives

        DS15
        MP: Biology, Lit 10, VideoText Algebra, Greek Tragedies
        MPOA: High School Comp. II, Fourth Form Latin
        HSC: Modern European History

        DS12
        7M with:
        Second Form Latin, EGR III, and HSC for US History

        DS11
        SC Level 4

        DD9
        3A, with First Form Latin (long story!)

        DD7/8
        Still in SC Level 2

        DD 4/5
        SC Level C

        Comment


          #5
          Have you seen the physical science book from Novare? I like to get a copy of the text before deciding. I have not used Tinder, but have read parts of a couple of them. I think if I were trying to prep for a public school class the following year, Novare seems like the better bridge. If you decide on Tiner, I would do it at home. Novare really depends on whether you are going to commit to teaching it regularly. It can be done at home, but one thing I like about MPOA is it does keep on track some of the subjects that I tend to push aside when things get busy. So you really just need to know your style. I think a 7th and 8th grader could do it together.
          Dorinda

          For 2019-2020
          DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
          DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
          DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
          DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

          Comment


            #6
            We have done Novare Physical Science in the MPOA, and it was a great fit for my oldest. Since then, I have had two who preferred to do it themselves. It was still really doable. I would try to relax. These subjects create fear in us because of our own preconceptions. I don’t think that is warranted with the PS text.

            I would suggest signing your 8th grader up for the MPOA, and then having your 7th grader follow along. He might be able to check that box in 7th, and or he might then want to do it himself in 8th. But at least you are only handling one course - which might free up enough time for you if they still need your help.

            The Novare PS text is really just an introduction to high school level science. To compare, it’s like doing LC before the Forms. You don’t HAVE to do it, but it sure makes doing the Forms easier. And just like with LC, you have to remember to take it at face value. It will not explain every single thing in great detail (my kids wanted more!), but it gives them what they need to get started. Do your best to master it along the way, and call it good. I think that will be your best option, especially for a child who is expecting to go back to a physical school.

            AMDG,
            Sarah
            Last edited by KF2000; 01-18-2020, 09:12 AM.
            2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
            DD, 19, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
            DS, 16
            DD, 14
            DD, 12
            DD, 10
            DD, 8
            DD, 6
            +DS+
            DS, 2

            Comment


              #7
              My son is really young, so I have not used any of these books yet, though I own some of the Tiner books. But Novare also has an earth science you could consider if physical science seems too much.

              Comment


                #8
                My husband decided our children would go to public school for math and science to relieve the burden on us. Our fourth child will go to the high school part-time next year. She is studying some topics from Ellen McHenry's Basement like Protozoa, The Elements, and Carbon Chemistry. I decided these would be a fun introduction to some science topics. Another child studied a Physical Science course from Homeschool Connections before taking the same course at the public school. She said it wasn't necessary for her because the class was easy. I think anything you decide will be fine.
                Erica in SD
                Mother of 8
                DS 19 Sophomore in college, EE major
                DS 17 Senior 3 public school courses, Homeschool Connections
                DD 15 Sophmore 2 public school courses, Homeschool Connections and MP
                DD 13 MP and Homeschool Connections
                DS 10 MP Mix of 5 and 6
                DD 7 MP 2 and R&S 3
                DS 4 MP K
                DS Patrick died at 2mos in 2017 from sepsis. Born with Down Syndrome and hole in heart.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by GingerG View Post
                  My son is really young, so I have not used any of these books yet, though I own some of the Tiner books. But Novare also has an earth science you could consider if physical science seems too much.
                  To be honest, I found the earth science book to be harder (or at least a more satisfying treatment of the topics) than the physical science book. I liked it much better.
                  Dorinda

                  For 2019-2020
                  DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
                  DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
                  DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
                  DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

                  Comment


                    #10
                    The Physical Science book from Novare would be a great fit for a math phobic 8th grader preparing to go to public high school. It does a great job of explaining basic science concepts and teaching students how to *use* math effectively. No math skills are needed beyond basic 6th grade math skills. It teaches what you need to know and teaches it well and thoroughly. It is a good way to get some basic exposure to chemistry and physics before taking biology in high school which has some chemistry in it. Both your children could do it together and then the younger could so Earth science the next year.
                    Another choice would be to do Tress/Biology with both. This is a great introduction to basic biology ideas and would make high school biology slightly less intimidating with all its strange words. The Tress/biology class is easier to implement that Novare PS simply because it is that great MP style guide. Novare, while it has a great text, isn’t as teacher friendly. There are no workbooks and the quizzes, while great at leading to mastery, are a bit hard to print and grade (maybe the new edition has better support now? I know they are slowly publishing hard copies of these instead of the cds that are so hard to use).
                    Debbie- mom of 7, civil engineering grad, married to mechanical engineer
                    DD, 25, BFA '17 graphic design and illustration
                    DS, 23, BS '18 mechanical engineering
                    DS, 21, chemistry major
                    DS, 18, Physics major
                    DD, 15, dyslexic, 10th grade customizednMP plus co-op
                    DS, 12, super squirmy, possible dysgraphia, MP 7A
                    DD, 6 , K- finally one who seems to like drawing and writing- first one since my oldest!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You have already received many helpful suggestions. I would do Novare Physical Science at home with both (although you could enroll the older in MPOA, with the younger following along, as KF2000 suggested). Physical Science will give your 8th grader the best preparation for high school science. And Novare designed Physical Science to be used in 7th grade, so it will not be too difficult for either child.
                      The following year, you could do Earth Science with the younger child. (Or Trees with Tiner's Introduction to Biology).
                      Cindy Davis
                      Science and Math teacher at Highlands Latin School - Indianapolis
                      ds-25 college graduate: independent young adult
                      ds-24 college graduate: 2nd year med school
                      dd-22 college senior: Nursing

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by KF2000 View Post
                        We have done Novare Physical Science in the MPOA, and it was a great fit for my oldest. Since then, I have had two who preferred to do it themselves. It was still really doable. I would try to relax. These subjects create fear in us because of our own preconceptions. I don’t think that is warranted with the PS text.

                        I would suggest signing your 8th grader up for the MPOA, and then having your 7th grader follow along. He might be able to check that box in 7th, and or he might then want to do it himself in 8th. But at least you are only handling one course - which might free up enough time for you if they still need your help.

                        The Novare PS text is really just an introduction to high school level science. To compare, it’s like doing LC before the Forms. You don’t HAVE to do it, but it sure makes doing the Forms easier. And just like with LC, you have to remember to take it at face value. It will not explain every single thing in great detail (my kids wanted more!), but it gives them what they need to get started. Do your best to master it along the way, and call it good. I think that will be your best option, especially for a child who is expecting to go back to a physical school.

                        AMDG,
                        Sarah
                        Sarah,
                        Could you please tell me about how you did Novare PS on your own? I think part of my problem is that it is such unfamiliar territory for me. You know, no pretty MP guides or flashcards :-) What is a typical week like? What is a typical "day" of science? Is there a lot of math? Are there experiments? How much time would this require for ME? Anything you could share would be great. Plus,if I could really do it at home without too much pain (as someone mentioned above), then that might just work. My other option would be MPOA with the oldest and do Tiner or even Trees with my other guy.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I had memoria Press lesson plans which assigned reading sections and learning check questions, and quizzes. The book’s review sheets would tell kids what they needed to review for quizzes. I don’t remember if labs were scheduled, but we didn’t do all the suggested labs.
                          Dorinda

                          For 2019-2020
                          DD 16 - 11th with MPOA(AP Latin), Lukeion (Greek4 & Adv. NT Greek), Thinkwell (Economics and Chemistry), plus Pre-Calculus, American G’ment, Early Church History set, and British Lit
                          DS 14 - 8th with MPOA(Fourth Form), CLRC(Intro Lit and Comp), plus Algebra, Field Biology, Classical Studies 1
                          DS 11 - 6th with Right Start Level G online class
                          DS 6 - 1st with Prima Latina

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Meadowlark View Post

                            Sarah,
                            Could you please tell me about how you did Novare PS on your own? I think part of my problem is that it is such unfamiliar territory for me. You know, no pretty MP guides or flashcards :-) What is a typical week like? What is a typical "day" of science? Is there a lot of math? Are there experiments? How much time would this require for ME? Anything you could share would be great. Plus,if I could really do it at home without too much pain (as someone mentioned above), then that might just work. My other option would be MPOA with the oldest and do Tiner or even Trees with my other guy.
                            Sure...but it has differed for each different kid. Like I said, our oldest did MPOA...so that was a cake-walk. We had some labs to do, but the instructor provided them and we had to get just a few items for them. Child #2 started in MPOA, but really did not like the online class route. He constantly wanted to know everything about everything that was being presented, and I had to keep dialing him back to "this is just an introduction...you have to just go by what's being covered in the book." He basically read the book, followed up his questions on Khan academy and youtube, and called it a day. That year was a tough one in our family, so it was something I did not stress over too much. Which then led me to try to really make the effort with child #3, so for her, I used the Resource CD to the hilt...got everything all ready to go early on. Printed all the review worksheets, the answer key for the questions in the book, the quizzes/tests...everything they had, I got ready and we planned it out together of how to accomplish it each week. She had no trouble reading the book and doing most of the work herself so that when we checked in once or twice a week, we only had to go over specific things she found confusing. So she still approached it the same way she approaches all her work: she took the first crack at it and did what she could; then I looked that over, and we spent the majority of our time on the parts she needed help with.

                            If you want a weekly breakdown, this topic just came up on another thread in the high school forum...you might find it more helpful because it does get into specifics:

                            https://forum.memoriapress.com/forum...gh-school-help

                            Lastly, I would say - that yes, for many of us, hitting these upper grade level sciences makes us shake in our shoes because we either never had it ourselves, were never good out it ourselves, or it's been a really long time and we don't remember a thing from when we learned it. If this is indeed you, then there is nothing stopping you from pulling that book out now and reading it yourself. DO IT! I really recommend it! Because now that I am facing my 4th child using it next year, it's like anything else. I know it will not be a big deal at all because it's a great text and I know how we will use it. And I have been down the road of figuring out our rough spots three times already. So if it's your first time going through it, then don't let it be the first time. Read it yourself and get the kinks out. Spend your free time looking up unfamiliar things on youtube now so that when you do it again with your child, it's familiar rather than unfamiliar. Build up some layers of readiness. It's totally possible and doesn't have to be scary!

                            AMDG,
                            Sarah
                            2019-2020 - 9th Year with MP
                            DD, 19, Homeschool grad; Art major/philosophy minor
                            DS, 16
                            DD, 14
                            DD, 12
                            DD, 10
                            DD, 8
                            DD, 6
                            +DS+
                            DS, 2

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I just wanted to pop back on and say thanks to everyone who shared their experience and/or advice. I agree that I should definitely get my hands on the book and dig in. I guess if all else fails, Trees and Biology (and maybe another Tiner book?) might fit the bill too. We'll see!

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